Religious fanaticism

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I do think though that he is not interested in any answer for us. He is, like I said, a cheerleader for jihad. He thinks that Muslim Nazis are a much more minor threat than those evil fundamentalist Christians and Jews, if indeed one at all, and generally people like him think that Muslims are being oppressed by Christians and Jews (like the feminazis do).

But you had a very good point too--that atheists historically have perpetrated horrible atrocities and even holocausts. (Of course, many Nazis were not atheists, but rather polytheists.)

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?

Well I certainly can, but he follows the same pattern as previous trolls.  They say "you know I really liked this movement until..."  or "I watched this forum for a long time". ...... but "you're just like the Muslims, so you don't have a right to criticize them"       A shallow argument with no substance and obviously what he was getting at the whole time was "stop criticizing Islam" without all the show and demonstration about his agnosticism and watching the forum etc...

Agnostic needs to understand that straw man arguments won't work.  Calling us 'criminal religious fanatics" is a straw man and an insult.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.

Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.

1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?

[agnostic]

I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?

He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".

You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?

[Shamgar]

I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?

He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".

You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?

But the Bible doesn't say that...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?

He is insulting us. He called us a bunch of "criminals".

You called me a lying pig first and said I said Christian fundamentalists are worse than Islamists. I never used the word Islamists and never said you're worse. I said "you're no so different," and you aren't. Let me ask you this: If your Bible said exterminate all agnostics or atheists would you do so?

This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.

[MasterWolf1]

You do realize this is a religious site and yet you come in here trying to put your Stalinist beliefs and you expect everyone to follow along then you are just coming her to waste your time.  Go to some commie site they will love you goofball.

[Shamgar]

I think when someone like agnostic joins our forum, we should have a civilized debate with him without insults. We will not compromise on our principles, but why can't we debate issues intelligently?

Note to self, nice to Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Agnostics. Mean to Muzzies and Nazzis.

OK after reading other post, I am adding United Nations to Mean list.

[agnostic]

No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.

Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.

1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?

1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that I'm their cheerleader.
2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.

You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.

[agnostic]

This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.

I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.

Okay, I will. I will ask you two questions.

1: When was the last time you heard of a follower of Jerry Falwell strapping on a backpack full of dynamite and detonating himself inside a synagogue or mosque?
2: When was the last time you were threatened with death for making pro-atheistic posts in this right-wing, fundamentalist Christian nation?

1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that that I'm their cheerleader.
2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.

You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.

At JTF, we do not hate science or western civilization.  Precisely the opposite.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

agnostic, in your post above, you forgot to mention what happened when your fellow agnostics/atheists seized power in Russia, China and numerous Third World countries. You forgot to mention how the Marxists murdered or starved to death tens of millions of men, women and children. You forgot to mention how the "enlightened" agnostics/atheists brutally enslaved all of their subjects.

You also forgot to mention that many of the leading Nazis in Hitler's Germany were agnostics/atheists. These highly enlightened National Socialists also sought to eliminate the "darkness" of the "primitive" Bible.

Just thought that I would add these historical footnotes which never seem to appear when people study religion in universities and colleges.

How do you know that I'm a socialist? I despise socialism and Communism. Why do you people jump to conclusions so quickly? The Nazis were criminals, the communists are criminals and the religious fanatics are criminals. No one is counteracting any of the points I made in my first post.

I didn't say you're a socialist. But the Nazis and the Communists were agnostics and atheists. So if you feel that eliminating religion is a solution, think again.

Also, since you lump us together with the murderers who carried out the inquisitions and the crusades just because we are religious, I think it is only fair to lump you together with the most powerful agnostic/atheist movements in history, namely Communism and Nazism. If you don't like the comparison, then don't compare us to crusaders, inquisitors and Muslim fanatics.

[AsheDina]

  Gee- I hardly ever talk about islam, except when I am very angry that a muslim is running for Pres of the USA. I am not going to change either, and I am not the most religious person at all.  I saw what islam did on 9/11 in NY, where I was, like other people here.  I have not, nor do I intend to 'kill any muslims' -I do have to ask though- I just DONT get it- When I came to this forum and didnt even write a topic for a long time, and I am careful when I do, Why did you do that? I am just curious. I think that if you were coming here for awhile, why didnt you just write peoples names down that you thought were 'fanatical' so that you could have questioned THEM? Just curious.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

1. We agree the Muslims are worse. Stop your nonsense that that I'm their cheerleader.

Everybody knows you believe the complete opposite of that. Nice try.

2. This is a secular nation founded by Protestants. If it were run by the Catholic fanatics who burned scientists alive I would be threatened.

Nice try to divide our members like that. We ain't gonna fall for that. But just to humor you, tell me when the last time was that the government of Ireland put someone to death for converting to Baptism or Lutheranism.  

You should thank the Atheists for using science and technological wizardry to make the West powerful enough to thwart the Muslims. Before the renaissance the Muslims were a serious threat and now they aren't militarily.

Once again you are trying to argue that the nice, misunderstood Muzzies are no danger to us. BS. Go over to the Hamas forum and I am sure they will appreciate your defenses of Islam.

[agnostic]

Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi. A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.

[Shamgar]

 
Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

Scientists who Believed in God. (mentions Catholic Churh)
Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and urged Copernicus to publish it around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity."

[ItalianZionist]

Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

Great point Chaim. Many agnostics/atheists are always stuck on the Middle Ages because they can't bring up any modern-day instances where Jews or true christians have killed others in the name of religion. But we MOST CERTAINLY have examples where muslims kill others of different faiths...Buddists, Hindus, Jews, Christians...THERE'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CHRISTIANITY/JUDAISM AND ISLAM IN A NUTSHELL "agnostic"... Islam still kills in the name of religion...Jews never did.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.

I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?

 Convert to Judaism (or be a Noahide). Just because someone was born into 1 religion or another does not mean that he or she must be in that religion. I am not trying my best to follow the Laws of Judaism, just because my parents are jewish (although it gives a head start, since you then investigate into the proofs, etc.) I follow the Torah because of the many proofs and no disproves out their. If Judaism would be false, why would anyone follow it, only putting ristrictions on onself, (I mean I love to do m/itzvot, but it is only because I know it connects with G-d, but if someone proves their is no G-d, G-d forbid then their would be no point in following the Laws).
  So basically I and will follow what G-d says in the Torah since I am convinced without any doubt, after the Hundreds of proofs. And if someone comes along and disproves Judaism, then as Rav Mizrachi says - "Ill  order a cheeseburger in burger king, on Yom kippur and ill pay the bill."  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This is a silly hypothetical argument because my Bible doesn't say that.

I knew you'd say that. What if you were born into a religion like Islam which does promote this. What would you do then?

If it was a false religion like Islam I'd try as best I could to escape it. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi.

RACIST.    And untrue.

A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.

What researcher and what proof of this?   Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement.   His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either.   He is not a scientist.   But maybe you are referring to someone else.

[Americanhero1]

Atheists/agnostics are not responsible for scientific progress. In atheist nations such as the Soviet Union and Communist China, science lags far behind. Although some scientists foolishly choose to become atheists, their successes are only because they were educated in societies that had a religious foundation.

Not to mention the incredible Jewish contribution to science. Why are Jews so smart? Are they genetically superior? Of course not! It's because of the Torah way of life that instills in them the thirst for knowledge.

The Ashkenazi obviously are vastly genetically superior to non-Ashkenazi.

RACIST.    And untrue.

A study conducted at the U linking Jewish intelligence and genetic mutation with natural selection conducted a study and according to it, Ashkenazi Jews of European descent have high intelligence as well as genetic mutations such as sickle cell anemia due to selective mating and as non-menial work over a number of generations. The Ashkenazi were restricted to entrepreneurial and managerial roles as financiers, estate managers, tax farmers and merchants. As a result, the Ashkenazi Jews developed higher cognitive and verbal skills compared with other groups of the time, the researchers reported. That's why their IQ is much higher than their Sefardic counterparts.

What researcher and what proof of this?   Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement.   His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either.   He is not a scientist.   But maybe you are referring to someone else.

Am I the only one to see the capital U in his response ask the Serbs what that signifies

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Furthermore, your argument about 'acquired skills' is in complete opposition to one of the basic Darwinian principles.  It is absurd to suggest that by "acquiring higher cognitive and verbal skills" in one's lifetime, they then ensure a "genetic superiority" for their future offspring.   You said you are in science?  

[agnostic]

What researcher and what proof of this?   Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement.   His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either.   He is not a scientist.   But maybe you are referring to someone else.

Then how do you explain the IQ gap between Ashkenazim and Sephardim? Don't give me the nonsense of culturally biased tests otherwise the Blacks can use that excuse.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What researcher and what proof of this?   Usually it is charlatans like john entine and their pseudoscience that support this theory only as a shill for the eugenics movement.   His other work has been thoroughly debunked, so I doubt his "abraham's children" book has any real science either.   He is not a scientist.   But maybe you are referring to someone else.

Then how do you explain the IQ gap between Ashkenazim and Sefaradim? Don't give me the nonsense of culturally biased tests otherwise the Blacks can use that excuse.

It's a valid  "excuse" for the blacks as well.  In my opinion, IQ tests don't mean squat.