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muman613:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on November 26, 2009, 02:25:27 PM ---Shalom Muman!
Why do Lubavitchers believe that the late Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson as the Messiah? He did not rebuild the temple, he dis not stop wars in the world and he did not bring all Jews back to Israel either? Does it not violate the fundamental tenents of Judaism?
I have not heard any vociferous opposition from other Orthodox Jews to the Lubavitcher movement for calling their Rebbe as their Messiah?
Thanks!
CZ
--- End quote ---
Shalom Christian Zionist,
I happen to know many good Chabad rabbis and Chabad members from my local area. There is nothing wrong with believing that someone is Moshiach as long as that person is alive and has the potential to carry out the mission of Moshiach. I have just heard an awesome talk from a Rabbi who explained that even the greatest sage of Israel, the revered Rabbi Akiva believed for a time that Moshiach had finally come. In this case Rabbi Akiva believed that Bar Kochbah was Moshiach because he had sucessfully repelled the Roman armies for many years. But in the end Bar Kochba fell and it had to be admitted that he was not Moshiach.
There is also the belief, though the Chassidim discuss it more frequently, that there are sparks of Moshiach in every generation. We believe that Moshiach can come at any time, and he may already be here but the time is not right for it to be revealed. The Chassidim also have the concept that their Rebbe is a tzadik, or a righteous Jew, who is learned and can be learned from. The tzadik is a very integral part of Chassidic thought because every Chassidisha sect of Judaism has its tzadik. The Breslov chassidim have Rabbi Nachman of Breslov who died in the early 1800s and is still today revered as the Rebbe of Breslov. I happen to associate with this kind of Chassidism because my family is from the city where the Rebbe is buried.
Some people assume that because the Beslovers revere and love their rebbe so much that he must have thought that he was Moshiach. I have never read anything by Rabbi Nachman which suggests that he thought he was Moshiach. Rabbi Nachman, while living in exile, did make a journey to Eretz Yisroel and Breslovs Yeshiva today is in Jerusalem. And Rebbe Schnereson of the Chabad chassidim has always supported Aliyah to Eretz Yisroel while always sending agents/schliachs to the four corners of the world.
The Chabad organization is blessed and it is a blessing for the Jewish people. I have attended many Shabbat and Yom Tov functions with Chabad and often they don't even charge anything. Many times I donate money to Chabad, either my local Chabad, or the national Chabad via the telethon. I have asked my friends about this belief that the Rebbe was moshiach. Most Chabad people I know say that they believed he may have been Moshiach while he lived but realized once he died that he wasn't. I can certainly understand this.... When I watch video or even photographs of the Rebbe of Lubavitch I get shivers because I know that Hashems glory shone from his face. When Chabad would have their get togethers the spiritual energy would flow like noplace on earth. The intimate nigguns/tunes which were sung, the closeness of bodies and closeness of spirit... It is unlike any other experience and I can only watch it now on youtube.. [
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There are some Chabdniks who still believe he was moshiach. I do not understand how they can believe this. But I will not judge them because he certainly had sparks of Moshiach within him, and he revealed many other sparks of Moshiach by sending Mitzvah patrols into the world to make sure Jews all over the world could perform the commandments of the Torah.
References:
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/101679/jewish/The-Personality-of-Mashiach.htm
http://www.aish.com/jl/h/48954961.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_nachman
http://www.613.org/hasidism/03.htm
--- Quote ---Why Chassidim Have Rebbes
Chassidim seek attachment with their Rebbe to strengthen their bond with the Tzadik. The Rebbe is considered a possible foundational Tzadik - the source of life affirming good. Therefore, the stronger one is connected to him the more life one derives directly through the Tzadik.[23]
One can get life in other ways, evil gets life from G-d even though it is not connected to the Tzadik in a direct way, yet to receive vitality in the holiest manner,[24] there is a need for a direct channel to the Tzadik.
The world of evil is superficial. Sin is a product of externalism. For instance, lusts tantalize with promises of pleasure yet they are rarely a path to satisfaction. Once they are realized man is left with an aching emptiness, for evil is hollow within. A holy person is an inner person who rises above an extrinsic perspective.
There is a superficial connection to the Tzadik, and internal attachment to the Tzadik. Physically being a chassid, a follower, while in practice not emulating his ways is a superficial attachment. The attendant who hovers around the Tzadik, setting the holy man’s schedule or serving him lunch is not necessarily connected to the Tzadik. True connection, requires a relationship on an inner level, where one learns and grows from the example of the Tzadik.[25] The quiet student who is inspired by the Tzadik’s presence or words to serve G-d with added devotion and to emulate the Tzadik has the inner bond even if he never introduces himself to the Tzadik. The student who resembles the Tzadik is the true chassid. The attendant is a chassid only in name. He and the Tzadik reside in different worlds and he does not receive life directly through the Tzadik.
Personally becoming a Tzadik Yesod Olam might seem to be an unrealistic goal for many of us. The Tanya teaches that many souls do not have the potential of reaching the heights of Tzadikhood. However, all souls can attain great spiritual levels. An awareness of the different types of souls within mankind, can help each of us actualize our individual latent proclivities for holy behavior.
--- End quote ---
muman613:
Here is Chabads discussion of the concept of Moshiach in every generation:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/101679/jewish/The-Personality-of-Mashiach.htm
B. Mashiach In Every Generation
Any time is a potential time for the coming of Mashiach.7 This does not mean, however, that at the appropriate time he will suddenly emerge from Heaven to appear on earth.8 On the contrary: Mashiach is already on earth, a human being of great saintly status (a tzadik) appearing and existing in every generation. “In every generation is born a progeny of Judah fit to be Israel’s Mashiach!”9
On the particular day that marks the end of the galut, when Mashiach will redeem Israel, the unique pre-existing soul of Mashiach ‘stored’ in Gan Eden from aforetimes will descend and be bestowed upon that tzadik.10 R. Mosheh Sofer summarizes this principle in his responsa:11
“As for the coming of the scion of David, I need to posit the following premise: Moses the first redeemer of Israel, reached the age of eighty years and did not know or sense that he would redeem Israel. Even when the Holy One, blessed be He, said to him, ‘Come and I will send you to Pharao…’ (Exodus 3:10), he declined and did not want to accept that mission. So it will be with the final redeemer.
“The very day that the Bet Hamikdash was destroyed, was born one who, by virtue of his righteousness, is fit to be the redeemer.12 At the proper time G-d will reveal Himself to him and send him, and then will dwell upon him the spirit of Mashiach which is hidden and concealed above until his coming.
“Thus we find also with Saul that the spirit of royalty and the Holy Spirit which he had not sensed at all within himself came upon him after he was anointed…
“The tzadik himself does not realize this potential. Because of our sins many such tzadikim passed away already. We did not merit that the Messianic spirit was conferred upon them. They were fit and appropriate for this, but their generations were not fit…”13
This explains why R. Akiva would consider Bar Kochba to be Mashiach (Yerushalmi, Ta’anit 4:5; see Hilchot Melachim 11:3; and cf. Yeshu’ot Meshicho, Iyun Harishon:ch.4). Furthermore, it explains a discussion in Sanhedrin 98b about the name of Mashiach, with different authorities suggesting Shiloh, Yinon, Chaninah and Menachem (cf. Yeshu’ot Meshicho, Iyun Hasheni, ch. 3, that the term Mashiach is an acronym of these four names): each school picked the name of its own master (Rashi). The implication is clear: each school regarded its own master as the most likely potential Mashiach of that generation by virtue of his saintliness and perfection; see R. Tzadok Hakohen, Peri Tzadik, Devarim:13. In later generations, too, we find the same attitude among the disciples of R. Isaac Luria, the Baal Shem Tov, the Vilna Gaon, R. Chaim David Azulay, and many other extraordinary personalities, as stated explicitly in their writings. 4
muman613:
Here is the discussion of the machlokes/disagreement concerning whether Rebbe Nachman and his followers believed he was Moshiach...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_nachman
Did he believe he was the Messiah?
Secular academic view
The Encyclopedia Judaica and other secular academic sources claim that Rebbe Nachman saw himself as the Messiah. One proof that secular academics offer is that the messianic personality is expected to rectify errant souls. Rebbe Nachman did speak to his disciples about the principle of tikkun (rectification of souls), and even suggested that he was capable of rectifying souls. However, this power was also claimed by Rebbes of other Hasidic sects. The principle of tikkun is also found throughout the teachings of (Rabbi Isaac Luria), who preceded Rebbe Nachman by several hundred years.
Some secular academics postulate that Rebbe Nachman was influenced by the teachings of Sabbatai Zevi and Jacob Frank, false messiahs of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, respectively, but that he was not actually a Sabbatean or Frankist. As proof, they note that Rebbe Nachman's thinking on tikkun olam, the Kabbalistic healing of the universe, bears similarities to the teachings of Sabbatai Zevi.
In his writings, Rebbe Nachman refers to Sabbetai Zevi as SHaTZ (an acronym for his Hebrew name, SHabbetai TZvi, and concludes the reference with the expression yimach shemo (may his name be obliterated). The latter expression is generally reserved for the worst enemies of the Jewish people.
Breslov view
Rebbe Nachman never claimed that he was the Messiah. He taught the general Hasidic concept of the tzaddik ha-dor (tzadik of the generation), which is the idea that in every generation, a special, saintly person is born who could potentially become the Jewish Messiah if conditions were right in the world. Otherwise, this tzaddik lives and dies the same as any other holy man. Toward the end of his life, he said, "My light will burn until the coming of the Messiah" — indicating that the Messiah had not yet arrived. Breslover Hasidim do not believe Rebbe Nachman was the Messiah, but they do believe that the light of his teachings continues to illuminate the paths of Jews from many disparate backgrounds.
It should be noted that the Sabbateans based their teachings on the same Zohar and Lurianic kabbalah that are considered part of classical Judaism by Hasidism. Where the Sabbateans diverged from accepted teaching was in believing that Sabbatai Zevi was "the Messiah" and that the Halakha (Jewish law) was no longer binding. Rebbe Nachman did not do the same. He did not claim he was the Messiah, and when asked, "What do we do as Breslover Hasidim?" he replied, "Whatever it says in the Shulchan Aruch (Code of Jewish Law)."
Christian Zionist:
Thank you so much Muman!
I really commend the Lubavitcher movement for supporting Zionism and for encouraging Jews to make Aliya.
But I thought Judaism (the Talumd) teaches that the Messiah must stop all wars in the world and build the 3rd temple.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Christian Zionist on November 26, 2009, 08:44:14 PM ---Thank you so much Muman!
I really commend the Lubavitcher movement for supporting Zionism and for encouraging Jews to make Aliya.
But I thought Judaism (the Talumd) teaches that the Messiah must stop all wars in the world and build the 3rd temple.
--- End quote ---
Yes, these are a part of the mission of Moshiach...
http://www.moshiach.com/topics/in-depth/the-messianic-era.php
--- Quote ---
• Restoration of the Bet Hamikdash
• Ingathering of the Exiles of Israel
• End to Evil and Sins
• Awareness and Knowledge of G-d
• Universal Worship of G-d
• Universal Peace and Harmony
• Resurrection of the Dead
• Blissful Utopia: End to Disease and Death
--- End quote ---
So it is obvious that anyone who accomplishes these goals can be called Moshiach... Anyone who has accomplished some of them may be a candidate for moshiach...
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