Author Topic: Why is there a Save Serbia? (Warning Graphic Pictures in Thread)  (Read 29732 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Why is there a Save Serbia? (Warning Graphic Pictures in Thread)
« on: September 21, 2008, 02:40:02 AM »
Why does a Jewish website support a country that has been preaching that Jews are lowlife Christ killers. DOn't you know Orthodox Christians countries have hated Jews for many more centuries than muslims.  I mean this anti-Jew feeling from Muslims is new age phenomenon and now equally as bad.   But my family was brutalized by the Orthodox CHristian church and the reason some of my family has goyish features is cause some were raped in villages by these pigs.  I don't see why so many people here are pro-Russi and pro-Serbia.  They would not even allow Jewish person to serve as leader in russian parliament cause they say he is not truly  a Russian and not CHristian.  They say Jews are alien race and that even thoug hthey live there for like 1000+ years, they are outsiders.  Bunch of scumbags..  I think all Orthodox Christian countries should go to hell with rest of islamonazi bastards.   Orthodox christian church is still the one church who claims that Jews are Christ killers and that they are most evil race on planet and many deny the existence of holocaust against Jews.  You speak with many Orthodox Christians they will ask you why you murdered their goyish Zeus Jesus.   

Just because Orthodox CHristians and muslims hate each other, doesn't mean Orthodox Christians are our friend.  I think people on this site are very one-sided and blind to the fact that nazism started from right-wing Christian groups as well as Muslims.  I know Albania cheated Serbs from some land, but as far as I am concerned, neither of them are my friends.

How come none of you guys talk about Serbia's nazi past?


Just because the Germans massacred a number of Serbians, who were fighting for their own country, not for us Jews, doesn't make them noble people or our friends.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 12:49:09 PM by Rubystars »

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 03:15:57 AM »
Why does a Jewish website support a country that has been preaching that Jews are lowlife Christ killers. DOn't you know Orthodox Christians countries have hated Jews for many more centuries than muslims.  I mean this anti-Jew feeling from Muslims is new age phenomenon and now equally as bad.   But my family was brutalized by the Orthodox CHristian church and the reason some of my family has goyish features is cause some were raped in villages by these pigs.  I don't see why so many people here are pro-Russi and pro-Serbia.  They would not even allow Jewish person to serve as leader in russian parliament cause they say he is not truly  a Russian and not CHristian.  They say Jews are alien race and that even thoug hthey live there for like 1000+ years, they are outsiders.  Bunch of scumbags..  I think all Orthodox Christian countries should go to hell with rest of islamonazi bastards.   Orthodox christian church is still the one church who claims that Jews are Christ killers and that they are most evil race on planet and many deny the existence of holocaust against Jews.  You speak with many Orthodox Christians they will ask you why you murdered their goyish Zeus Jesus.   

Just because Orthodox CHristians and muslims hate each other, doesn't mean Orthodox Christians are our friend.  I think people on this site are very one-sided and blind to the fact that nazism started from right-wing Christian groups as well as Muslims.  I know Albania cheated Serbs from some land, but as far as I am concerned, neither of them are my friends.

How come none of you guys talk about Serbia's nazi past?
http://shmajser.wordpress.com/2006/12/19/serbian-nazi-past-and-jasenovac-casualties-manipulations/

Just because the Germans massacred a number of Serbians, who were fighting for their own country, not for us Jews, doesn't make them noble people or our friends.


Please do not ban this person.

Let me debate him.

This will be very interesting.

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 03:50:16 AM »
Why does a Jewish website support a country that has been preaching that Jews are lowlife Christ killers. DOn't you know Orthodox Christians countries have hated Jews for many more centuries than muslims.  I mean this anti-Jew feeling from Muslims is new age phenomenon and now equally as bad.   But my family was brutalized by the Orthodox CHristian church and the reason some of my family has goyish features is cause some were raped in villages by these pigs. 

Look I a Orthodox Serb understand you and I appreciate your openness.

It is not good that your family was brutalized by “Orthodox” Christians.
The heads of the Orthodox church have never justified or propagated the prosecution against people, because of their ethnicity or religion. Not even one Orthodox Patriarch or other individual of authority, within the Orthodox Church, was a supporter of prosecution against people. You have no legal right to collectively blame the Christian Orthodox community or Church because of people who were out of any control and are only Orthodox by name. According to the bible murder and rape are sins of Death.
No Orthodox leader will encourage its people to conducted sins of Death.

Your family was victimized by savage and primitive individuals who are a shame for the Orthodox nations. Those who have hurt your family will probably do the same against me, or other people. But every nation has its own exceptions.

The Jews as Christ killers.
Well, Jesus’ destiny was to die for the sins of humanity. He would be crucified under any circumstances – even with out the Jews. When Jesus died on the cross he said Father forgive them because they do not know what they are doing. If Jesus forgave them, why should we now make problems with the Jews for something that had happened 2000 years ago?
There is salvation for everybody who is in Christos. 

I don't see why so many people here are pro-Russi and pro-Serbia.  They would not even allow Jewish person to serve as leader in russian parliament cause they say he is not truly  a Russian and not CHristian.  They say Jews are alien race and that even thoug hthey live there for like 1000+ years, they are outsiders.  Bunch of scumbags..

Why would Jews want to have authority positions in Orthodox countries?
In Orthodox countries Orthodox people must be in charge, not Jews, Catholics, Muslims or other non Orthodox individuals.
What is happening in other non Orthodox countries is a different story.
On Orthodox soil only Orthodox people should be in charge.
A non Orthodox person can not lead a Orthodox nation as good as an Orthodox person.   

You think that Jews like Karl Marks, Lenin,  Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich, Bakaric (Kuperstein) and Mose pijade should be in the governments of Russia/ Serbia?
Are you provoking us? ?  ? ? ? ?

When the Jews were prosecuted in and exiled from Catholic Spain, some of them came to Serbian lands and lived in peace among Serbs. Not even one Jew was prosecuted in Serbia. The Serbs called the Jews in Serbia not Christ killers nut Serbs with the religion of Moses.   

During WW2 Serbs were responsible for the rescue of many Jews.
Your statements against Orthodoxy are in struggle with historical facts.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 05:54:43 AM by DALMACIJA »

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 03:55:25 AM »
Just because Orthodox CHristians and muslims hate each other, doesn't mean Orthodox Christians are our friend.  I think people on this site are very one-sided and blind to the fact that nazism started from right-wing Christian groups as well as Muslims.  I know Albania cheated Serbs from some land, but as far as I am concerned, neither of them are my friends.


We do not hate Muslims. We only have problems with local Muslism like Bosnians and Albanians. Stop spreading lies against us!

Nazism is a product of the West. In the West you do not have Orthodoxy.
The Orthodox Church had never accepted anti-Semitism in contradiction to the Catholics Church which has an anti-Semitic past. The Roman Church has nothing in common with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Stop makeing mistakes to the disatvantage of the Orthodox nations!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 04:01:12 AM by DALMACIJA »

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 04:11:06 AM »
.   Orthodox christian church is still the one church who claims that Jews are Christ killers and that they are most evil race on planet and many deny the existence of holocaust against Jews.  You speak with many Orthodox Christians they will ask you why you murdered their goyish Zeus Jesus.   

You do not know what your are saying.
If you know history than you know that Adolf Hitler started WW2 with the intent to destroy Orthodox Christianity.
20.000.000 Orthodox Russians were killed during WW2.
About 1.000.000 Serbs were killed by fascists and communists during WW2.
There was a holocaust in WW1 and WW2 against Orthodox Christians.

Goyish Zeus Jesus?
Jesus is not a gentile or a Jew.
He is the eternal son of the living G-d who lived before the creation of the world and the nations. He is the living word of the true G-d who came to this earth in flesh and blood to bring salvation to the fallen humanity!

I do not blame you for rejecting Jesus - because there are allot of people in this world who do not accpet Him. G-d wants also to save the others! G-d did not create people to place them in the hell. G-d wants to save every human. That’s why you can not hate your fellow human.

Offline 4International

  • JTFer in Exile
  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 05:41:23 AM »
Shalom AryehYehuda,

This is Joshua Rosenberg, like Chaim Ben Pesach and many other Jews here on JTF, I am a very good friend and supporter of the Serbian people. I have intensely studied the history of Yugslavia and the Serbs during World War 2 - their relationship to the Jews during the Holocaust - and the war between the Serbs and their enemies in the 1990's: the Bosnian and Albanian muslims as well as the Roman Catholic Croats.

I don't deny that antisemtism exists in Christianity as it has especially so in the most blatant and brutal form in the Roman Catholic Church for millenia, nor do I deny that antisemitism exists in the Russian Orthodox church.

I will let Dalmacija and other Orthodox Christian Serbs on this forum answer your charges against the Orthodox Christian religion as a whole as being guilty of antisemitism since they are more qualified to do so being of that faith.

 
I have a simple question for you though. If you wish to be taken seriously here on this forum and if indeed you are Jewish, then why are you - as a JEW - quoting a pro-Ustasha Holocaust-denying BOSNIAN MUSLIM NAZI blog site on Wordpress which contains such laughable examples of Taqiyya muslim Nazi lies such as this priceless gem:



"Serbia as well as neighboring Croatia was under Axis occupation during the Second World War."

Anyone who has seriously studied the Holocaust and World War 2 history would know that Serbia was under GERMAN MILITARY OCCUPATION whilst Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina WAS NOT (Bosnia and Herzegovina was annexed by the Ustasha Nazi Croats who regarded the Bosnian muslims as "THE FLOWER OF THE CROAT PEOPLE" - surprise, surprise)

The Bosnian muslim blog page you link to - which incidentally engages in blatant Holocaust denial by pretending that there was NO HOLOCAUST IN THE CROAT USTASHA NAZI RUN DEATH CAMP COMPLEX OF JASENOVAC-STARA GRADISKA by drastically minimizing the numbers - also claims that Draza Mihajlovic's Royalist "Yugoslav Army in the Fatherland" - better known as the "Serbian Chetniks" collaborated with Hitler's German Nazi forces.

THIS IS A BLATANT BOSNIAN MUSLIM NAZI LIE AND A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF TAQIYYA.

The Serbian Chetniks were a truly heroic pro-Allied RESISTANCE movement which was supported by the Allied powers from April, 1941 right up until December 10, 1943. The Serbian Chetniks - by rising up against Hitler after the invasion of Serbia in April of 1941 WERE THE VERY FIRST AND ONLY RESISTANCE MOVEMENT IN ALL OF OCCUPIED EUROPE TO RISE UP AGAINST HITLER AND THE AXIS COLLABORATIONIST COUNTRIES.

In the late 1980's the British government de-classified intelligence documents which finally proved once and for all that Britain's wartime Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, was DECEIVED BY SOVIET COMMUNIST MOLES WORKING INSIDE BRITISH INTELLIGENCE (the Special Operations Executive).These Soviet communist moles sent Churchill's SOE on mulitiple occasions completely BOGUS intelligence reports accusing Draza Mihajlovic and his Chetniks of collaborating with the Germans.

Churchill then switched his support to the communist Josip Broz Tito after believing these bogus intelligence reports and history has never forgiven him for his tragic mistake: nearly 50 years of Tito's Communist dictatorship of Serbia and the rest of former Yugoslavia.A dictatorship run mainly by Communist Croats and Slovenians in the top positions of power.

You can read all about it in the following articles and books:


"A Coffin for Mihailovic" (New York Times Review of Sir Michael Lee's book "The Rape Of Serbia" )

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE0DE1E30F933A25751C0A967958260

British historian Sir David Martin's book:

"The Web of Disinformation: Churchill's Yugoslav Blunder"

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Jan1995.htm

British officer who actually served with Draza Mihajlovic Chetniks -  Sir Michael Lee's book:

"The Rape of Serbia"

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE0DE1E30F933A25751C0A967958260

British historian, Baron Avro Manhattan's book:

"The Vatican's Holocaust"

http://www.reformation.org/holocaus.html

Tudjman & the Croatian Ustashe Nazi genocide of Krajina Serbs in 1991

http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/03/19/tudjman-the-croatian-ustashe-nazi-genocide-of-krajina-serbs-in-1991/


The other ridiculous claim that Serbs cleansed the Jews of Belgrade and issued antisemitic Nazi postage stamps is also easily disproven anti-Serbian propaganda. As mentioned above, Serbia was a GERMAN NAZI OCCUPIED country with a German Nazi regulation stating that 100 Serbs or Jews would be executed for every German officer shot dead. Unlike the Croat/Muslim dominated Independent State of Croatia (NDH) which the Germans had no need to militarily occupy since it was an enthusiastic puppet Nazi regime.


I remember Judge Judy once saying to a defendant in her court room:

"Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.You lie to me once, I don't believe ANYTHING you have said!"


The site you quoted doesn't contain just one mere lie, it contains hundreds of them.Answering every one of the literally HUNDREDS of outrageous outright lies, distortions, twisting of the facts, mixing of truths with half truths on the Bosnian muslim Nazi blog you linked to would be like wading neck deep through a mud pit or sewer.

I also strongly suggest you spend some time reading - like a few days not merely a few minutes - the articles on these three pro-Israel sites before quoting Holocaust-denying Bosnian muslim Nazi or Croat Ustasha Nazi sites here again. On these sites you will learn just how heroic and noble the Serbs truly were during the Shoah:


Historical & Investigative Research

http://www.hirhome.com/

Jared Israel's Emperor's New Clothes

http://www.tenc.net

International Strategic Studies Association

http://128.121.186.47/ISSA/reports/Balkan/Balkanindex.htm


Here is what a very good friend of ours - Nathan Pearlstein - wrote in response to a similar load of blatant historical revisionism by a pro-Ustasha Nazi Croat who tried to turn history upside down and smear the Serbs with a Nazi brush:

[quote by Nathan Pearlstein begins here]

Quote: "You are either naive, or functionally illiterate."

You are either completely ignorant of World War 2 history, a liar and/or an idiotic chauvinistic Croatian propagandist.

Quote: "Get your facts straight about the Serbs in World War II."

I have all of my facts straight about actions of the Serbs, Croats,Bosnian muslims, Albanians and Slovenians during World War 2. It is YOU who is either ignorant or LYING.

Quote:"The Serbs, much like the Vichy Government in France had a Nazi sypathetic facist government.Led by General Nedic , who proudly sent a telegram to the Fuhrer proclaiming Belgrade to be the first European Capitol that was "judenfrei"."

Total rubbish.Serbia was attacked ruthlessly by Hitler on April 6, 1941. Hitler demanded that the Serbs be punished severely for throwing out the Axis-appeasing Belgrade government. The puppet government of the Nedic regime was set up by the German Nazi occupying forces after they militarily OCCUPIED Serbia killing almost 20,000 Serbs in air raids on Belgrade during "Operation Punishment".Any anti-Semitic laws and decrees issued from that point forward was FORCED upon Serbia by the occupying German army and SS, PERIOD.


Quote:"The Serbs were so blatently anti-semetic and eager to please their handlers in Berlin, that they issued anti-semetic postage stamps one featuring a snake covered with the Star of David being trampled by a foot."

Again,total rubbish. It was not "the Serbs" who issued those stamps, it was the German Nazi OCCUPYING military forces of the Wermacht and SS. Like I stated above,any anti-Semitic laws and decrees (including that of the publication of anti-Semitic postage stamps) issued from that point forward was FORCED upon Serbia by the occupying German army and SS, PERIOD.

Quote:"The Chetnik movement led by Draza Mihailaovic also collaberated with the Nazi occupires, despite the romantice lies to the contrary."

Again, anyone giving World War 2 history more than a mere cursory examination would know that General 'Draza' Dragoljub Mihajlovic was an internationally respected (by Western powers like the UK & US) and brave resistance fighter, posthumously awarded one of the highest honors which can be bestowed upon a foreigner: the "Legion of Merit" by US President Truman.

So your implied claim that Mihajlovic was a "Nazi collaborator" is utterly ludicrous and speaks volumes about your total lack of honesty and credibility, "jpervan".


The totally false stories that were put out by Tito's communist partisans about Mihajlovic being a collaborator of the German occupying forces being accepted by Churchill was via a Soviet mole in British intelligence.

This has been confirmed by various published works by British historians: Sir David Martin and Sir Michael Lees in their respective books, "The Web of Disinformation: Churchills' Yugoslav Blunder" and "The Rape of Serbia".This was even confirmed in a recent New York Times article, "A Coffin for Mihailovic".

In both these books the authors'positions are supported with masses of accompanying documentation from declassified British intelligence files.

The authors charge that the communist partisans - on direct orders from Tito - actually collaborated on various occasions with the Germans in order to militarily defeat the Royalist "Chetniks" led by Mihajlovic, since apart from their common resistance to the Germans a vicious civil-war began to rage between the two factions.

Quote:"The only true anti-fascist movement were the partisans..."

Absolute nonsense. I repeat: Tito's forces collaborated on numerous occasions with the German occupying forces in order to militarily crush the Royalist Chetniks who were anti-communist. See books listed above.

Quote:"...comprised of both Croatian and to a lesser extent Serbs."

Don't make me laugh out loud, "jpervan". Again anyone giving World War 2 history more than a mere cursory examination would be aware that the Yugoslav partisans were overwhelmingly comprised of Orthodox Christian Serbs, mainly because of the fact that in areas under Ante Pavelic's (the genocidal Croatian Ustasha 'Fuhrer') control in Bosnia-Herzegovina the civilian Serbian and Jewish population was subjected to genocide and the young Serbian and Jewish men who escaped the Croatian Ustasha genocide joined Tito's partisans because the Royalist Chetniks were mainly based in Serbia and had very little, if any, presence in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

It was only at the end of 1943 and early 1944 when it was becoming quite clear that Hitler's Third Reich and the Axis powers were losing the war, that some Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Slovenes switched sides and joined Tito's partisans.

For your information, Tito was half-Croat, half Slovenian, so you are quite ignorant of the historical facts there as well.

So get YOUR facts straight, "jpervan" and stop lying against the Serbs in order to promote your chauvinistic anti-Serbian - and I strongly suspect - anti-Semitic Croatian agenda.


[End quote by Nathan Pearlstein ]


Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2008, 05:55:01 AM »
Well, if they ban me for voicing my opinion, you surely prove my point of fascist elements having control.  I am labelled daily as a Christ killer, so what if I speak against CHristianity, especially Catholicsm and Orthodoxy, Lutheranism.    

Your family was victimized by savage and primitive individuals which are a shame for the Orthodox nations. Those who have hurt your family will probably do the same against me, or other people. But every nation has its own exceptions.

My family was brutalized by savages who had a bible in their hand saying they had to wipe out the "Christ Killers".  I know not every Russian, Ukranian, Serbian, Greek, etc person was responsible.  Yes, I did see some of SHindler's list and was forced to walk out , cause emotion got the best of me.  Yes, there is good souls among gentiles, even among muslims.  However, a good majority and rulers partook in mass devastation which was fueled by warped ideologies.  To just say a few savages were responsible is a total cop-out to the truth of the situation.  The Jews were massacred with full support of church and goverrnment.   Tell me, where did all these teaching of blood libels come from?  Who was responsible for conducting these trials?  Every time a "Good Christian Boy" was hurt, many would say it was the evil Jewish person who did it.  Many times blood libels where iniating from church since they rather blame an outsider, a Jew or Gypsy than a "Good Orthodox Christian" for a crime.  As I recall, the Orthodox Church not only did not do anything to help suffering Jews in villages , but actually encouraged the pogroms.


Why would Jews want to have authority positions in Orthodox countries?
In Orthodox countries Orthodox people must be in charge, not Jews, Catholics, Muslims or other non Orthodox individuals.
What is happening in other non Orthodox countries is a different story.
On Orthodox soil only Orthodox people should be in charge.
A non Orthodox person can not lead a Orthodox nation as good as an Orthodox person.   

WHy, cause they worked for those countries with their blood!  The blood your people shed!  They pay taxes to your country and have been some of the greatest contributors to your nation and your culture.  That is why!  YOur mentality I find revolting.  You have many Orthodox churches in Israel and have a lot of authority in our land, yet we have absolutely no authority.  THe Catholic church  I believe just purchased some very sacred buidlings to Jewish people.  If you don't want a Jew to rule an Orthodox country, then tell that Orthodox country to compensate them for all the suffering they imposed on them.  Not only that, but the beloved Orthodox country like Russia, not only will not allow a Jew to serve as leader, but they are entirely devoted to eradicating Jews from the earth.  Putztin, just announced he will spite the Israeli people for helping Georgia, by funding Iran and SYria with weapons and will assist them in constructing the nuclear arsenal.  This is the good ally of the Serbian people..  
[/quote]


You think that Jews like Karl Marks, Lenin,  Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich, Bakaric (Kuperstein) and Mose pijade should again rule with Orthodox nations?
Are you provoking us? ?  ? ? ? ?

Well well, another gentile, labelling Lenin a Jew..  Will you next call Hitler a Jew?  Sounds like the David Duke or Pat Buchanan website I was just at.  Where is your proof?  So, he had a touch of Jewish blood in him, so did some Nazis maybe?  The SS allowed people with Jewish blood to join, as long as they were not more than 1/4 or 1/8 Jewish.  Does this make him a Jew?  He was born and baptized as a Russian Orthodox Christian and was hardly considered to be Jewish.

"Lenin himself was of mostly Russian and Kalmuck ancestry, but he was also one-quarter Jewish. His maternal grandfather, Israel (Alexander) Blank, was a Ukrainian Jew who was later baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church."
FYI, many Jews go by the lineage of the mother.  Yet, neither his mother or father were even 100% Jewish.

"Born in Simbirsk (renamed Ulyanovsk after its most famous son), in the Russian Empire, Lenin was the son of Ilya Nikolaevich Ulyanov and Maria Alexandrovna Ulyanova.[2] His father was a successful Russian official in public education who wanted democracy. The family was of mixed ethnicity, his ancestry being “Russian, Mordovian, Kalmyk, Jewish (see Blank family), Volgan German, and Swedish, and possibly others” according to biographer Dmitri Volkogonov.[3] Lenin was baptized into the Russian Orthodox Church."

Why are you so bold as to label this man a Jew?  And by the way, for your information, the reason why Jews got into the mess of communism and loss of their own identity, was the leaders and people in these Orthodox and Catholic countries treated them as subhuman.  Many JEws were forced to lose their identity and Communism was just an outlet from the horrible oppression from the Czar and the segregation from both church and society they underwent.  OF course, many of us Jews are short-sighted and didn't realize the long term impact supporting such a barbaric movement as Communism wouldh ave.  Well in the end, the Czar went from Nicholas to Stalin.  


When the Jews were prosecuted in and exiled from Catholic Spain, some of them came to Serbian lands and lived in peace among Serbs. Not even one Jew was prosecuted in Serbia. The Serbs called the Jews in Serbia not Christ killers nut Serbs with the religion of Moses.   

During WW2 Serbs were responsible for the rescue of many Jews.
Your statements against Orthodoxy are in struggle with historical facts.
Don't know the depth of the details, but I will investigate.  More of my anger and disdain is at the Orthodox Church and the fallacy of its teachings against Jews and the oppression the Jews went from living in societies ruled by Orthodox and Catholic Christians.  If you will deny your churches had any wrongdoing, I will resume my research and I think it will not be hard to show you many examples of atrocities commited against Jews by Orthodox/Catholics.  I was just reading an article the other day, how in many Orthodox church liturgies that Jews were responsible for the death of Christ and that they should be shunned.

Now, as for Chrsitains, I Don't mind them and think Evangelical Americans are good friends to Many Jews and sincerely care and love for Jews and Israel.  Many of the Neo-Nazi and Fascist , ANti-Jewish movements you see are from right-wing Christians in Orthodox , Catholic countries, like Ukraine, Russia and Poland.  Of course, Southern KKK Christians like David DUke are also part of this right wind neo-nazi movement.  I don't actually know so much of Serbia, but have read they have made a pact with Russians and that a large neo-nazi movement is emerging there.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 06:00:29 AM by AryehYehudah »

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2008, 05:56:33 AM »
4International,

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2008, 06:04:29 AM »
I have a simple question for you though. If you wish to be taken seriously here on this forum and if indeed you are Jewish, then why are you - as a JEW - quoting a pro-Ustasha Holocaust-denying BOSNIAN MUSLIM NAZI blog site on Wordpress which contains such laughable examples of Taqiyya muslim Nazi lies such as this priceless gem:

Ok, oops.. I didn't realize..  i just was typing quickly and googled serbian nazis.. my mistake.. I will find another site then..  I don't know much of Serbia being nazi state, except I know it has an emerging neo-nazi movement, like its brother country, Russia.  Forgive me and I will remove the link and find better one.   I am 100% Ashkenazi Jew, with family from Ukraine, Russia and Poland.  My grand mother escaped nazis in Ukranian village.  All people in her village are dead now, as the nazis came there and forced them all to dig their own graves before shooting all of them.  If you like to visit some of my relatives in Ukraine, you can go visit local Jewish cemetary.  Assuming it has not bee ncompletely desecrated with swastikas or turned into a shopping mall.

Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2008, 06:17:42 AM »
FRom Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

There are several neo-Nazi groups in Serbia. Neo-Nazism in Serbia appeared in the 1990s during the Yugoslav wars.[citation needed] Before the breakup of Yugoslavia, neo-Nazism was strictly forbidden and very unpopular.[citation needed] Although neo-Nazism in Germany mostly focuses on racial and political intolerance, neo-Nazism in Serbia is mostly based on national and religious factors.[52] Nacionalni stroj (National Alignment), a neo-Nazi organization from the Vojvodina region, orchestrated several incidents in 2005. Charges were laid against 18 of the leading members in late 2005, and each of them faced up to eight years in prison.[53] The group was still active in 2007, as was demonstrated by a display of religious hatred.[54]

Blood and Honour has a branch in Serbia, where it is called Krv i čast. Its website claims that the group intends "to propagate revolutionary idea of National Socialism without compromise. Also, the intention of Serbian Blood and Honour Division is to motivate all NS followers to radical activities and not only to passive observing or listening to the music."[55] Since 2001, this organization, with chapters in several Serbian cities, organized several memorial concerts on the anniversary of Adolf Hitler's birth.[56][57]




Check out this article:
In response to Jewish protest, Serbia bans planned neo-Nazi march
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/907636.html

Ok, yes it comes from the liberal, lefty Ha Aretz newspaper, don't bash me for that, but nonetheless, can u prove to me, that this neo-nazi march was not to take place?


Serb authorities slammed: Neo-Nazis hit the streets despite ban   (Serbian authorities fail to quash neo-nazi demoenstration)
http://www.neurope.eu/articles/78826.php
 

Ok. I admit, Russians and Serbians suffered horribly in WWII and would fight to the last man to resist Germans.  Yet, today there is more neo-nazis in these same countries, such as Russia, Ukraine than in Germany.   I understand Serbs are angered over Kosovo, so now they go run to the anti-semitic russians and the nazi movement as an outlet.. Big mistake.

Offline 4International

  • JTFer in Exile
  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2008, 06:52:06 AM »
Shalom AryehYehuda,

Thanks for such a wonderful heart-felt reply. I don't deny that there are a small minority of Serbian neo-Nazis in Serbia but let me tell you after having carefully researched this phenomenon in Serbia, that it is NOT endorsed or in any way officially glorified or celebrated by the Serbian intelligentsia/academia, the Serbian government or for that matter by the Serbian Orthodox church. In fact it is shunned and condemned overwhelmingly by a great majority of the Serbian people.


You must understand also that this phenomenon only really took off after our traitorous leaders in Washington staged a coup de'tat against Milosevic and installed a client regime in Belgrade in October 2000.

These young Serbs - mostly soccer hooligans - were brainwashed by antisemitic propaganda coming from WESTERN  NATO/EU SOURCES blaming the "Jews" as being responsible for the West's anti-Serbian policies since 1990.

Is the evidence that this antisemitic propaganda originated from WESTERN, i.e. US/NATO/EU sources merely a coincidence? I think not.

Check out Jared Israel's site (www.tenc.net ) and Prof. Francisco Gil-White's site (www.hirhome.com ) for the details.

In contrast in Croatia, the government, academia, intelligentsia and the Roman Catholic clergy at all levels to this day glorifies and celebrates the World War 2 Ustasha Nazi regime and they attempt to JUSTIFY or DENY what the Ustasha did to innocent Jews, Serbs and Gypsies. Witness Croat government officials and Croat Roman Catholic Church leaders recently attending and endorsing so called "rock" concerts by Croat neo-Ustasha Nazi band leader Marko Perkovic "Thompson" WHO SINGS SONGS GLORIFYING THE HOLOCAUST IN USTASHA NAZI CROATIA!!


The Croat neo-Ustasha Nazi supporters and their allies the Bosnian muslims and Albanian muslims THROUGH THEIR OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT, RELIGIOUS LEADERS AND OFFICIAL ESTABLISHED MEDIA will blatantly lie through their teeth by engaging in Holocaust denial and revisionism (many Bosnian muslims glorify the Waffen SS divisions "Handschar" and "Kama", whilst many Albanians glorify the Waffen SS Skanderbeg division and the "Balli Kombetar" Albanian WW2 pro-Hitler fascist party).

Do a search on Julia Gorin's blog for "Thompson":

Here are a few links to start with



http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=915

(the above link has photos of 60,000 to 70,000 Croats at a concert in Croatia giving the Sieg-Heil "Za Dom Spremni" [ "for the Homeland We Are Ready" ] Ustasha Nazi salute!!

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=thompson

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/index.php?s=thompson&paged=2






Offline 4International

  • JTFer in Exile
  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2008, 07:01:36 AM »
Shalom AryehYehuda


My apologies, the photos are on this link instead:

http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/?p=914

Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2008, 07:54:13 AM »
Good links.. I will look them over..  I guess I am confused about things..  I know the Bosnians, Croats and most of the Baltic thugs are scum of the earth..  I have read about the Ustashi and the slaughter of Jews and Serbians and the horror involved..  Yes, I don't quite get the situation in Serbia.  I know the ALbanians also claim to have saved many Jews, yet so how can I verify the claims of Serbians saving Jews as any more valid?   What really is bothering me, is this guy who is posting all this has another post saying support Ossetia, a communist regime who rebelled against their motherland, same way Albanians rebelled against Serbians.  And then, the ugly red ape called russia comes in and just snatches the country.  If Serbs done like other countries stealing their country, why do they support the same?  I see the guy calling russia, mama bear, like she is some protector.  Russia has led one of the most atrocious anti-Israel, anti-Jewish regimes in the world and is proud supporter of terrorism and ahs funded all our arab enemies in every battle.  This guy Dalmicija is sleeping in bed with our vile enemy and I just cannot see how we can be friends with a people who supports Russia.  If I get banned for speaking out against wrongdoings Orthodox Christian/Catholic nations have done to Jews while this guy gets to post how great Russia mama-bear is for protecting the Ossetians, then I think this is no better than any other self-hating lefty Jewish website.  I am thinknig that this site is not like that by all the other good material I  am seeing.  Still some of his comments to me are revolting, saying Jews should not have any leadership positions in Russia, after they have suffered so greatly, contributed so much to the economy and culture, this is pure bigotry, saying Orthodox should rule Orthodox country.  As if, Russians have ruled their country as peace loving Christians.

Offline DALMACIJA

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2008, 09:15:09 AM »
Good links.. I will look them over..  I guess I am confused about things..  I know the Bosnians, Croats and most of the Baltic thugs are scum of the earth..  I have read about the Ustashi and the slaughter of Jews and Serbians and the horror involved..  Yes, I don't quite get the situation in Serbia.  I know the ALbanians also claim to have saved many Jews, yet so how can I verify the claims of Serbians saving Jews as any more valid?   What really is bothering me, is this guy who is posting all this has another post saying support Ossetia, a communist regime who rebelled against their motherland, same way Albanians rebelled against Serbians.  And then, the ugly red ape called russia comes in and just snatches the country.  If Serbs done like other countries stealing their country, why do they support the same?  I see the guy calling russia, mama bear, like she is some protector.  Russia has led one of the most atrocious anti-Israel, anti-Jewish regimes in the world and is proud supporter of terrorism and ahs funded all our arab enemies in every battle.  This guy Dalmicija is sleeping in bed with our vile enemy and I just cannot see how we can be friends with a people who supports Russia.  If I get banned for speaking out against wrongdoings Orthodox Christian/Catholic nations have done to Jews while this guy gets to post how great Russia mama-bear is for protecting the Ossetians, then I think this is no better than any other self-hating lefty Jewish website.  I am thinknig that this site is not like that by all the other good material I  am seeing.  Still some of his comments to me are revolting, saying Jews should not have any leadership positions in Russia, after they have suffered so greatly, contributed so much to the economy and culture, this is pure bigotry, saying Orthodox should rule Orthodox country.  As if, Russians have ruled their country as peace loving Christians.

The Vatican was main responsible to the lauch of communism on Russian and Serbian soil! David Duke and others want to blame the Jews for the faults of the West.

You Jews were for 2000 prosecuted by the Vatican and we Orthodox nation were for 1000 years long prosecuted by the same Vatican.

We have common enemies.

Offline 4International

  • JTFer in Exile
  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2008, 09:23:06 AM »
"I know the ALbanians also claim to have saved many Jews, yet so how can I verify the claims of Serbians saving Jews as any more valid?"

Shalom AryehYehudah,

See here for an answer to this Albanian claim by Serbian historian Carl Savich here:

http://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/060.shtml


and by 4International writer Max Rosenthal here:

Zero Jews in Kosovo Today

http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/zero-jews-in-kosovo-today/

and by Prof. Francisco Gil-White here:

Should Jews support an independent Kosovo?

http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/suicide.htm



Regarding Georgia, while I can understand your contempt for everything Russian and the Russian Orthodox Church because of the terrible oppression that you and your family suffered in the former Soviet Union, you must not allow your judgement to be clouded on what really happened in Ossetia and what the Georgian government did BEFORE the Russians sent their troops in.

Did you know that in early August he ordered the attack on hundreds of sleeping civilians in the middle of the night with artillery and rockets and by doing so he wiped out the Jewish Qaurter - home of 20 Jewish families - in Tskhinvali, the Ossetian capital along with hundreds of other civilians of all nationalities?  (some reports estimate at least 2 thousand people killed in the initial Georgian artillery and rocket attack)

http://4international.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/jewish-quarter-in-tskhinvali-is-levelled-by-nato-financed-georgia/

This happened several days BEFORE   the Russians sent their troops over the border.There are reports now coming out from the European OSCE which confirm all of the above as being true.Did you know that our leaders in Washington gave the go ahead to Saakashvili to launch this provocative attack against civilains in order to destabilize Russia and that we are trying to surround Russia with NATO strategic weaponry like the missiles we are basing in Poland which are ultimately targeted at Russia?

The aim of all of this activity by Washington is to weaken and ultimately break up Russia and take over the entire continent of Eurasia as envisaged by Zbigniew Brzezisnski in his 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard. READ THIS BOOK - IT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES AS TO WHAT WE ARE DOING IN FORMER SOVIET REPUBLICS ON RUSSIA's DOORSTEP IN ORDER TO BREAK RUSSIA APART. Did you know that Brzezinski is Obama's foreign policy advisor? Were you aware that Saakashvili  - the US/NATO installed leader of Georgia - is really a despicable fascist-like dictator and thug who crushes any and all opposition to his regime with terror tactics? 



While we may despise Russia for her support of Israel's enemies and her antsemitism during the era of the Tzar and to a lesser extent during the USSR era, trying to provoke Russia by launching attacks on her borders via our proxies is risking World War 3. Even Olmert's government was smart enough to withdraw Israeli military support of Saakashvili's regime several days before Washington gave the go ahead for his murderous attack which wiped out the entire Jewish Quarter in Tskhinvali. We Jews and Israelis need to steer well clear of supporting such murderous leaders as Saakashvili even if it means we upset Washington. If you recall , Ariel Sharon was totally against our support of the Albanian muslims, the drug dealing KLA and our 78 day bombing campaign against Serbian civilian targets which resulted in the deaths of several thousand Serbian men, women and young children. A terrible crime against humanity which Russia also never forgot nor forgave the traitorous leaders in Washington for perpetrating.


While we Jews on JTF are totally justified in attacking Russia and Putin for his reprehensible support of Iran, Syria and other Islamofascist despotic regimes in the Middle East who are enemies of Israel, we must also understand that our traitorous leaders in Washington have also been covertly supporting Iran and working in co-operation with the Islamofascist Iranian religious mullahs for decades, as for example in Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. We must also acknowledge that expanding NATO right up to Russia's borders, basing strategic missiles in Poland and supporting Saakashvili's attack on South Ossetia - which was really an attack on Russia by proxy - was and is a terrible mistake that could lead us - G-d forbid - into a catastrophic nuclear war with Russia.


Shalom,

Joshua.

Offline cjd

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 8996
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2008, 09:38:52 AM »
The Vatican was main responsible to the lauch of communism on Russian and Serbian soil! David Duke and others want to blame the Jews for the faults of the West.

You Jews were for 2000 prosecuted by the Vatican and we Orthodox nation were for 1000 years long prosecuted by the same Vatican.

We have common enemies.
When all reasonable argument fails blame it on the Vatican  ;D
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

A light on to the nations for 60 years


Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2008, 11:15:34 AM »
Aryeh, you should definitely check out Julia Gorin's blog.  She's right wing, Jewish, and is an expert on Serbia/Albania. 

The reason there's a Save Serbia section here is that Chaim Ben Pesach feels VERY strongly about supporting the Serbs.  As I understand it, and perhaps the other Serbs here can back me up, during WWII, the Serbs protected the Jews, and managed to kill quite a few nazis.  The Serbs were also America's allies in both World Wars.  They would shelter downed American pilots, whereas the Albanians would turn them into the Nazis. 

The fact that Bill Clinton had these people bombed to create a moosie narco terror state is a travesty.  If it can happen in Europe, it can certainly happen to Israel, with her growing Arab population. 

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2008, 12:48:37 PM »
One thing must be cleared out: JTF does not support Russia at all. Dlamacija's has his own views about poxy Russia which I am not sure even the other Serbs here share with him.

However it is completely unjustified to blame Serbs for the crimes which had been committed by the Russians. The While the Russians, and the Russian Orthodox Church were rabid anti-Jewish for hundreds of years, the Serbs who are also Orthodox Christians have been traditionally among the most tolerant folk in Europe. 

Offline george_jtf

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2008, 02:18:57 PM »
AryehYehudah should really start reading more and read things backed up by facts, not fiction...
The easiest thing to do is to say "they did this, they did that", but proving it is a whole another story.

1. Franjo Tudjman, former Croatian president who died 10 years ago wrote a book (you can probably find it on the internet) where he claims that the Holocaust is a myth created to give jews a pity from the world. In that same book, he claimed that only 50,000 Serbs, Jews, Croats and Gypsies were killed in Nazi Croatia during WWII. Obviously, we all know that this ain't the truth..How else can over 1,000,000 Serbs, 90,000 Jews, 60,000 Gypsies dissapear by the end of the war in WWII? Maybe it is just me, but there is something wrong there.
2. In an open rally right before Croatia declared independence in 1990's, Tudjman said that he is happy to know that his wife is not a Serb, Jew or a dog.....and this is the guy whom our own US government supported and sent retired generals to train croatian military. Again, something just ain't right.
3. The synagogue in croatian capital Zagreb was bombed during the war. Those Jews who did not leave Croatia for Israel moved to Serbia. Obviously, they did not move to Serbia, which according to you is an anti-semite nation, because they wanted to be looked upon as second-class citizens, but rather that they felt a lot more safe in Serbia than in pro-nazi Croatia.
4. I had a priviledge to meet Major Richard Felman, an US Air Force pilot in WWII, who was shut down and was rescued by Chetniks eventhough he was told by his superiors prior to his mission that Chetniks would turn US pilots and soldiers over to the Germans. He found out that those were all lies and was one of 500 US pilots saved by the chetniks eventhough they were betrayed by the Allies after 1943.
5. Events such as the Sarajevo breadline massacre were blamed on the Serbs first by the media, then by most of the world.  Shortly after this, US openly supported Bosnian Muslims. Not even one month later, it was proven by facts (not fiction) clearly documented by the UN that the massacre was organized and executed by Bosnian Muslims to get the world's opinion on their side. UN commanders in Bosnia during the civil war warned the Bosnian Muslims that if such events occured again, they will no longer be able to stop the Serbs.
6. How can Serbs attack Bosnia, Croatia and Kosovo if Serbs have lived there for over a millenium? It is an oxymoron. Let's be honest, when you or most of the world says the word Bosnians, they right away think of Bosnian Muslims, eventhough Bosnian Muslims only make up around 43% of the Bosnian population? Oh, and how can Serbs in Bosnia conquer 67% of Bosnia if Serbs owned 67% of Bosnian soil? See, there is something there that just doesn't make sense. This is a well documented fact. How? Because Serbs and Croats in Bosnia were predominantly farmers while Bosnian Muslims were predominantly merchants in big towns. And have you checked how these Bosnian Muslims came to Bosnia? They are not true Muslims from Middle East, but rather Serbs and Croats who converted to Islam and treated their own brethren worse than the Turks to show their loyalty. For many Serbs, these Bosnian Muslims are traitors to their own people who converted to Islam for a better life.

I have seen some of these neo-Nazi Serbs in Serbia, but large majority of Serbs, as high as 98%,  look at them as bunch of uneducated idiots who have nothing better to do with their life. Even the Serbian Radical Party officials were invited to Israel, not the Croats or Muslims. Why? You should ask yourself that question.

the problem with your opinion is that you seem to claim things without any factual proof.

One thing that Hitler said was "good thing is that people are stupid, otherwise I would have never come to power"

As an American of Serbian descent, I am a proud supporter of Israel. Why? Because like Serbs, Israel is a nation which is a big wall standing against Muslim dream of world domination.

Offline AryehYehudah

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Down with Islam, Self-Hating Jews and Jew Haters
    • Arutz Sheva 7 Israel National News
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2008, 06:41:52 PM »

One thing that Hitler said was "good thing is that people are stupid, otherwise I would have never come to power"


Yes Hitler made a famous quote, which holds much truth, "Thank G-d for the leaders, the people cannot think."

Well, I admit I don't know everything about Serbs, but will do research.  I just know about a majority of Orthodox Christian nations were and are still the most virulent anti-semites in the world.  If you don't believe me I can do research and post you many examples of the teachings and history of treatment of JEws by Orthodox Christians.  I don't actually know that Serbia had a different type of Orthodox Christianity than the Russians.  Actually, Dalmacija is probably the first Serb I ever conversed with personally, either online or in real life, so maybe he gave me a bad impression of your people.  He seems very anti-American, pro-Russia and even supports Islam.  I am sorry if I have been misled.  You know I have conversed with many Orthodox Christians all over the world and so many of them treat me with contempt and many have insulted me and called me the most horrible names, like "Christ Killer".  I talked with this Russian Orthodox man here in USA, who asked me, "Why did I murder his Jesus?"  and "When will they stop hurting those poor people in Palestine."   

I am just reading time and time again, how Serbia and Russia are now staunch allies.  How can Jews be friends with a person who is friends of our enemy?  This is why I disregarded Serbs as any ally or friend.  I can be wrong, I am known to be wrong and will try to learn more.  If most Serbians oppose being allies with Russia and they don't teach demonic doctrines in the church against Jews, then I will support and befriend them.

The thing that Dalmacija said that [censored] me off the most , is "Why should Jews be leaders in an Orthodox Christian country."  He was referring to Russia, a land where Jews paid taxes, lost their villages, homes, women raped.  A country where they contributed so much culture and even would fight to defend.  I was telling him that in Russia, they would not allow people to have high office positions because they had Jewish blood in them, even though their ancestors lived in the country over 1000 years and many suffered with their blood.   I hope most Serbians are different from him.  If any Jew would give his life fighting for Serbia, are you to say he or his offspring should not hold a high pollitical office in Serbia, assuming he and his ancestors lived there for many, many generations and he fluently spoke your language and was part of your culture?     This man also is calling Russia , mama bear and celebrating the destruction of our ally and only pro-Israel eastern european country, named Georgia.  Do many Serbs, call Russia, mama bear and enjoy watching Georgia invaded, like how Serbia  was?

Pardon my ignorance, I don't know a whole lot of Serbs, except what I have read on news and from the posts from this guy.  It was not part of the world that I have concentrated on, but now I will look at more.  I would find it interesting that Israel can have an ally who has a religion of Orthodoxy Christianity, since about over 90% of Orthodox countries are not friends at all with Israel, except for Georgia, perhaps.   Israel's Orthodox Enemies: Russia, Ukraine, Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Macedonia, Syria, Belarus, Moldova and others, I have also not mentioend.   All these churches have highly anti-semitic doctrines and have a long history of causing many hardships and oppressing the Jewish people.  I hope there is exceptions.  As of late, I know many Coptic Christians in Egypt have warmed to Jewish people, not that their doctrine loves Jews, but because how Muslims have been oppressing them, they feel that Jews are now perhaps their greatest and closest ally.  However, even in many conversations with them, I will be asked, "Why did we murder Zeus Jesus?"

Offline Lisa

  • Forum Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9373
    • The Urban Grind
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2008, 06:45:36 PM »
I don't blame you for being skeptical Aryeh.  But stick around, check out the links put up on this thread, and continue to ask questions.  You can ask Chaim a question on the next Ask JTF. 

Offline 4International

  • JTFer in Exile
  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1115
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2008, 08:11:06 AM »
“The well-orchestrated and well-engineered demonization of the Serbs is a warning to all Jews who want Israel to continue to exist. Israel can become a target.”

“Those deliberately promoting radical Islam in Europe will promote radicalism and Islam everywhere.”


Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics
Yohanan Ramati

BULLETIN OF THE JERUSALEM INSTITUTE FOR WESTERN DEFENSE
A Comparative Case Study of The Yugoslav
and Middle East Crises
Volume 9, Bulletin No. 4
December, 1996.


http://www.serbianunity.net/news/world_articles/ramati.html

excerpts below:


Statesmen, politicians and journalists have lied deliberately throughout human history. Indeed, human history, usually written by unprincipled victors, contains so many falsehoods that the search for truth often becomes an impossible task. Even the currently accepted axioms are false. the lies of democratic statesmen are often as monumental as the lies of the most tyrannical dictators. In both cases, the motives are love of power and greed.

The age of rapid air transportation, television and computers has created a world in which cheating all the people all the time is easier than at any time in history, while cheating most people most of the time is the normative political phenomenon.

So truth has become what Washington wants it to be. When it does not correspond to the facts, the facts are buried beneath a barrage of television, radio and press propaganda kowtowing to Big Brother.

In principle, there is little to distinguish today’s US propaganda about the Yugoslav crisis or West European propaganda about the Middle East crisis (with which the US is often in tactic sympathy) from the propaganda of Goebbels, Stalin or, for that matter, the Ayatollah Khomeini and Saddam Hussein. The lies are equally outrageous, the half-truths are equally misleading and the goals are fundamentally the same - more power and more money for those who dictate policy.

US policy-makers and power brokers protect themselves by a smoke screen of lies disseminated in the press and media.

This comparative case study is necessary not only because the parallels between the history of Serbia and the history of the Jews in the land of King David and King Solomon are too many to be ignored, but also since the attitude of the Western powers - and in particular the US - to both the Yugoslav and the Middle Eastern crisis is largely determined by the pro-Muslim bias of their policy-makers and power brokers.

Whether or not the Albanians in Kosovo claim to have been there before the Serbs - in fancy dress or otherwise - the facts remain that the cradle of Serb nationalism is in Kosovo, while the cradle of Jewish nationalism is in Judea and Samaria - in Hebron, Jerusalem, Jericho and Shiloh. Kosovo was ethnically cleansed of most of its Serbs. Judea and Samaria were ethnically cleansed of most of their Jews. But this cannot wipe out history and the respective Serb and Jewish claims to these regions.

More recent parallels are even more telling. Both Serbs and Jews fought the Nazis during the Second World War and both Serbs and Jews were the victims of persecution and murder by Hitler and his allies - the Croat “Ustashis” and the Bosnian Muslims. Moreover, the Arabs of the Middle East openly supported Hitler whenever an opportunity arose. Yet both Serbia and Israel were and are being pressed by the Western powers to make territorial concessions to their old-new enemies.

This pressure, which Israel has experienced since its birth in 1948 and Yugoslavia since its dismemberment by American-German fair, has been exerted with the assistance of lying propaganda in the Western media, which utilize the ability technological progress has given them to brainwash ever-increasing masses of the world’s population.

This organized anti-Serb and pro-Muslim propaganda should cause anyone believing in democracy and free speech serious concern. It recalls Hitler’s propaganda against Allies in World War II. Facts are twisted and, when convenient, disregarded. The selectivity in reporting and comment is far too blatant to be accidental.

The well-orchestrated and well-engineered demonization of the Serbs is a warning to all Jews who want Israel to continue to exist. Israel can become a target. Why are Muslim states (unless attacked by other Muslim states) usually portrayed as innocent victims of aggression? why are the outrages they commit ignored or condoned? Is it because media editors, reporters and commentators in democratic states are afraid to risk the wrath of financiers and oil interests sponsoring them? Is democratic public opinion controlled by the few for their own profit?

For Israelis (and some other people usually at the receiving end of similar machinations and hate propaganda, like the Maronite Christians of Lebanon or the whites and the Zulus of South Africa) the answer to this question - i.e. the nature and motives of the perpetrators - could be a matter of life and death. Those deliberately promoting radical Islam in Europe will promote radicalism and Islam everywhere. And the Western partners in this venture believe in the power of money far too much to realize that they are creating a menace that will eventually eliminate them too.

The role of the media in general, and the American media in particular, while these events were occurring was to justify US policy.

Of course, there are differences between the ongoing betrayals of the Israeli Jews, the Lebanese Christians and the Serbs by the West. But viewed against the background of historical trends, these differences are minor. In each case, the basic reasons are the greed of “globalist” business interests involved and allied with Muslim rulers for their personal and institutional profit, and the control exercised by these interests over US and many West European politicians.

The “One World” their propaganda is trying to sell us is a world in which they can decide which states exist and which are destroyed.

In the US, where the general public still does not really like Hitler’s World War II allies and dislikes foreign interventions on behalf of authoritarian states with no pro-American record, this required an organized campaign promoting hatred of Serbs by every technological means and propaganda trick available, whitewashing Croats and depicting the Bosnian Muslims as peace loving and US-loving democrats whose women and children were being killed by Serb war criminals. The technique of the Goebbelsian “Big Lie” was applied shamelessly, ruthlessly and effectively.

Full article available here:

http://www.serbianunity.net/news/world_articles/ramati.html

Offline george_jtf

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 218
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2008, 02:37:53 PM »
AryehYehudah, you have asked why do the Serbs support Russia and the "civil" war in Georgia? Why do serbs support a country which attacked Georgia, which is pro-Israeli?

Again, it seems that you do not know the history of the region enough and the politics behind it.

The answer is exactly that: politics.

It has a lot to do with which side supports which side.
Ossetia and Abkhazia were part of Georgia from 1920's (as a gift from Stalin to his homeland Georgia) 'till the early 1990's. It was "never" part of Georgia before the Russian Revolution in 1917. Why does US support Georgia? Because of the  (a) pipelines that go through Georgia from Central Asia, (b) geopolitical location of Georgia.  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Take my word, Georgians are not pro-Israeli, that is just bunch of bs. The only reason that seems to make sense is because of the military industry because Georgia got some of its weapons and military training from Israel.

Why is USA pro-muslim? Again, oil and money. If it wasn't, the Middle-East conflict would have been resolved many years ago. It wasn't Israel which tried to conquer most of Europe, but the Arab and Turkish Muslims. As long as there is need for oil and muslims are given open hands to do as they wish, the conflict will not be resolved. Without oil, there is no money. Without money, there are no weapons. Without weapons, there is no war.

Problems in former Yugoslavia would have been resolved without a single shot if it was in the interest of US and the West. Wars need weapons and weapons mean $$$$$$. The Western countries also needed the war in Bosnia and Kosovo to please their so-called allies in Middle East. You have no idea just how many mosques, that have been built in post-war Yugoslavia, were built with Saudi money.

Serbs did not ask for the US and the West to be pro-serb, but rather neutral. If it was neutral, wars in bosnia, croatia, Serbia (Kosovo) would not have occured because Croats, Muslims, and Albanians knew that they could not win against the Serbs. If you don't believe it, please look deeper into the history of the conflict and see that it makes more sense....

It is one thing to attack a country and another to defend yourself. I can bet that you have no idea whatsoever how long has each of these ethnic groups lived in those areas and why is there a conflict. Look for yourself much deeper in the conflict and you will see that some things just don't make sense when you look at the media reports and what the historical facts say. I have personally stopped reading and watching news on tv or papers. I only trust news on the internet because there are more than one source which gives different points of view. Obviously, US media is not going to be anti-US government although many of us would like news to be neutral, but it isn't.

The strong connection between Serbs and Russians goes back even before American Revolution.

Would you feel the same if Russia was pro-Israeli and US pro-muslim?

Again, it is all politics.

Imagine tomorrow that you are a Jew living in Germany. All of a sudden, Germany uses the same flag and ideology as during the Nazis, but yet it says that it is democratic. I am pretty positive that you would not feel very comfortable. That is exactly what happened in Croatia where croatian government used the same anthem, currency and flag as they did during the Croatian Nazi government between April 1941 and May 1945, which is responsible for the concentration camps in NDH, which account for more than 1 million Serbs (fact which is supported by the Holocaust Memorial Centers), 90,000 Jews, 60,000 Gypsies.  They used those same things in the 1990's when the conflicts in ex-Yu started.

As someone of Serbian descent who lives in USA, I never would say that "all Americans" are anti-Serb because that would make me an idiot and a bigot. I support my country and the Constitution.  The problem is those in the power/government who are misinforming its own citizens. Believe me, if we knew all the little but extremely important facts about various conflicts in the world, we wouldn't support majority of our own government's foreign policies.

Offline Djape

  • Junior JTFer
  • **
  • Posts: 86
    • Photos
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2008, 07:13:28 PM »
@george_jtf  - Great post.


I don't understand where this "Serbs are all anti Jew" Comes from??
Throughout my whole life i have never been anti Jew, nor do i know of any Serbs who are.

I'm sure you can find some, but you can always find someone who is anti anything if you look hard enough.

But most Serbs i know have strong support and understanding for what Jews have gone through.

Every brother is a deceiver, and every friend a slanderer.
(Jeremiah 9:4)

Offline MasterWolf1

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8766
  • RESIST NOW!!!
Re: Why is there a Save Serbia?
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2008, 12:25:27 AM »
Do me a favor, please do not lump Christians and especially Catholics and trying divide people.   We are here and we are united.  By the way AryehYehudah, I am Catholic and my resume speaks high volumes with my fight for Jewish causes more then I fight for Christian causes.  And please do not go and start attacking the Vatican that is not going to get you far around here.  We either going to work together or we will have our enemies work us over.  Your choice Bubba.  I want us working together we got an enemy that wants us all dead.
RIGHT WING AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT. IF YOU WANTED TO PROVE YOU WEREN'T A "RACIST" IN 2008 BY VOTING FOR OBAMA, THEN PROVE IN 2012 YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT FOR VOTING AGAINST OBAMA!