Drinking?

[Kushiel]

Obviously i am aware that drinking is not forbiden by Jewish law, but as someone raised in a particualy "non-jewish" environment of working class australia, I was wondering if there was a specific prohibition to having perhaps a few too many drinks with some mates, for example having 8 or 10 beers at a pub with your mates on the weekend. Forgive my ignorance, but the parent i live with dosnt really care about Halakha either way so i'm pretty ignorant about the more complex issues.

[~Hanna~]

I know for a fact there is one particular Jewish Sect that allows getting drunk one day a year....

[Kushiel]

With me its more a case of once a weekend, like a good way to let off steam. I guess i should find a Rabbi and ask them.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Sorry to say you cant drink with gentiles socially.
 And to Hanna- its not a sect, everyone has a mitzva to drink a little on Purim, many drink a little, some get a little drunk, some just take a nap.
  And about even drinking at home, if your parents are not Shomer Shabb-t, you need to buy kosher (obviously) Wine that is MEVUSHAL, which is cooked or pasturized (not sure, but it will say Mevushal on the bottle).

[Zelhar]

Drinking culture is very foreign to the Jewish culture. In Israel we had very little alcoholism, and alcohol consumption is still much lower then in any western country. Things begun to change due to the immigration from Russia as the Russian Jews (and non Jews) brought with them a drinking culture. And also due to globalism, Young Israelis like to imitate the western habit of social drinking.

If you try to keep kosher, you should know that wine is not kosher unless it has a hechsher from rabbis. most other acloholic drinks like beer and spirits  are kosher.

[Kushiel]

I only drink wine at religious events, so that would be kosher, and  the beer and spirits are kosher in substance, but I can't drink them socially with my gentile friends.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I know for a fact there is one particular Jewish Sect that allows getting drunk one day a year....

Every Jew is supposed to get drunk in celebration on Purim.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It's not a particularly "Jewish" behavior to binge drink, and it's not healthy in the long run either.  But whether or not it is specifically forbidden to do it..... As Tzvi said, there is an issue of socially drinking with non Jews.  But I mean, this is not like a foundation of Jewish practice.   This is probably not one of the first things someone interested in spirituality should take on right away.  I get the impression that you are not particularly observant but are interested.   Asking a rabbi is always a good idea for any questions.  But this is not something major like, say, beginning to keep Shabbat, or keeping kosher, or putting on tefillin.  Those are kind of the basics that somebody should try and experience first, not driving oneself crazy with some of the smaller issues and stringencies.  Those areas will come in time.

  For instance your rabbi, if he knows you, or if you find one and explain the situation thoroughly and all the context about your interest in Jewish observance your background etc, might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life.  Maybe cut down on it a little bit, or not at all, or maybe take on something small first like saying shema or putting on tefillin to grow from there.  If you start with something like cutting out the social drinking/bar scene and make a radical change without taking on the more meaningful stuff, it might drive you away from Judaism where you might have otherwise grown tremendously, or worse, it might drive you insane! 

I would say talk to a rabbi.  The bottom line is you need to find a Rav who will get to know you well and help you grow at a pace that is comfortable and sane.

Outside of the Jewish context, in my opinion, you really should consider cutting down on the number of drinks you have when you go out.  In the long run that will be very unhealthy especially for the liver, and also the brain.  Try having only a few drinks sometimes.  It's just not a healthy lifestyle to binge drink like that all the time.

[Americanhero1]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

 might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life. 

 I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabb-t and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.

[Kushiel]

I

I get the impression that you are not particularly observant but are interested.   Asking a rabbi is always a good idea for any questions

Thats pretty much it, but I have been keeping Koshrut for about 5 months, but Shabbat isn't always easy and I'm not to sure about Teffelin, I mean I know what they are but I don't think I'm observant enough yet.

[Rubystars]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I'd like to hear the answer to this one too. Would this also mean that there couldn't be any mixed JTF barbecue?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

[Americanhero1]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I'd like to hear the answer to this one too. Would this also mean that there couldn't be any mixed JTF barbecue?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

YOUR 2OOOth  POST

[Americanhero1]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I'd like to hear the answer to this one too. Would this also mean that there couldn't be any mixed JTF barbecue?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

I had a guy I used to work with who drank with the rest of us at the christmas /Hanukkah party

[Rubystars]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I'd like to hear the answer to this one too. Would this also mean that there couldn't be any mixed JTF barbecue?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

I had a guy I used to work with who drank with the rest of us at the christmas /Hanukkah party

There is a wide range of religious observance among Jews. Some are a lot more strict than others.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

 might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life. 

 I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.

Tzvi.  I'm a BT.  I know many BT's.   I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before.   You cannot take on all things at once.  You cannot become religious over night.   I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

 might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life. 

 I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.

Tzvi.  I'm a BT.  I know many BT's.   I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before.   You cannot take on all things at once.  You cannot become religious over night.   I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!

 So am I. I didn't say take everything at once (although I have heard it said before), all I said was that that a (wise) Rav would not use that type of language. It is the type of talk that will not likly have good results. If one (who doesn't do anything for example, just found out that the Torah is EMET) then comes to a Rav, yes the first thing they would tell and teach him is to keep Shabb-t, Kosher, family purity, (also haircut, but that's by Shulhan Aruch which sounds wierd, but has a lot of meaning also), and THEN teach him other laws at a time. BUT in a situation where one asks a Rabbi- "Rabbi can I do sin X, or sin Y or sin Z" which Rav would have the right to say, "sure I understand, you didn't grow up religious so it is okay if you do X Y or Z".

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I

I get the impression that you are not particularly observant but are interested.   Asking a rabbi is always a good idea for any questions

Thats pretty much it, but I have been keeping Koshrut for about 5 months, but Shabbat isn't always easy and I'm not to sure about Teffelin, I mean I know what they are but I don't think I'm observant enough yet.

 Shabbat is a must, it is a life and death situation. Remember at the beginning you might feel that you are  suffering, but after maybe 3 or 4 Shabbat's (depending on each person) you will begin to love it, enjoy it + get a hugg reward for it.
 Tefillin is a very easy mitzva to fulfill and it has very great merit to it. Shabbat Brit and Tefillin are the covenent between the nation of Israel and G-d. Even if you are not praying the full prayers, or know how to read Hebrew, just putting it on for a few minutes and reading the Shema is a VERY great Mitzva, protection and will bring connection b/w you and Hashem. If for some reason one missis it in the morning, one can Bdiavad (if it already happened, put them on the whole day- while the sun is up).
     " but I don't think I'm observant enough yet"
  that's the bad side of humbleness. In this situation this type of humbleness is BAD. A Jew should never feel humble not to do a Mitzva, on the contrary, we should thank, praise, and feel proud to G-d for giving us the merit to fulfill His Mitzvot, and no Jew should feel either superior or inferior in being able to fulfill a Mitzva, nor should one be ashamed or shy to do a Mitzva in front of others.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

 Bottom line- the Real reason (actualy behind everything) is that it is G-d's will. He made the rules, we just have to follow them, He said something is assur (forbidden) then it is forbidden. But on a lower level where we can understand a little- as bad as this might sound (actualy not because I didn't make the rules, G-d did), eating and drinking together with other people creates a bond between them, if Jews socialize with their surroundings, first its eating and drinking, then the character and the way the Jew thinks and acts starts to change, and then the third step is the Jew giving his daugher and sons to his good buddy's son or daughter.
 Again this is not to degrade others, and doesn't mean that Jews should not show respect to others in society, on the contrary show respect when due, be good citizens, but dont do what G-d doesn't want you to do, which is intermarry and assimilate (which can and is on many levels not just marriage).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

 might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life. 

 I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.

Tzvi.  I'm a BT.  I know many BT's.   I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before.   You cannot take on all things at once.  You cannot become religious over night.   I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!

 all I said was that that a (wise) Rav would not use that type of language.

Tzvi, I said "the rabbi might say something like  "   and then said something.  If you think he wouldn't use my exact language, well I also think that!   Which is why I said it that way.

It is the type of talk that will not likly have good results. If one (who doesn't do anything for example, just found out that the Torah is EMET) then comes to a Rav, yes the first thing they would tell and teach him is to keep Shabbat, Kosher, family purity, (also haircut, but that's by Shulhan Aruch which sounds wierd, but has a lot of meaning also), and THEN teach him other laws at a time. BUT in a situation where one asks a Rabbi- "Rabbi can I do sin X, or sin Y or sin Z" which Rav would have the right to say, "sure I understand, you didn't grow up religious so it is okay if you do X Y or Z".

Tzvi, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about.   No rabbi says it's ok to sin.  But a Rav can at times give a leniency.  This will be done  (if he's a good Rav who knows what he's doing) especially often for someone who is on the path to becoming observant in cases where the Rav doesn't think the person is ready to take on certain things.  If it's somebody who is an 'eager-beaver' type who finds out all sorts of random halachot by reading online, being instructed by people who have no business telling them what to do, or being influenced by other BT's around them, or listening to various "Tzvi ben Roshel's" and their fear-mongering about 'terrible sins,' and then come to their Rav saying "hey is it true that I'm not allowed to _____"   or "is it true that I have to _____" any Rav who knows how to do kiruv will know that this person is on the road to eventual burnout if they don't calm the person down and urge them to take it slow.   They will discourage this person from taking on vastly complicated and stringent measures and try to ease them into Torah observance.  This is not a simple matter, Tzvi.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

And I am in no position to tell a person one way or another, but certainly, neither are you!   But I am merely speculating about what a rabbi might say, specifically to contrast your very brunt response.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I didn't bring up any stringencies, or even doing something one way and saying no you must do it the harder way, etc. BUT at the same time, I would like to see which Rav has the beitzim, and ignorance to say that any sin is allowed for a certain Jew who was brought up one way as opposed to another Jew brought up differently. Now, this is in regard to a sin, in regard to not doing a Mitzva (something positive as opposed to allowing something negative) then yes I also do believe that their might and will be stringencies, expecially in regard to DeRabbanim laws (and how much, etc. depending on the Rav).
 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I didn't bring up any stringencies, or even doing something one way and saying no you must do it the harder way, etc. BUT at the same time, I would like to see which Rav has the beitzim, and ignorance to say that any sin is allowed for a certain Jew who was brought up one way as opposed to another Jew brought up differently. Now, this is in regard to a sin, in regard to not doing a Mitzva (something positive as opposed to allowing something negative) then yes I also do believe that their might and will be stringencies, expecially in regard to DeRabbanim laws (and how much, etc. depending on the Rav).
 

Tzvi, like I said you have no idea what you're talking about.   Go look for beitzim somewhere else.   

[Zelhar]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

 Bottom line- the Real reason (actualy behind everything) is that it is G-d's will. He made the rules, we just have to follow them, He said something is assur (forbidden) then it is forbidden. But on a lower level where we can understand a little- as bad as this might sound (actualy not because I didn't make the rules, G-d did), eating and drinking together with other people creates a bond between them, if Jews socialize with their surroundings, first its eating and drinking, then the character and the way the Jew thinks and acts starts to change, and then the third step is the Jew giving his daugher and sons to his good buddy's son or daughter.
 Again this is not to degrade others, and doesn't mean that Jews should not show respect to others in society, on the contrary show respect when due, be good citizens, but dont do what G-d doesn't want you to do, which is intermarry and assimilate (which can and is on many levels not just marriage).

I never heard that it is forbidden to socialize with gentiles. I think It is not from deoraita. We can learn from the story of purim. The Jews participated in the feast of Ahashverosh. According to tradition this act angered God, but not because of the act of drinking and socializing but because it was a celebration for a foreign nation, so the Jews were happy to reside in exile rather than go back to Judea.

[Rubystars]

Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?

I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?

 Bottom line- the Real reason (actualy behind everything) is that it is G-d's will. He made the rules, we just have to follow them, He said something is assur (forbidden) then it is forbidden. But on a lower level where we can understand a little- as bad as this might sound (actualy not because I didn't make the rules, G-d did), eating and drinking together with other people creates a bond between them, if Jews socialize with their surroundings, first its eating and drinking, then the character and the way the Jew thinks and acts starts to change, and then the third step is the Jew giving his daugher and sons to his good buddy's son or daughter.
 Again this is not to degrade others, and doesn't mean that Jews should not show respect to others in society, on the contrary show respect when due, be good citizens, but dont do what G-d doesn't want you to do, which is intermarry and assimilate (which can and is on many levels not just marriage).

Thanks Tzvi. That's one reason I support racial segregation, because even though I think that different races can respect one another and there are good people in all races, I don't want them to melt together and lose their separate identities. I can certainly understand the concern about Jewish assimilation since that's such as issue for the Jewish community today, and Chaim and Kahane and others fought so hard to keep that from happening to the Soviet Jews.