Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Drinking?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on July 09, 2008, 10:30:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 10:11:18 PM ---
might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life.
--- End quote ---
I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi. I'm a BT. I know many BT's. I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before. You cannot take on all things at once. You cannot become religious over night. I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 11:00:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on July 09, 2008, 10:30:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 10:11:18 PM ---
might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life.
--- End quote ---
I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi. I'm a BT. I know many BT's. I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before. You cannot take on all things at once. You cannot become religious over night. I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!
--- End quote ---
So am I. I didn't say take everything at once (although I have heard it said before), all I said was that that a (wise) Rav would not use that type of language. It is the type of talk that will not likly have good results. If one (who doesn't do anything for example, just found out that the Torah is EMET) then comes to a Rav, yes the first thing they would tell and teach him is to keep Shabb-t, Kosher, family purity, (also haircut, but that's by Shulhan Aruch which sounds wierd, but has a lot of meaning also), and THEN teach him other laws at a time. BUT in a situation where one asks a Rabbi- "Rabbi can I do sin X, or sin Y or sin Z" which Rav would have the right to say, "sure I understand, you didn't grow up religious so it is okay if you do X Y or Z".
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Kushiel on July 09, 2008, 10:41:55 PM ---I
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 10:11:18 PM ---I get the impression that you are not particularly observant but are interested. Asking a rabbi is always a good idea for any questions
--- End quote ---
Thats pretty much it, but I have been keeping Koshrut for about 5 months, but Shabbat isn't always easy and I'm not to sure about Teffelin, I mean I know what they are but I don't think I'm observant enough yet.
--- End quote ---
Shabbat is a must, it is a life and death situation. Remember at the beginning you might feel that you are suffering, but after maybe 3 or 4 Shabbat's (depending on each person) you will begin to love it, enjoy it + get a hugg reward for it.
Tefillin is a very easy mitzva to fulfill and it has very great merit to it. Shabbat Brit and Tefillin are the covenent between the nation of Israel and G-d. Even if you are not praying the full prayers, or know how to read Hebrew, just putting it on for a few minutes and reading the Shema is a VERY great Mitzva, protection and will bring connection b/w you and Hashem. If for some reason one missis it in the morning, one can Bdiavad (if it already happened, put them on the whole day- while the sun is up).
" but I don't think I'm observant enough yet"
that's the bad side of humbleness. In this situation this type of humbleness is BAD. A Jew should never feel humble not to do a Mitzva, on the contrary, we should thank, praise, and feel proud to G-d for giving us the merit to fulfill His Mitzvot, and no Jew should feel either superior or inferior in being able to fulfill a Mitzva, nor should one be ashamed or shy to do a Mitzva in front of others.
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
--- Quote from: Rubystars on July 09, 2008, 10:53:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Americanhero on July 09, 2008, 10:11:52 PM ---Wait why cant jews drink with gentiles?
--- End quote ---
I think it might have something to do with not drinking things that could have been used to make offerings to idols, or something like that, but I'm not sure. Tzvi, could you shed some light on this for us please?
--- End quote ---
Bottom line- the Real reason (actualy behind everything) is that it is G-d's will. He made the rules, we just have to follow them, He said something is assur (forbidden) then it is forbidden. But on a lower level where we can understand a little- as bad as this might sound (actualy not because I didn't make the rules, G-d did), eating and drinking together with other people creates a bond between them, if Jews socialize with their surroundings, first its eating and drinking, then the character and the way the Jew thinks and acts starts to change, and then the third step is the Jew giving his daugher and sons to his good buddy's son or daughter.
Again this is not to degrade others, and doesn't mean that Jews should not show respect to others in society, on the contrary show respect when due, be good citizens, but dont do what G-d doesn't want you to do, which is intermarry and assimilate (which can and is on many levels not just marriage).
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on July 09, 2008, 11:28:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 11:00:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on July 09, 2008, 10:30:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on July 09, 2008, 10:11:18 PM ---
might tell you something like, if this is the way you socialize, and your way of winding down after work, and you would have no contact with any friends or no way of interacting with people if you suddenly stopped completely and this would make you totally unhappy, then don't go out of your way to completely cut this out of your life.
--- End quote ---
I dont think a Rav (a real one) would say anything like that. Maybe they would say when asked to right away start keeping Shabbat and concentrating the good inclination towards that and Koshrut and family purity (the essentials, but at the same time no one would say something like that because in effect it is saying that a sin (any, no matter how minor it might look) is okay, and this is a very bad attitude to have in life because one is accepting defeat and psychologically is ruining onself.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi. I'm a BT. I know many BT's. I know how my Rav has instructed me with certain things before. You cannot take on all things at once. You cannot become religious over night. I don't know what you are, but you sound insane!
--- End quote ---
all I said was that that a (wise) Rav would not use that type of language.
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, I said "the rabbi might say something like " and then said something. If you think he wouldn't use my exact language, well I also think that! Which is why I said it that way.
--- Quote ---
It is the type of talk that will not likly have good results. If one (who doesn't do anything for example, just found out that the Torah is EMET) then comes to a Rav, yes the first thing they would tell and teach him is to keep Shabbat, Kosher, family purity, (also haircut, but that's by Shulhan Aruch which sounds wierd, but has a lot of meaning also), and THEN teach him other laws at a time. BUT in a situation where one asks a Rabbi- "Rabbi can I do sin X, or sin Y or sin Z" which Rav would have the right to say, "sure I understand, you didn't grow up religious so it is okay if you do X Y or Z".
--- End quote ---
Tzvi, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about. No rabbi says it's ok to sin. But a Rav can at times give a leniency. This will be done (if he's a good Rav who knows what he's doing) especially often for someone who is on the path to becoming observant in cases where the Rav doesn't think the person is ready to take on certain things. If it's somebody who is an 'eager-beaver' type who finds out all sorts of random halachot by reading online, being instructed by people who have no business telling them what to do, or being influenced by other BT's around them, or listening to various "Tzvi ben Roshel's" and their fear-mongering about 'terrible sins,' and then come to their Rav saying "hey is it true that I'm not allowed to _____" or "is it true that I have to _____" any Rav who knows how to do kiruv will know that this person is on the road to eventual burnout if they don't calm the person down and urge them to take it slow. They will discourage this person from taking on vastly complicated and stringent measures and try to ease them into Torah observance. This is not a simple matter, Tzvi.
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