violence in the bible compared to violence in the quran

[q_q_]

I haven't looked at all the examples.. so can't give a full analysis myself. But

Chaim has been asked in the past.. And I have also heard this answer from a guy called Pete who runs a room on paltalk.
He said that the difference between them, is that in the bible, it says kill this people, for this reason.
In the Quran, it's kill the unbelievers.


An ask jtf poster distributing fliers, had arguments put to him about crusades, and also violence in the bible, and of jews and christians, of being just as bad.
Here is another point.
Some background- The bible has capital punishments. And violence against certain nations for certain reasons.
Regarding the capital punishments. 
 Christianity does not accept those laws, since they believe it is replaced.  Only jews accept jewish law. And  Jews have not done capital punishments for 2000 years, so it's just not the reality we live in.  And Orthodox Jews believe in the oral torah that says that these capital punishments require a temple and Sanhedrin , -  sanhedrin sit in the temple and make the decision.  We have no  sanhedrin, and no temple. (we have a group that call themselves the nascent sanhedrin, so even they recognise they are not a sanhedrin, they are hardly known about)
And even then, no sanhedrin did it more than once in 70 years.
It's just capital punishment. instant death, maybe not nicer than an electric chair, but quicker.
And the person being executed has to be warned before the crime, agree to the punishment. So it is more of a deterrent.

That is a totally different reality to Islam.
 its legally mandated capital punishments
are happening every day in arab/islammic countries. Women are being stoned to death, you can see videos on the internet.

Men - who perhaps are only stealing some food to feed their families - have their right hand chopped off (again, videos on the internet). And foot. As the quran describes.
And the barbarians doing it are shouting Allah Akbur.
Whether they are stoning a woman to death - woman half buried into the ground. Blood pouring through the white sheet she is covered in.
They basically half bury her, then stone her until the sheet is in blood and she is flopped down dead ready for a full burial.
And they enjoy it. They are in a frenzy over it.

It's like in Rome at a coliseum, except the victim is restrained-half buried into the ground or chained to something, and has no chance to even fight, and the audience directly participate in the killing.

These are legally mandated killings.. And Barbaric

Regarding the crusades.
I have nightmares about the crusades. Many jews were murdered, and chose to jump into fire rather than convert to christianity.. I can only imagine how parts of them were burning and a christian stood pushing a cross towards their face chanting the new testament, as if possessed. I find it scarier than the muslims.. They were cold like the nazis.
BUT.
This was centuries ago, it is not the reality we live in today.
And they were not killing jews in a way mandated or even inspired by the new testament.
So it is not comparable to islammic killings.

[briann]

Yes.  theres no comparison.

BTW, there is NO call for violence ANYWHERE in the New testament.  It is an extremely pacifist scripture.  Even my liberal atheist religious studies professor admitted to this.  So violence against non-christians By christians (IE inquisition, Constantine's wars) was done out of their OWN will... not the will of the bible.  There is nothing even remotely similar to Jihad in the New or Tanach.. and by contrast... The Koran and Mein Kampf are both filled with calls to kill those who do not follow the ideologies.

Brian

[q_q_]

Yes.  theres no comparison.

BTW, there is NO call for violence ANYWHERE in the New testament.  It is an extremely pacifist scripture.  Even my liberal atheist religious studies professor admitted to this.  So violence against non-christians By christians (IE inquisition, Constantine's wars) was done out of their OWN will... not the will of the bible.  There is nothing even remotely similar to Jihad in the New or Tanach .. and by contrast... The Koran and Mein Kampf are both filled with calls to kill those who do not follow the ideologies.

Brian

The jewish bible does have violence and capital punishment, as mentioned.
And there are big differences though , between it and the quran.

The reality is the main thing, and that is that jews and christians are not killing innocent people based on the bible.   The reality is that jews and christians are just doing basic self defence, and jews are doing the self defence necessary to remain in their land.

The reality at the moment, is
No capital punishments or divine instructions to kill a people.

Whereas the reality of islam, is ALWAYS capital punishments and divine instructions to kill unbelievers.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Yes.  theres no comparison.

BTW, there is NO call for violence ANYWHERE in the New testament.  It is an extremely pacifist scripture.  Even my liberal atheist religious studies professor admitted to this.  So violence against non-christians By christians (IE inquisition, Constantine's wars) was done out of their OWN will... not the will of the bible.  There is nothing even remotely similar to Jihad in the New or Tanach .. and by contrast... The Koran and Mein Kampf are both filled with calls to kill those who do not follow the ideologies.

Brian

The reality at the moment, is
No capital punishments or divine instructions to kill a people.

Whereas the reality of islam, is ALWAYS capital punishments and divine instructions to kill unbelievers.

 That is not a praise though. So what are we going to say once the Sanhedrin is established and it actually gives the death penalty to murderers, idolators, homo's and Shabb-t violators (all according to the proper Halacha of-course), but that is not going to make our society evil for making the Torah the law of the Land, even if it does instruct us to kill certain individuals.
 Our main objective to Islam isn't because it is necessarily violent, but because it is fake and violent at us.

[q_q_]

Yes.  theres no comparison.

BTW, there is NO call for violence ANYWHERE in the New testament.  It is an extremely pacifist scripture.  Even my liberal atheist religious studies professor admitted to this.  So violence against non-christians By christians (IE inquisition, Constantine's wars) was done out of their OWN will... not the will of the bible.  There is nothing even remotely similar to Jihad in the New or Tanach .. and by contrast... The Koran and Mein Kampf are both filled with calls to kill those who do not follow the ideologies.

Brian

The reality at the moment, is
No capital punishments or divine instructions to kill a people.

Whereas the reality of islam, is ALWAYS capital punishments and divine instructions to kill unbelievers.

 That is not a praise though. So what are we going to say once the Sanhedrin is established and it actually gives the death penalty to murderers, idolators, homo's and Shabbat violators (all according to the proper Halacha of-course), but that is not going to make our society evil for making the Torah the law of the Land, even if it does instruct us to kill certain individuals.
 Our main objective to Islam isn't because it is necessarily violent, but because it is fake and violent at us.

this is very true.

but it's good to be able to answer with universal arguments too.
The arabs are very good at it and get good PR from it. In truth, they only care about themselves. But to the media, they make general arguments about human rights.. Truthfully they only care about their own.

but you're right, and the particular argument, as them vs  western civilization, is a message that can spread throughout the western world too.

you are absolutely right..  your posts just get better and better. I've been agreeing with almost everything you've written for months!

[2honest]

Well no doubt that there are major differences between Christianity and Islam when it comes to violence.
If you want to know something about any religion you need to look at their founders. You rather look to the Vatican instead of Finnland when you want to know what the Catholic church teaches, right?

Jesus Christ is represetativ for Christianity as well as Mohammed is representative for Islam.
While Jesus taught to love Mohammed was responsible for several crimes.
In general one may get the impression that apart from the early phase of Islam in Mekka these two men seemed to act completely different.
Sources:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/founders.htm
http://www.carm.org/islam/Jesus_Muhammad.htm
This is why you don't see any violence in the New Testament while lots of orders to fight can be found in the Koran.
As far as The Tanach is concerned you indeed find violence there. However these commands were limited. For example G-d ordered his people to conquer the land of the Kanaanites. But it never said Fight those who don't believe in Allah nor... until they submit like in the Koran 9:29.

But I must admit that (from the christian point of view) death penalty for not complying with the rules according to Jewish law is hard to buy.

[q_q_]

<snip>

But I must admit that (from the christian point of view) death penalty for not complying with the rules according to Jewish law is hard to buy.

you have capital punishment in america..
for serious crimes between man and man.
And so crimes between man and G-d too. Law - in the "Tanach " is clearly considered very important.

But as mentioned, there are theological reasons why nobody is doing capital punishments currently. So the -reality- as regards such textuall sanctioned punishments, is only with islam.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Well no doubt that there are major differences between Christianity and Islam when it comes to violence.
If you want to know something about any religion you need to look at their founders. You rather look to the Vatican instead of Finnland when you want to know what the Catholic church teaches, right?

 Yea, but the Vatican is the one's who are the authorities of that religion. Infact I would say that most of what that religion is today is from the Vatican teachings and the council of Nicea instead of the "n" t. For example most christians belive that Jesus is G-d or son of G-d, or is G-d (G-d forbid), but the "n" t, doesn't teach that. At one point jesus calls himself the son of G-d, and he was about to be stonned, but then he tells the Jewish crouwd that he is nothing special, he is not a "special" son of G-d, but is like every other Jew, who are also called the Children of Hashe-m (as it says in the Torah, "You are the Children of G-d"). Besides that, their aren't other references to him being G-d, wheras most christians today, expecially catholics belive that he is G-d, or the trinity. (But its not in the "n"t so what are they following then, the "n" t or the vatican?)

[q_q_]

Well no doubt that there are major differences between Christianity and Islam when it comes to violence.
If you want to know something about any religion you need to look at their founders. You rather look to the Vatican instead of Finnland when you want to know what the Catholic church teaches, right?

 Yea, but the Vatican is the one's who are the authorities of that religion. Infact I would say that most of what that religion is today is from the Vatican teachings and the council of Nicea instead of the "n" t. For example most christians belive that Jesus is G-d or son of G-d, or is G-d (G-d forbid), but the "n" t, doesn't teach that. At one point jesus calls himself the son of G-d, and he was about to be stonned, but then he tells the Jewish crouwd that he is nothing special, he is not a "special" son of G-d, but is like every other Jew, who are also called the Children of Hashem (as it says in the Torah, "You are the Children of G-d"). Besides that, their aren't other references to him being G-d, wheras most christians today, expecially catholics belive that he is G-d, or the trinity. (But its not in the "n"t so what are they following then, the "n" t or the vatican?)

One should be careful ..  It is one thing asking a question. It is another, making theological statements about another religion, particularly controversial ones.

Just as it is not for christians to go around explaining or making comments jewish theology, as if they are an authority on it.

[2honest]

Yea, but the Vatican is the one's who are the authorities of that religion. Infact I would say that most of what that religion is today is from the Vatican teachings and the council of Nicea instead of the "n" t. For example most christians belive that Jesus is G-d or son of G-d, or is G-d (G-d forbid), but the "n" t, doesn't teach that. At one point jesus calls himself the son of G-d, and he was about to be stonned, but then he tells the Jewish crouwd that he is nothing special, he is not a "special" son of G-d, but is like every other Jew, who are also called the Children of Hashem (as it says in the Torah, "You are the Children of G-d"). Besides that, their aren't other references to him being G-d, wheras most christians today, expecially catholics belive that he is G-d, or the trinity. (But its not in the "n"t so what are they following then, the "n" t or the vatican?)

I thought there are even more references in the NT in regard to the Trinity, but to be honest I havent any at my hand, so you might be correct.

I agree with you that the Vatican has brought up things that can not be backed up by the bible. This is also the reason why especially evangelical Christians are very critical towards the Chatholic church.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Forget theory and look at practice.  Where on earth do you see Jews or Christians killing people for perceived slights?  Jews and Christians have scholars which interpret the bible, placing it in a cultural and social context.  That is why Judaism and Christianity are not as primitive and volatile as islam.

[2honest]

One should be careful ..  It is one thing asking a question. It is another, making theological statements about another religion, particularly controversial ones.

Just as it is not for christians to go around explaining or making comments jewish theology, as if they are an authority on it.

But isn't this to a certain extend also valid in regard to Islam.
Muslim apologists will say Islam isn't that violent these verses just describe what happend at a certain time/place. So what happens is that if you want to agrue with them you'll have to look into and interpret islamic theology.
Then they will say, who are you to tell us how Islam works?

See what I mean?

[q_q_]

One should be careful ..  It is one thing asking a question. It is another, making theological statements about another religion, particularly controversial ones.

Just as it is not for christians to go around explaining or making comments jewish theology, as if they are an authority on it.

But isn't this to a certain extend also valid in regard to Islam.
Muslim apologists will say Islam isn't that violent these verses just describe what happend at a certain time/place. So what happens is that if you want to agrue with them you'll have to look into and interpret islamic theology.
Then they will say, who are you to tell us how Islam works?

See what I mean?

I learnt alot about islam asking muslims. (not that I recommend it, but I was in a muslim area and had little to do, and they were obsessed with it)

You can merely quote the quran and hadith, and tafsir- islammic scholars in their own words.  e.g. Ibn kathir, their main scholar.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Forget theory and look at practice.  Where on earth do you see Jews or Christians killing people for perceived slights?  Jews and Christians have scholars which interpret the bible, placing it in a cultural and social context.  That is why Judaism and Christianity are not as primitive and volatile as islam.

 Christians- for the past 2,000 years.
  Jews- When entering the land of Israel, when about to be attacked by nazi's in Babylon, and a few other times. (Which I do not object to at all).

 I have said this before, (look at my first post in this thread). As a Jew I do not care what necessarily if muslims for example call somebody a prophet (which is ironic since he hasn't given 1 prophecy, not even a false one) and choose to follw him, as long as what they are doing does not affect (either by them wanting to kill or convert) me, my family or my people, I simply could care less. BUT when their false teachings affects my and the one's I love then they are my enemy, and I could care less about if they are interpreting their scriptures the right way or not, bottom line they are attacking and should be attacked back.
 

[q_q_]

Forget theory and look at practice.  Where on earth do you see Jews or Christians killing people for perceived slights?  Jews and Christians have scholars which interpret the bible, placing it in a cultural and social context.  That is why Judaism and Christianity are not as primitive and volatile as islam.

You are not grasping what either I or Tzvi wrote. 

Jws have theological reasons for not doing capital punishments. It is not that they are from a "primitive" time and not applicable today because it is too "primitive".
Christians too have theological reasons.

So don't worry your religiously-liberal head about it