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muman613:

--- Quote from: Irish Zionist on December 06, 2009, 11:25:43 AM ---Muman whats The Jewish forum of Hell like compared to The Christian one? Do you have a devil? Another thing, do Jews believe in Saints and if so can you name some of the most important?
Thanks.

--- End quote ---

This is another complex theological question.... Jewish scripture doesnt explain much about this but I will try to explain what I have learned.

Jews call 'hell' Gehinnom, or purgatory... It is a punishment for the soul, after the body has died, and it is a sentence which is commensurate with the violation of Mitzvahs we did during our lifetime. The simple understanding is that our souls are judged on the day we die and our good deeds are weighed against our bad deeds, and if our bad deeds outweigh the good then we need a 'soul correction' in Gehinnom.

For the normal Jew who only transgresses because of ignorance or because of weaknesses beyond his control will only be 'sentenced' to up to a year in Gehinnom, after which time their souls are cleansed and they are admitted to Gan Eden {Paradies or Heaven in Christianity}. There are seven levels of Gehinnom and the most wicked and vile souls are sentenced to eternal burning in the pits of Gehinnom.

But the understanding of the process of how souls are rebirthed is not entirely clear. There is also a Jewish concept which is similar to reincarnation, where souls are allowed another chance in the physical world and these souls must complete their mission in this world. This explanation is used to explain why children suffer and die, because their souls have completed their missions and they are allowed eternal rest in Paradise.

In general we refer to the other world as Olam Haba, and this world as Olam Hazeh...  Judaism has always stressed that This World is the important world, it is the world of action... The soul can do no improvement in the next world... All the work needs to be done by our own effort, to rectify our souls, and earn the reward for Olam Haba, the world of being...


References:

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=680


--- Quote --- Gehinnom is the name given to Hell in the Rabbinic literature. The name was borrowed from that of a real valley (see Joshua 15:2,8 and 18:16; 2 Kings 23:10; 2 Chron.28:3 and 33:6; Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 19:2,6; Nehemiah 11:30) where burnings took place. See also Isaiah 30:33; Jeremiah 19:11-13; Job 17:6. Punishment in Gehinnom lasts only for up to 12 months, except for certain major sinners. Isaiah 66:24 must be referring to it when he speaks of the fire that is not extinguished.
--- End quote ---

http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword_cdo/kid/10797/jewish/Gehinnom.htm


--- Quote ---Gehinnom: purgatory, the spiritual realm in which the souls are cleansed from the blemishes brought about by their conduct while on Earth
--- End quote ---

http://www.judaism.org/index.php?p=994


--- Quote ---Do we as Jews believe in Hell? If so what would someone do to deserve a place in hell?

Hell, yes.

Well, sort of…

...you see, it’s nothing like the images we probably have of it, fashioned from TV evangelists and B horror movies. There’s no devil, and perhaps even no recognizable physical existence.

Rather, it is a place (called “Gehinnom” in Hebrew) where the soul is exposed to the reality of everything that it did in this world, while simultaneously being shown the potential that it possessed to achieve. All the facts are laid on the table in a manner which is irrefutable and undeniable. The principal punishment of Gehinnom is the inescapable pain of regret for wasting or even abusing one’s potential and thus not achieving what one could have achieved.

Gehinnom is a cleansing process for the soul to enable it to eventually enter the World To Come. Some souls are able to enter the World To Come without experiencing Gehinnom, either because of their lofty achievements in this world or because they already experienced all their suffering there (or a combination of both). For those who have to go to Gehinnom, the cleansing process is usually completed in eleven or twelve months. On rare occasion, for people who did terrible evil in their lifetimes, causing many to suffer, Gehinnom can take much longer. For example, the Talmud states that Titus Andronicus, the Roman general who destroyed Jerusalem and the second Temple in 70 ACE, is still in Gehinnom .

Only G-d, with His infinite knowledge and wisdom, can judge who does or does not deserve Gehinnom and how long their stay there must last. But it is obvious, from our human perspective, that by studying and fulfilling the Torah as much as we can, we move ourselves away from the judgment of Gehinnom.
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http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm


--- Quote --- Gan Eden and Gehinnom

The place of spiritual reward for the righteous is often referred to in Hebrew as Gan Eden (GAHN ehy-DEHN) (the Garden of Eden). This is not the same place where Adam and Eve were; it is a place of spiritual perfection. Specific descriptions of it vary widely from one source to another. One source says that the peace that one feels when one experiences Shabbat properly is merely one-sixtieth of the pleasure of the afterlife. Other sources compare the bliss of the afterlife to the joy of sex or the warmth of a sunny day. Ultimately, though, the living can no more understand the nature of this place than the blind can understand color.

Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

This 12-month limit is repeated in many places in the Talmud, and it is connected to the mourning cycles and the recitation of Kaddish. See Life, Death and Mourning.
--- End quote ---

muman613:
This article from Chabad does a good job of explaining the Jewish view on this topic:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm

What is Heaven and Hell?

Heaven and hell is where the soul receives its punishment and reward after death. Yes, Judaism believes in, and Jewish traditional sources extensively discuss, punishment and reward in the afterlife (indeed, it is one of the "Thirteen Principles" of Judaism enumerated by Maimonides). But these are a very different "heaven" and "hell" than what one finds described in medieval Christian texts or New Yorker cartoons. Heaven is not a place of halos and harps, nor is hell populated by those red creatures with pitchforks depicted on the label of non-kosher canned meat.

After death, the soul returns to its Divine Source, together with all the G-dliness it has "extracted" from the physical world by using it for meaningful purposes. The soul now relives its experiences on another plane, and experiences the good it accomplished during its physical lifetime as incredible happiness and pleasure, and the negative as incredibly painful.

This pleasure and pain are not reward and punishment in the conventional sense--in the sense that we might punish a criminal by sending him to jail or reward a dedicated employee with a raise. It is rather that we experience our own life in its reality--a reality from which we were sheltered during our physical lifetimes. We experience the true import and effect of our actions. Turning up the volume on that TV set with that symphony orchestra can be intensely pleasurable or intensely painful,8--depending on how we played the music of our lives.

When the soul departs from the body, it stands before the Heavenly Court to give a "judgment and accounting" of its earthly life.9 But the Heavenly Court only does the "accounting" part; the "judgment" part--that only the soul itself can do.10 Only the soul can pass judgment on itself--only it can know and sense the true extent of what it accomplished, or neglected to accomplish, in the course of its physical life. Freed from the limitations and concealments of the physical state, it can now see G-dliness; it can now look back at its own life and experience what it truly was. The soul's experience of the G-dliness it brought into the world with its mitzvot and positive actions is the exquisite pleasure of Gan Eden (the "Garden of Eden"--i.e., Paradise); its experience of the destructiveness it wrought through its lapses and transgressions is the excruciating pain of Gehinom ("Gehenna" or "Purgatory").

The truth hurts. The truth also cleanses and heals. The spiritual pain of gehinom--the soul's pain in facing the truth of its life--cleanses and heals the soul of the spiritual stains and blemishes that its failings and misdeeds have attached to it. Freed of this husk of negativity, the soul is now able to fully enjoy the immeasurable good that its life engendered and "bask in the Divine radiance" emitted by the G-dliness it brought into the world.

For a G-dly soul spawns far more good in its lifetime than evil. The core of the soul is unadulterated goodness; the good we accomplish is infinite, the evil but shallow and superficial. So even the most wicked of souls, say our sages, experiences, at most, twelve months of gehinom, followed by an eternity of heaven. Furthermore, a soul's experience of gehinom can be mitigated by the action of his or her children and loved ones, here on earth. Reciting Kaddish and engaging in other good deeds "in merit of" and "for the elevation of" the departed soul means that the soul, in effect, is continuing to act positively upon the physical world, thereby adding to the goodness of its physical lifetime.11

The soul, on its part, remains involved in the lives of those it leaves behind when it departs physical life. The soul of a parent continues to watch over the lives of his/her children and grandchildren, to derive pride (or pain) from their deeds and accomplishments, and to intercede on their behalf before the Heavenly Throne; the same applies to those to whom a soul was connected with bonds of love, friendship and community. In fact, because the soul is no longer constricted by the limitations of the physical state, its relationship with its loved ones is, in many ways, even deeper and more meaningful than before.

However, while the departed soul is aware and cognizant of all that transpires in the lives of its loved ones, the souls remaining in the physical word are limited to what they can perceive via the five senses as facilitated by their physical bodies. We can impact the soul of a departed loved one through our positive actions, but we cannot communicate with it through conventional means (speech, sight, physical contact, etc.) that, prior to its passing, defined the way that we related to each other. (Indeed, the Torah expressly forbids the idolatrous practices of necromancy, mediumism and similar attempts to "make contact" with the world of the dead.) Hence the occurrence of death, while signifying an elevation for the soul of the departed, is experienced as a tragic loss for those it leaves behind.

Reincarnation: A Second Go

Each individual soul is dispatched to the physical world with its own individualized mission to accomplish. As Jews, we all have the same Torah with the same 613 mitzvot; but each of us has his or her own set of challenges, distinct talents and capabilities, and particular mitzvot which form the crux of his or her mission in life.

At times, a soul may not conclude its mission in a single lifetime. In such cases, it returns to earth for a "second go" to complete the job. This is the concept of gilgul neshamot--commonly referred to as "reincarnation"--extensively discussed in the teachings of Kabbalah.12 This is why we often find ourselves powerfully drawn to a particular mitzvah or cause and make it the focus of our lives, dedicating to it a seemingly disproportionate part of our time and energy: it is our soul gravitating to the "missing pieces" of its Divinely-ordained purpose.13

The World to Come

Just as the individual soul passes through three stages--preparation for its mission, the mission itself, and the subsequent phase of satisfaction and reward--so, too, does Creation as a whole. A chain of spiritual "worlds" precede the physical reality, to serve it as a source of Divine vitality and empowerment. Then comes the era of Olam HaZeh ("This World") in which the Divine purpose of creation is played out. Finally, once humanity as a whole has completed its mission of making the physical world a "dwelling place for G-d," comes the era of universal reward--the World to Come (Olam HaBa).

There is a major difference between a soul's individual "world of reward" in Gan Eden and the universal reward of the World to Come. Gan Eden is a spiritual world, inhabited by souls without physical bodies; the World to Come is a physical world, inhabited by souls with physical bodies14 (though the very nature of the physical will undergo a fundamental transformation, as per below).

In the World to Come, the physical reality will so perfectly "house" and reflect the Divine reality that it will transcend the finitude and temporality which define it today. Thus, while in today's imperfect world the soul can only experience "reward" after it departs from the body and physical life, in the World to Come, the soul and body will be reunited, and will together enjoy the fruits of their labor. Thus the prophets of Israel spoke of a time when all who died will be restored to life: their bodies will be regenerated15 and their souls restored to their bodies. "Death will be eradicated forever"16 and 'the world will be filled with the knowledge of G-d as the water covers the sea."17

This, of course, will spell the end of the "Era of Achievement."18 The veil of physicality, rarified to complete transparency, will no longer conceal the truth of G-d, but will rather express it and reveal it in an even more profound way than the most lofty spiritual reality. Goodness and G-dliness will cease to be something we do and achieve, for it will be what we are. Yet our experience of goodness will be absolute. Body and soul both, reunited as they were before they were separated by death, will inhabit all the good that we accomplished with our freely chosen actions in the challenges and concealments of physical life.

muman613:
Regarding 'Saints'.... We don't have such a concept as someone formally called a Saint...

I believe the idea for saints was taken from the Jewish idea of a Tzadik, or a completely righteous person. Many Jewish Tzadiks are 'saintly' or 'holy' individuals. There are many stories of great Jewish Tzadiks, but as I said the title is not official and there is no 'beatification' process or nomination for being a tzadik. Generally a person is a Tzadik if they live their lives according to Torah, are kind to their neighbors and treats people with respect and studies Torah.


--- Quote ---http://www.inner.org/glossary/gloss_t.htm#Tzadik ("Righteous"

Tzadik ("Righteous" person; pl. Tzadikim):
    A tzadik is someone who has succeeded in fully overcoming the evil inclination of his animal soul (and has converted its potential into good) and who dedicates himself to spiritually elevating his people.
     
    There are in general three levels of the tzadik:
     
    1. A "complete tzadik" (tzadik gamur) who not only vanquishes in full his innate evil inclination, but even transforms it into good (for which reason he is referred to as tzadik v'tov lo," a tzadik who possesses only good).
 
    2. An "incomplete tzadik" (tzadik she'eino gamur) who has not yet completed the task of vanquishing his evil inclination, though he has mineralized it in essence (for which reason he is called a tzadik v'ra lo," a tzadik who [still] possesses [a bit of] evil).
 
    3. A "relative tzadik" (tzadik b'shem hamushal, or tzadik b'din) whose merits exceed his liabilities (see Tanya, chapt. 1).
--- End quote ---

Here is an example of what a true Jewish tzadik must master before being considered a full tzadik:


--- Quote ---http://www.613.org/hasidism/07.htm

Lesson Seven - The Soul and Body of a Tzadik

 The Tzadik first subdues and then entirely redirects his nefesh habahamis and only at the highest spiritual levels turns his body into a shining light thus uniting body and soul.

The physical soul primarily seeks selfish pleasure.  The Tzadik struggles with those desires, and develops a hatred for the hedonistic attitude.  The nefesh habahamis is said to receive its nourishment from the Sitra Achra literally the “Other side.”  The material, mundane, and sinful are all part of the non-saintly domain.  This area is called Sitra Achra because like two sides of a sharp divide, one can only stand in one side.  It is impossible to straddle the fence and place one’s feet in both areas.  Holiness is one world, material pleasure is a different one.  To achieve sanctity materialism must be eschewed.  The Tzadik is on the side of the saintly, he therefore totally rejects materialism and finds it revolting.[1]  Tzadikim completely rid themselves of the external, physical perspective.   

Rabbi Isaak of Kamarna[2] related that his entire life, starting from age nine, when he would see a woman, he would immediately see the name of G-d of aleph, dalet, nun, yud, which is the Godly manifestation that gives life to the feminine.

 Evidently, he had suppressed his nefesh habahamis, abhorred its lusts and dictates, and eventually rid himself of lustful desires and therefore constantly found Heavenly displays in all physical sights.[3]

After the Tzadik truly abhors physical pleasure his nefesh habahamis transforms and he finds Torah and Mitzvos appealing, exciting, and delightful in a physical manner.  He feels the infinite pleasure that can be accessed within the performance of Mitzvos, experience of genuine tefillah - prayer, and the joy of comprehending the Divine through Torah thought.[4]
--- End quote ---

I will give a list of some Jewish Tzadiks:

Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev
http://www.inner.org/spiritual-masters/levi-yitzchak-berditchev/levi-yitzchak-berditchev-1.php

--- Quote ---The 25th of Tishrei is the yahrzeit—the day of passing and ascent into heaven—of Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev (1740-1810). Rebbe Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev is best known as the advocate of the Jewish people (sanegoran shel Yisra'el). He is famous for his ability to find the positive point in every Jew and in advocating in favor of the Jewish people as a whole in front of the Almighty and His Heavenly tribunal.
--- End quote ---

muman613:
Here is more about saints...


http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/man-self-development-commitment/

5. What is the Jewish concept of the Sinner and the Saint?

    Sin & Saintliness do not exist in Judaism. These are Christian concepts. Judaism has a whole range of words to describe spiritual negativity עבירה, חטא, טומאה,  among others. For us negative and positive spirituality exist on a gradient and cannot be contained by one word. The commonly used word however is עבירה (avayra) which literally means to pass over - i.e. to pass over the opportunity to do G-d’s will. This is also called a חטא, a lack, which means that we have failed to actualize our spiritual potential either by failing to do something or by doing something positively bad.

    So too there are no saints in Judaism [3]
, although there are righteous men and women. These צדיקים are your common man who through working on their characters became holy. No titles are ever given out or awards made. In fact the surest disqualification for the name Tzadik is someone who is trying to consciously acquire the name.

    A (righteous person) צדיק, like you and me continues to struggle with himself, to work on himself, and to grow forward. His greatness lies not so much in the heroic act as in the daily standards of excellence he applies to his life. We all are capable of being heroes, we hope, when it comes to the unusual, to the little old lady who fell down in the street. But real Jewish heroism is expressed in the little act, not as Napoleon on his white horse. At first glance the Jewish righteous man appears to be doing the same thing as everyone else - he tries to give, to be friendly and warm, to pray meaningfully and to keep the mitzvos (commandments). Like the (righteous person) צדיק, we all try to smile at our fellow man and to pray to G-d. The difference between the (righteous person) צדיק and every-man is that whereas we sometimes get it right and sometimes don’t, whereas we sometimes let our moods or simply lack or awareness get in the way, the צדיק (righteous person) manages an amazing consistency. We all have that great pray now and then - the צדיק does it every day. We all occasionally access the inner essence of our souls, overcome our desire to overeat or not get out of bed - we are all heroes some of the time. The צדיק is a hero every day.

Christian Zionist:
Shalom Muman!

How popular is Menachim Meiri's interpretation of Halacha in the Orthodox community?

Meiri was the only Halachic arbitrator who qualified Christians as righteous gentiles, didn't he?

Thanks!

CZ

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