Orthodox Serbs saving Jews during WW2

[Serbian Canadian]

Mario, most of the Serbs during WWII were anti-Nazis. But you have to realize that once the Germans occupied a country, the government had very little choice. They had two choices: either co-operate or suffer the consequences. With that being said, the Serbs did their best to resist the Nazi invasion. Belgrade had already been bombed by Hitler and it would have been unreasonable to continue sacrificing the lives of innocent civilians. 

About the photo. How much do we know about it? Where was it taken? Under which circumstances? Remember that a photograph can be portrayed in ways to adhere to all kinds of particular beliefs. It may very well be that the chetniks co-operated with the Nazis. It may not be true. On what basis? It could have been an attempt to deceive the Germans. History provides different accounts.

The article is very suspicious, objective and clearly biased. Perhaps even comical. The author keeps referring to the Serbian radical party as the "neo-Nazi Serbian Radical Party" which is quite insulting not just to Jews but to the entire world. He calls Kosovo "Kosov-a", even though Kosovo is a Serbian word. For most of the article, he talks about Momcilo Djucic, whom I've never heard of before. He talks about his crimes and almost compares them to the same level as Hitler. He compares the relationship of Vojislav Kostunica and Vladimir Putin to that of Mussolini and Hitler.

I think the author in his own words best describes his legitimacy in his own words: "I have been variously accused of being a...Croat nationalist and a supporter of..Islamism imperialism. Depending on how you define these terms, some or all of this may be accurate." In other words, a mule has more credibility than him.

[Mario]

Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.

Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?

Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.

What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers?? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up

For EXAMPLE, it explains WHY someone would post something like that.

Ohoho, "grow up", eh?

And you LEARN HISTORY, to see why Serbs NEVER can be friends to Germans.

As for Nazism, you should BETTER SHUT UP!

Shut up, wow thats mature. Thanks for joining the enlightend debate.

No not all serbs, but some were. Hey dont feel bad Italy and Spain also made the unfortunate alliance with Hitlers Germany.

[Mario]

Mario, most of the Serbs during WWII were anti-Nazis. But you have to realize that once the Germans occupied a country, the government had very little choice. They had two choices: either co-operate or suffer the consequences. With that being said, the Serbs did their best to resist the Nazi invasion. Belgrade had already been bombed by Hitler and it would have been unreasonable to continue sacrificing the lives of innocent civilians. 

About the photo. How much do we know about it? Where was it taken? Under which circumstances? Remember that a photograph can be portrayed in ways to adhere to all kinds of particular beliefs. It may very well be that the chetniks co-operated with the Nazis. It may not be true. On what basis? It could have been an attempt to deceive the Germans. History provides different accounts.

The article is very suspicious, objective and clearly biased. Perhaps even comical. The author keeps referring to the Serbian radical party as the "neo-Nazi Serbian Radical Party" which is quite insulting not just to Jews but to the entire world. He calls Kosovo "Kosov-a", even though Kosovo is a Serbian word. For most of the article, he talks about Momcilo Djucic, whom I've never heard of before. He talks about his crimes and almost compares them to the same level as Hitler. He compares the relationship of Vojislav Kostunica and Vladimir Putin to that of Mussolini and Hitler.

I think the author in his own words best describes his legitimacy in his own words: "I have been variously accused of being a...Croat nationalist and a supporter of..Islamism imperialism. Depending on how you define these terms, some or all of this may be accurate." In other words, a mule has more credibility than him.

Hey man thats your opinion, take it with a grain of salt. I didnt take the damn picture. All im saying is I dont like how Dado was attacked when he was kinda right.

[sonja_yu]

Think what you want I think those pictures speak for themselves.

Im joining this forum because I want to talk about issues. Is that ok with you?

Sorry people, I can't find the link, but, please, who has it, please show this idiot the newspaper article which has "Germany has job for all" and "You'll disappear if Bolshevism wins" and than introduce him a little bit with Mein Kamf, to explain him what EXACTLY, IN REALITY that article was supposed to mean/
It was written by GERMANS, on Serbian language, by SERBIAN CYRILLIC alphabet.
He obviously doesn't know much about modern war tactics.
New ages call for new methods, my dear, Mario.

What the hell does have to do with Serbian sodiers posing with Nazi soldiers?? What were they forced at gun point cmon, grow up

For EXAMPLE, it explains WHY someone would post something like that.

Ohoho, "grow up", eh?

And you LEARN HISTORY, to see why Serbs NEVER can be friends to Germans.

As for Nazism, you should BETTER SHUT UP!

Shut up, wow thats mature. Thanks for joining the enlightend debate.

No not all serbs, but some were. Hey dont feel bad Italy and Spain also made the unfortunate alliance with Hitlers Germany.

GERMANY is one of the most Anti-Serb nations ever!
They had almost exterminated the Serbs in WWI and were supporting the same in WWII.
GO LEARN SOME ISTORY!
When, for the first time after WWII, a German soldier was on the ground, shooting, shot and killed, he killed a Serb!
Germans had always seen Slavs as something "below".
Not to mention the History of Austro-Hungarian Empire.
Even in Mein Kampf, Serbs and other Slavs had been described as "good for work", meaning cheap labor, meaning, inferior and there to be a slave of the "superior".
Serbia was military occupied by Germany. They ran all the institutions (including cinemas, newspapers and post-offices). They (the GERMANS) were the ones doing the dirty job there.
For one dead Nazi, they had killed 100 people.
They were taking children out of their classes and were shooting them.
Serbia was thorn into pieces. The territory of present-day Serbia was divided between 5 countries.
The territory my family comes from was occupied by Bulgaria. They were just ordinary peasants above whose fields were low-flying bombers.
Those traitors were nothing other but foreign puppets. There was one small group that was not much pro-German, but just needed gain. They did nothing, just let Germans kill their own people.
Find ONE concentration camp ran by Serbs.
Some 1,000,000 Serbs died in WWII and you STILL DARE TO CALL THEM   N A Z I S
Be happy that Internet exists and that you aren't telling this in our faces!

[Serbian Canadian]

You're comparing Mussollini's Fascist Italy with Serbia? Are you plain ignorant or are you just trying to stir the pot?

[sonja_yu]

You want enlightened conversation?
I'm giving you an endless conversation!

[Mario]

hardly.


Im not trying to stir the pot. Like I said before I was just backing Dado's original claim. Why cant you guys handle that? You keep attacking me like you have something to hide.

[Jasmina]

  All we have to hide is members like you!

[Lisa]

Mario has been banned.

[sonja_yu]

Mario has been banned.

WHY??? 

[Jasmina]

 Chaim Ben Pesach:

     "This animal keeps referring to Serb heroes as "war criminals". Serb soldiers who fight valiantly against the Islamic Nazi invaders of Europe are "war criminals"?!

Mario wrote some Italian curse words on one of his posts. So he may be a Croat or an Albanian living in Italy". 

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,33423.0.html

....That's why...

[sonja_yu]

 Chaim Ben Pesach:

     "This animal keeps referring to Serb heroes as "war criminals". Serb soldiers who fight valiantly against the Islamic Nazi invaders of Europe are "war criminals"?!

Mario wrote some Italian curse words on one of his posts. So he may be a Croat or an Albanian living in Italy". 

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,33423.0.html

....That's why...

I saw that.

[Saint Sava]

Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.

Meytav  Haichulim!

I can't believe 60years old communist propaganda can be found through the fingers of a JTF-er.
Especially this:

In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable.

[Jasmina]

Well I really can't agree for the most part it is untrue! The real people working for the protection of Jews and combined Jews in their forces was the Partisans including of course the famous Moshe Pyade Tito's right hand man. Croatia's disgusting policy on following Hitler and the Utashe movement, and Serbian Cetniks same Bartering of Nazi favors and interests at certain times made Belgrade the first European city to be classified as Judenfrei.....In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable. Please note Jakov Sedlar a jewish man from Split who devoted time amongst his career of high level film production to outline the fallacy of Serbian protection and support of the jews...I know that this article will come across unpopular but please enlighten me if you feel it is incorrect.

Meytav  Haichulim!

I can't believe 60years old communist propaganda can be found through the fingers of a JTF-er.
Especially this:

In conclusion Cetniks can not be seen as the good guys only perhaps a lesser evil than the Ustase still suffering from blind nationalism and selfish ethnic interests of course each side has their isolated cases of integrity amongst the ranks of evildoers those that joined sides for goals other than those we realise to be totally unacceptable.

  Dado was banned!

[Jakov]

This is...

[Jasmina]

This is...

  What?

[Jakov]

That is the problem.I dont know what follows 'is'.

[Dado]

Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sephardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........

 

[Beograd]

Andrija Hebrang is SHAME for every Jew.
"On 16 may 2009 Austrian police intervened today at Bleiburg over a group of young men dressed in black uniforms, Zagreb’s Jutarnji list daily reported. According to sources, the young men disturbed order and peace by loud singing and shouting, disrupting the commemoration of the victims of Bleiburg which was taking place at the time.

Croatia’s Interior Minister Tomislav Karamarko said that, unfortunately, signs of Nazi times in Croatia were appearing in Bleiburg. Nazi symbols are also forbidden by law in Austria.

Around nine thousand people gathered at Bleiburg to commemorate the victims of Bleiburg. One of those present was the Croatian Democratic Union’s (HDZ) ANDRIJA HEBRANG, who ascertained that Croatia was lying on the bones of innocent civilians, on a crime which cannot be forgiven".

36 members of Hebrang’s family were killed in Jasenovac, his brother who was 9 or 10, his grandfather and grandmother, but because they were Jewsand now Hebrang support Ustashe in Blaiburg.

Picture from Blaiburg this zear

[Beograd]

http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587953
http://www.javno.com/en/foto.php?id=18&rbr=14011&idrf=587964
Pictures Blaiburg Ustashe and Hebrang

[4International]

"Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers..."
 

Sorry to burst your bubble but since you were not here for such a long time how can you write such uninformed nonsense?

Mario was banned not for the reasons you allege; he was not banned because we don't like debate, He was banned because he came on the forum masquerading as an Italian whilst arrogantly making "blood libel" type of accusations against the Serbs on every single one of his posts.

He was consistently stirring up trouble here on the forum, deliberately trying to create division between our Serbian and Jewish members. He was lying about the Serbs every chance he got, behaving like a typical troll: in other words he was making a complete moron out of himself.

He deserved to be banned by our administrators who made the correct decision.

PS: Andrija Hebrang was a typical Nazi Ustasha supporter. So what if he was born a Jew? Self-hating Jews like him are a disgrace.

[4International]

Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........
 

Tito's Communist Partisans did not even begin fighting the German Nazis until well after Operation Barbarossa [the attack on the Soviet Union by Hitler's Third Reich]. It is now documented that Tito's Communist Partisans were also on many occasions refusing to fight against the Germans because they preferred fighting Mihajlovic's Serbian Royalist Chetniks in a brutal civil war which raged alongside the German occupation.

I suggest you read the book "The Web of Disinformation: Churchill's Yugoslav Blunder" by David Martin.

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Jan1995.htm

Many Albanians spread their "we saved the Jews from the Nazis during the Holocaust!" baloney to numerous unsuspecting and historically ignorant liberal/leftist Jews on internet discussion forums. Baruch Hashem, JTF is NOT one of these historically ignorant leftist forums!


Albanian prime minister Mustafa Kruja, in a June, 1942 speech made in Kosovo, [at that time part of a fascist Greater Albania] then called the “New Albania”, stated:
 
(Start Quote)
 
“The Serbian population of Kosovo should be removed as soon as possible.All indigenous Serbs should be qualified as colonists and as such, via the Albanian and Italian government, be sent to concentration camps in Albania. Serbian settlers should be killed.”
 
(End Quote)

 
In the US “Philadelphia Bulletin” newspaper article entitled
“On the Wrong Side in Kosovo” by Joseph Puder of the Interfaith Taskforce for America and Israel, Puder wrote:
 

 
“The [Albanian] “Skanderbeg” SS division.partook in the rounding up of Jews who were sent to their death in Bergen Belsen and other Nazi death camps. Bedri Pejjani, a Kosovo Muslim was appointed by the Nazis to rule occupied Kosovo and set out to establish a greater Islamic state in the region with the blessing and support of Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler’s protégé and friend.”


The Albanian government and Albanian authorities took an active part in the extermination of Albanian Jews: In June, 1943, the Albanian police chief suggested the jailing of certain Jews:

"According to our investigation the Jews listed below are dangerous because they are propaganderizing [sic] against the Axis (Rome-Berlin) and they want to organize and hold meetings. We think these people should be taken away from here as soon as possible to one of the concentration fields, because their staying here could be dangerous to the regime."


http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/?p=34


































In a July, 1944 report by US intelligence, the OSS, on Albania entitled Political and Internal Conditions, it was reported that "Xhafer Deva, Rexhep Mitrovic[a] and Midhat Frasheri are with the Germans. … Anti-semitic measures are being adopted now".

A captured SS document revealed that Deva had been responsible for the deportation of Jews, Communists and partisans to extermination camps as well as for punitive raids by the SS Skanderbeg Division. The small mountain territory had few Jews, so relatively few were captured and killed. This proves that the Albanian government instituted anti-Semitic measures and did deport Albanian Jews to the death camps.

 
Let’s not confuse the handful of Jews living in Albania [NOT Kosovo] who escaped the Holocaust due to Italian military rule (the Italian troops  did not enforce Hitler’s “Final Solution” against the Jews the way German troops did).
 
So the escape of Albania’s small Jewish population from the Holocaust had more to do with the Italian troops being in command of Albania from 1939 to 1943 and less to do with any noble love for Jews by the Albanians. As historian Carl K. Savich has correctly pointed out:
 
“During the Italian occupation, they [Jews] were able to disperse and blend in the general population. When Germany occupied Albania in 1943, the Jewish population was already beyond reach.”
 
http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060.shtml

http://serbianna.com/blogs/savich/?p=34

http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/zero-jews-in-kosovo-today/

[sonja_yu]

Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........

 

What Neo-Nazi far right?

First of all, Nazism, since being based upon socializm, isn't true right and is an insult to the right wing.

Second, there is no Neo-Nazi political party in Serbia, which I can't say for your Western countries!

[sonja_yu]

Long time since my last reply, I am unpleased to see that freedom of speech has been destroyed on this particular issue......How could Mario have been removed for such benign comments that seeked only genuine answers then straight away jump on the bandwagon of him being a croat nationlist or albanian how unfounded nevertheless. The most effective group in WWII Yugoslavia were the Partisans and they were a true coalition. Can i ask how is government and people opposing the neo-nazi far right rapid growth in Serbia can this be related to economic strife or perhaps a deeper rooted anti-semitism, please when you answer this people don't give me Croatia as an example to look at or somewhere which can be used as a currency for judging Serbia's credibility on this issues I have already clearly agreed with Croatia's disgusting involvement in WWII, but today's Croatia has had a Jewish Vice Prime Minister (Andrija Hebrang) and a growingly connecting Jewish Community. Again I don't want an answer connecting Croatia's atrosities against serbs I already know this and I really sincerely find it disturbing from Jasenovac to Srbska Krajina lets base this on serbs and the jewish diaspora in the south slavic lands. Albania protected jews from the NAzis so much so there is still a regular remembrance of this that takes place in Albania, Bosnia had ne of the largest jewish communities of ugoslavi where Sefardic Jews particularly involved in trade fro Sarajevo,eastern parts of Croatia had askhenazi immigration from Hungary recently clamping down on right wing tendancies and supporting jewish communities, now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........

 

You want us not to mention Croatia while you did it yourself.
Well, take it now.
Look what they are doing on concerts and how a part of their population acts like and than dare defending them again.

Please, spare us from that "I find that disgusting": "yeah, I know that happened, BUT..."; "concentrate on......" because we all know you're lying and you aren't any sorry nor find anything disgusting, 'cause if you did, you wouldn't come here spitting on that.

The real thing you're doing here is trying to bring apologia for that all and spread history revisionism.

Yeah, there is remembrance in Albania, strangely not in Yad Vashem, too, LOL. Now you're painting Albanians more Jewish than the Jews. You're hilarious.

Don't even think of putting up Serbia's economic situation, because, if any of your Western countries was under such sanctions and had such inflation as you have yourselves imposed on it, any of you would fall apart long ago, especially nowadays when so many young Westerners are weak, capricious nerds offensive to their great ancestors (RIP).

Give a PROOF that Serbia "has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe"!

"now please inform me if I am wrong but after all the history etc Serbia has the polish effect although messed up by ultra right wing politics it has the 2nd largest growing right wing neo nazi groups in the whole of Europe please explain how from such humble and good intentions did this all arise........"

Now you're trying to inflict that this history is "false", aren't you?
You have exactly such, ironic tone.

"although messed up by ultra right wing politics"

Listen to me, LEFTIST, there’s NO neo-Nazi political party in Serbia 'cause there is no neo-Nazi politician in Serbia.
In the other hand, there are PLENTY of your ULTRA-LEFT liberal pro-crime, pro-NATO, pro-Globalist, pro-gay, pro-marijuana etc politicians who should be shot in public as an example and as a warning to anyone who'd dare to fallow their steps.
The only problem would be that some jerk will always be found to paint them as martyrs and claim how they finished as Marcus Tulius Cicero, for example, while there is no way or possibility to meassure him with them.

And one more thing, NOBODY HERE IS A LEFTIST SO TAKE THE COMMUNIST GARBAGE OUT!!!