creating a new life form

[Dr. Dan]

for those of you curious or scientists, and some of us who are religious this brings up some issues. Now, they aren't even close to creating a life form yet.  However, if scientists were capable of making new life forms would you be for it or against it?  Some might make a claim that it disproves Gd's existence (but of course we know that it doesn't..it only enhances His existence..Gd created more than just this universe, but every bit of poetry and justice within it).

Just to summarize, this article goes into a little bit of detail how this scientist has been able to create the things scientifically that can be considered a life form. When i read this, I realized there could be some ramifications to our society in the future..just like cloning has its ramifications.

Should we be against such science?


I say that this is a good thing if it can bring good to the world.  But we have to be careful not to create something that can harm others and this world...such as an artificial virus. Anyway, read on and try to understand what it is saying...



http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp

[muman613]

for those of you curious or scientists, and some of us who are religious this brings up some issues. Now, they aren't even close to creating a life form yet.  However, if scientists were capable of making new life forms would you be for it or against it?  Some might make a claim that it disproves Gd's existence (but of course we know that it doesn't..it only enhances His existence..Gd created more than just this universe, but every bit of poetry and justice within it).

Just to summarize, this article goes into a little bit of detail how this scientist has been able to create the things scientifically that can be considered a life form. When i read this, I realized there could be some ramifications to our society in the future..just like cloning has its ramifications.

Should we be against such science?


I say that this is a good thing if it can bring good to the world.  But we have to be careful not to create something that can harm others and this world...such as an artificial virus. Anyway, read on and try to understand what it is saying...



http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/09/biologists-on-t.html?npu=1&mbid=yhp

Hello,

My answer is YES ! It is wrong!

We cannot bring others into existance without first perfecting ourselves. I forsee that the result of these creations will be more death and destruction, degradation of life, and misery. Monsters will be created. Genetically engineered mutants will be created to figth wars. If only Hitler had these great scientific wonders {and he was working on it} he would have succeeded in destroying the world.

I have faith that those who undertake these anti-human experiments will be destroyed by their own creations.

muman613

[Dr. Dan]

Hello,

My answer is YES ! It is wrong!

We cannot bring others into existance without first perfecting ourselves. I forsee that the result of these creations will be more death and destruction, degradation of life, and misery. Monsters will be created. Genetically engineered mutants will be created to figth wars. If only Hitler had these great scientific wonders {and he was working on it} he would have succeeded in destroying the world.

I have faith that those who undertake these anti-human experiments will be destroyed by their own creations.

muman613

Here ensues the debate...

Practically anything we create based on science can be use to do terrible misdeeds has you describe.  However, if practical applications can be used to save lives or make the world a better place, then they should not be strongly ignored or maligned as you had been describing.  Technology/robots/computers have also been thought much of the same way you make this to be...should be live without these technologies that can save lives?

Now..of course we should be thoughtful when we play with nature...we need to be ethical.  We cannot allow things like these to be used to do horrible things.

and yes, we need to perfect our inner selves..it will be a life long and eternity long thing for future history to do...

However, I disagree with you if you believe that science like this should be prohibited...if it is goign to lead to practical applications to save lives, definately yes..I welcome such research and technology.

[muman613]

Here ensues the debate...

Practically anything we create based on science can be use to do terrible misdeeds has you describe.  However, if practical applications can be used to save lives or make the world a better place, then they should not be strongly ignored or maligned as you had been describing.  Technology/robots/computers have also been thought much of the same way you make this to be...should be live without these technologies that can save lives?

Now..of course we should be thoughtful when we play with nature...we need to be ethical.  We cannot allow things like these to be used to do horrible things.

and yes, we need to perfect our inner selves..it will be a life long and eternity long thing for future history to do...

However, I disagree with you if you believe that science like this should be prohibited...if it is goign to lead to practical applications to save lives, definately yes..I welcome such research and technology.

Dan,

All the answers are to be found in the first story of the Torah. Man has an insatiable appetite for knowledge. Unfortunately our knowledge is not of Good & Evil, our knowledge is of the gray area in between. We are incapable of knowing what is ultimately right because the light of creation was dimmed and Hashem made himself hidden in this world. Our goal should be to perfect ourselves before we reach out and grasp this difficult tree of knowledge. The Tree is here for us and it is not evil in and of itself. The tree is here because we must learn how to live within Hashems commands and then we will have unlimited knowledge. By constantly eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge we dont really increase our intelligence, we just end up with more Data {Information} without a clear understanding. This is why, no matter what they discover, I believe they will not have any conclusions from this experiment. More data means more scientists clamoring to find the real interpretation of the data. I am one who believes that the more we think we know, the less we actually know...

muman613

[P J C]

UNETHICAL!

[Dr. Dan]

Dan,

All the answers are to be found in the first story of the Torah. Man has an insatiable appetite for knowledge. Unfortunately our knowledge is not of Good & Evil, our knowledge is of the gray area in between. We are incapable of knowing what is ultimately right because the light of creation was dimmed and Hashem made himself hidden in this world. Our goal should be to perfect ourselves before we reach out and grasp this difficult tree of knowledge. The Tree is here for us and it is not evil in and of itself. The tree is here because we must learn how to live within Hashems commands and then we will have unlimited knowledge. By constantly eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge we dont really increase our intelligence, we just end up with more Data {Information} without a clear understanding. This is why, no matter what they discover, I believe they will not have any conclusions from this experiment. More data means more scientists clamoring to find the real interpretation of the data. I am one who believes that the more we think we know, the less we actually know...

muman613

so based on this thought we shoudl abolish all technological advances including drugs, computers (of which you are using now), telephones, and clothing which keeps our body warmer than they used to...oh we should live and let live, right?  To have knowledge about how to advance ourselves is taboo according to Torah..no? 

[muman613]

so based on this thought we shoudl abolish all technological advances including drugs, computers (of which you are using now), telephones, and clothing which keeps our body warmer than they used to...oh we should live and let live, right?  To have knowledge about how to advance ourselves is taboo according to Torah..no? 

Have you not read the story of Genesis? The cat is already out of the bag... The lesson should be learned though. Once the fruit of the tree of knowledge was taken, against the will of the creator, we have embarked on a non-stop science fair project. There is no way to go back. We are on the path of discovery and have been advancing very quickly. In my mind we have advanced too quickly. Remember, Ive been a software engineer for 20 years and helped bring computing the the masses. I dont regret doing this. As you state every discovery has positive and negative attributes. My point is that progress is good, but it must be made wholistically. We are finite beings and cannot comprehend infinity. All we do by opening up new doors is become more confused. The truth will be found inside and outside. Just looking outside is not going to answer any questions.

muman613

[Dr. Dan]

Have you not read the story of Genesis? The cat is already out of the bag... The lesson should be learned though. Once the fruit of the tree of knowledge was taken, against the will of the creator, we have embarked on a non-stop science fair project. There is no way to go back. We are on the path of discovery and have been advancing very quickly. In my mind we have advanced too quickly. Remember, Ive been a software engineer for 20 years and helped bring computing the the masses. I dont regret doing this. As you state every discovery has positive and negative attributes. My point is that progress is good, but it must be made wholistically. We are finite beings and cannot comprehend infinity. All we do by opening up new doors is become more confused. The truth will be found inside and outside. Just looking outside is not going to answer any questions.

muman613

I don't understand this logic because it is the very thing of eating from the Tree of Knowledge that has made this world suceptible to poetry and beautiful music and love.  For happiness for sadness for anger.  For thirst and hunger and for fullness.  For giving to the poor and feeling good about it.  To be able to love our parents and then our children.  To be able to see miracles and realize so enormously how much greater than we actually think Gd is.  To even study the perfect Torah imperfectly and to see how every angle you look at it just happens to be correct in this time but wrong the next time but right the next time after that.  I like the imperfect world because from suffering I will seek pleasure and find it.  And when I get sad, I'll cry and it will be beautiful and feel just as amazing as being jubilent and happy just as beautiful as laughing uncontrollably...and being able to hope to see loved ones again who have passed on and to create beautiful poetry thinking about them.

I like this imperfect world.  I like being broken into pieces and having 613 answers to one question.  Such things will cause me to strive to be a better person and never think that I'm a perfect person.  Life is much more interesting that way.

And when did I say looking outside will only find answers?  of course you need to look inside and outside.  If there is one thing our planet is cursed with are people who look outside too much and forget about the inside...But that's how we got Abraham who might have been the first who deeply looked inside and found Gd..and how it created the Jewish people.

However, just as looking outside alone can be a detriment, so can looking inside alone...look at the religious freaks that plaque our planet..they can't live with others who think differently from them. They claim they know real truth while they might only get a small part of the truth.  I'm not referring to one religion...i'm also referring to branches and groups of certain religions.

[muman613]

Dan,

All I am saying is that there must be balance in this world. When we move forward with technology but the soul hasnt changed then we are not really progressing. The outward appearance of progress is easy to see. Sure, we have TVs and Computers and all kinds of perverted past-times, but are we really much more advanced than the man from 100 years ago, 500 years ago, even 1000 years ago? We are pretty much the same animal with the same emotional problems, physical problems, and other problems.

What should happen if a man could create a whole army of beings? Do you think that he will use it for good or for bad? History has shown that in general it will be used for bad. It is easier for a man to listen to the yetzer hara than to do the right thing and resist the temptation. I have seen how the yetzer hara works and it is very difficult to resist. I do not trust the majority of people in this world because they are off on a trip where they believe nature is in control, just like Pharoah and the Egyptians. They had the most advanced science and technology of their day. Did they use it for good? Obviously not. They used it for pagan idol worship and to attribute the plagues to the course of nature. Again and again the powers of the world use the knowledge which we gain for evil.

I am not going to stand in the way of progress. But I will be a voice to warn of the dangers of going far off the path.

muman613

[Dr. Dan]

Dan,

All I am saying is that there must be balance in this world. When we move forward with technology but the soul hasnt changed then we are not really progressing. The outward appearance of progress is easy to see. Sure, we have TVs and Computers and all kinds of perverted past-times, but are we really much more advanced than the man from 100 years ago, 500 years ago, even 1000 years ago? We are pretty much the same animal with the same emotional problems, physical problems, and other problems.

What should happen if a man could create a whole army of beings? Do you think that he will use it for good or for bad? History has shown that in general it will be used for bad. It is easier for a man to listen to the yetzer hara than to do the right thing and resist the temptation. I have seen how the yetzer hara works and it is very difficult to resist. I do not trust the majority of people in this world because they are off on a trip where they believe nature is in control, just like Pharoah and the Egyptians. They had the most advanced science and technology of their day. Did they use it for good? Obviously not. They used it for pagan idol worship and to attribute the plagues to the course of nature. Again and again the powers of the world use the knowledge which we gain for evil.

I am not going to stand in the way of progress. But I will be a voice to warn of the dangers of going far off the path.

muman613

I'm for voicing and warning the dangers of going far off the path..that's part of what I orginally said..we need to be thoughtful and ethical wtih science.