Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 23, 2008, 02:01:26 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on September 23, 2008, 06:43:41 AM ---Somewhere he mentions some chabad shul that won't help noachides because they think jews have superior souls. The R says it's ego that makes them believe that.
--- End quote ---
LOL, that's completely contrary to Chabad. For anyone without a complete ignorance, that doesn't suffice as any kind of argument. Granted I haven't listened to the audio.... And probably won't have time..... Especially not after your review, qq! So thanks.
--- End quote ---
I must say, I review almost every audio shiur badly..
He does get more into it eventually but I can tell you that up to 7mins in, it is rubbish.
Of course, as i'm sure you know, the idea of the jewish soul being better than the gentile soul is not just chabad. I have heard from rabbi dovid gottlieb of ohr (a bostoner chassid), that the idea occurs throughout jewish philosophical thought, and I think also, from rabbi daweed bar hayyim.
RDG explained it as jews have more spiritual potential.
Of course, this rabbi started his whole discussion on this chabad shul..
I must say.. since noachides are rare , it would not be common practice to have noachides in a shul. Infact, noachides aren't obligated to go to shul, and probably shouldn't be doing things jews do, not so many things anyway. I have heard ideas that jews are not meant to socialise with non-jews, we are meant to isolate ourselves, and so that would make sense as a reason for not having noachides in a shul.
I managed to conclude myself, by pure logic, when young, that a convert is one that has been born to the wrong parents / into the wrong body. Simply because a Jew is somebody with a jewish soul, you could say -the- sign is, he has been born jewish, or converted. In a sense, the convert always was jewish.
Similarly, I would reason, why is a Kohein a Kohein.. It must be a spiritual thing and not purely a physical thing.
A Kohein is not a Kohein because of his body. He is a Kohein because of his soul. There just happens to be an accidental physical component. And a Kohain is certainly more important, has a greater position, more DOs and DO NOTs, , more spiritual opportunities, and so they have an innate spiritual potential for greater greatness. Moreso than a Levi, and moreso than the rest of Israel. To say so is not "ego", and certainly not a reason to tell somebody to go away.
There is certainly going to be HUGE bias in the audio. But maybe he has some valid points.
I did discuss something with him once in email, he criticised the concept of G-d is everywhere. He is logical and doesn't use obscure sources. Rabbis have faults.. As long as you know where they are you can sift out the wheat from the chaff. He does produce written material , not just audio. That's a BIG plus.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on September 23, 2008, 03:20:04 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 23, 2008, 02:01:26 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on September 23, 2008, 06:43:41 AM ---Somewhere he mentions some chabad shul that won't help noachides because they think jews have superior souls. The R says it's ego that makes them believe that.
--- End quote ---
LOL, that's completely contrary to Chabad. For anyone without a complete ignorance, that doesn't suffice as any kind of argument. Granted I haven't listened to the audio.... And probably won't have time..... Especially not after your review, qq! So thanks.
--- End quote ---
I must say, I review almost every audio shiur badly..
He does get more into it eventually but I can tell you that up to 7mins in, it is rubbish.
Of course, as i'm sure you know, the idea of the jewish soul being better than the gentile soul is not just chabad. I have heard from rabbi dovid gottlieb of ohr (a bostoner chassid), that the idea occurs throughout jewish philosophical thought, and I think also, from rabbi daweed bar hayyim.
RDG explained it as jews have more spiritual potential.
--- End quote ---
Right but that wasn't what I objected to. To say that "Chabad refuses to help noahides because their souls are different" is absurd. That was my point. It's not the way Chabad uses the Tanya or the ideas about the souls.
And the way you write "better" does not really encapsulate the meaning, but I know what you're saying.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 23, 2008, 04:01:01 PM ---Right but that wasn't what I objected to.
--- End quote ---
I know.. and I echoed you in that the shul rejection for that reason was absurd.
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on September 23, 2008, 04:01:01 PM ---To say that "Chabad refuses to help noahides because their souls are different" is absurd.
<snip>
--- End quote ---
yep.
Lubab:
Moshe Ben Haim is not an "Orthodox Rabbi". He is a complete ignoramus often dipping into the realm of complete heresy.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Lubab on September 26, 2008, 11:34:30 AM ---Moshe Ben Haim is not an "Orthodox Rabbi". He is a complete ignoramus often dipping into the realm of complete heresy.
--- End quote ---
He is not Conservative or Reform.
I think he calls himself Rabbi and I have no reason to believe he is lying.
If he is a rabbi, and i'm sure he is, then he is an Orthodox one for sure.
I would bet that he accepts ALL of Maimonides 13 principles of faith.
He does pick on Chabad (your group), which I think is inconsistent of him and I suppose are an easier target for him than other kabbalists such as the Arizal, the RAMCHAL, the Vilna Gaon.
He rejects many mystical doctrines such as the one of Tzim Tzum and G-d is everywhere.
Funnily enough, I think the idea of G-d being everywhere may be stronger in Misnaged kabbalistic thought than in Chassidic. Though most misnagdim are not as into kabbalah.
I heard a very lucid description of tzim tzum from a misnaged, he said that G-d is everywhere literally.. And constricted his presence so we cannot sense him. The world is his garment. Lest one think we should pray to objects, we don't pray to objects because a)it is as when one addresses a person ,if one speaks into his ear, he is not speaking TO his ear. If one speaks towards a person's coat he is not speaking TO the coat. So too, in this material world are like his garments. b)we worship him in the way that he told us, by keeping mitzvot.
The chassidic view from what I understand, is G-d's light is everywhere. (not G-d himself?).
He rejects the whole thing. And that's fine. I don't see how the chassidic one contradicts the RAMBAM, though it's not supported by it.
He holds firm to the RAMBAM who says in Hilchot Yesodai HaTorah. G-d has no left or right associated with him..
I have heard this idea that G-d is ALL, there is a great description by Gil Locks (beware, you may get dizzy listening to him, but it's somewhat of a rite of passage!). He does bring a few verses from tenach to try to support it.
This idea does appear to me to contradict the RAMBAM though. This rabbi is convincing in his argument there.
Most misnagdim now, maybe 'cos they are not that into kabbalah, would only say that G-d can be found everywhere, but wouldn't say G-d is everywhere. Same as chassidim I -think- perhaps. I don't think he counters that idea really. He would agree G-d can be found everywhere. G-d fills the earth with his glory.. His presence perhaps, the earth, but not G-d himself.
It is not HERESY to reject All kabbalah post talmud. Most think that the RAMBAM did. Most think that the RAMBAM was -not- a kabbalist.
Fine, he lived in a different era, but still he's not a heretic if he didn't believe it, and it's ridiculous to say that the RAMBAM were he around today, -as we know him- no signs of kabbalah, it's ridiculous to say he would be a heretic.
There are some jews, who hold strongly to him. Not this guy, some people reject more than this guy. And they would not accept kabbalah either.
There is this group, who are VALID, they are orthodox. Just not the kind of orthodoxy we have grown accustomed to, not the mainstream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dor_Daim
Rabbi Kapach / Qafah, is well respected, I think even outside his Maimonidean group.. But he rejects the Zohar, and if he rejects that, you can be sure he rejects chassidut too.
It's not heresy. But it's far from the mainstream, and one wouldn't normally encounter these people in real life! But they are out there. Somewhere! In some synagogues in israel for example.
http://www.torathmoshe.com/
this guy has some youtube videos available. He is not a typical representative though. he has an interest in theology, and converted.. and doesn't seem to target many videos to jews unfortunately. But he's a smart guy and it looks kosher.
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