SHAME: Haredi men discovered secretly surfing tabooed sites

[Fonzworth]

Haredi men discovered secretly surfing tabooed sites

Ultra-Orthodox residents of Bnei Brak found sneaking into Bar-Ilan University, exploiting Student Union computer lab to view pornographic material


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3600077,00.html

                                             

-I don't mean to put anyone on display, but some of these Haredi take part in "modesty patrols" that condemn women and trash businesses they deem to be immoral.

[Fonzworth]

                                         

                                          Late night visit at Bar-Ilan University

[muman613]

Ooo Ooo...

So what are you trying to say? That they are all like this? The truth is that internet porn is very dangerous and anyone wanting to maintain spiritual purity should avert their eyes from such smut. I myself have had issues with this problem and think it is very sad.

muman613

PS: Ynet news always does whatever it can to malign the religious. I dont read that rag anymore.

PPS: Why do you keep posting images which are examples of Jews who have gone off the path? Are you on a mission to prosecute the Jews?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I have to agree with you here, this seems like a sarcastic and mocking thread.

[Fonzworth]

Ooo Ooo...

So what are you trying to say? That they are all like this? The truth is that internet porn is very dangerous and anyone wanting to maintain spiritual purity should avert their eyes from such smut. I myself have had issues with this problem and think it is very sad.

muman613

PS: Ynet news always does whatever it can to malign the religious. I dont read that rag anymore.

PPS: Why do you keep posting images which are examples of Jews who have gone off the path? Are you on a mission to prosecute the Jews?

I don't mean to attack anyone or to put anyone on display, but some of these Haredi take part in "modesty patrols" that condemn women and trash businesses they deem to be immoral.

[Ulli]

I have read the article. The language speaks of it's own ...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't mean to attack anyone or to put anyone on display, but some of these Haredi take part in "modesty patrols" that condemn women and trash businesses they deem to be immoral.

Maybe so, but the tone of the posts, and pictures that you used, were flippant and mocking.

[Lisa]

Fonzworth, this is not the first time you've put up such mocking posts.  First there was the one about Israelis doing poorly in school or on standardized tests.  Then there was the post about the Israeli porn Stalags (sp?) comic books.  And now this.  If your purpose in putting up these posts is to mock Jews, then you've come to the wrong place.  So if I see one more post like this from you, it will be your last.

[q_q_]

<snip>
I don't mean to attack anyone or to put anyone on display, but some of these Haredi take part in "modesty patrols" that condemn women and trash businesses they deem to be immoral.

"some of these haredi"

you know haredim are jews.

you could say "some of these jews"

Nobody said that these charedim do modesty patrols.   And anyhow, dressing revealingly in public is something else entirely. That is shameless.

And you post pictures of them hiding away looking at porn?

These charedim are not shameless, they sneaked away to do it. YOU are shameless of the crime that you accuse them of. (remember the pictures of IDF girls you posted?)

In your posts, you have shown that you are

a)Stupid and ignorant (you asked if the next israeli government would be any different to the Olmert one)
b)You shamelessly posted pictures of IDF girls posing. You clearly have no problems with such pictures and putting them on a religious forum.
c)You hate religious jews.

You are a simplistic and disgusting animal

[Ulli]

Under this picture is written: Covert operation (illustration)

If it is no real photo, why they use it? This is    untrustworthy  

[muman613]

Ooo Ooo...

So what are you trying to say? That they are all like this? The truth is that internet porn is very dangerous and anyone wanting to maintain spiritual purity should avert their eyes from such smut. I myself have had issues with this problem and think it is very sad.

muman613

PS: Ynet news always does whatever it can to malign the religious. I dont read that rag anymore.

PPS: Why do you keep posting images which are examples of Jews who have gone off the path? Are you on a mission to prosecute the Jews?

I don't mean to attack anyone or to put anyone on display, but some of these Haredi take part in "modesty patrols" that condemn women and trash businesses they deem to be immoral.

Shalom Fonzworth,

Yes, I do not know what you intended and I will give the benefit of the doubt... And I also understand your outrage at the fact that people who are supposed to be so morally upright do immoral and immodest things. But this is the nature of Holiness. It is a challenge to maintain the level which you aspire to. Just because there are elements in the culture which have disobeyed and flagrantly violated several principles doesnt make the entire community guilty of the transgression. While it is true that this is not good for the entire Charedie community it is also a blow to all of Judaism.

I do not gloat over the falling down of people who seek such high spiritual ground. It is something to look at and be saddened. I will daven harder that my brothers and sisters are not tempted by the smut of the nations.

It is the week before Rosh Hashana and true Torah Jews are trying to perfect themselves as we move into the time of heavenly judgement. It is good to forgive all those whom you have offended and accept the apology from those who have wronged you. I will not make any judgement on those who are involved in this transgression. You know they are doing heavy teshuva now.

muman613

[White Israelite]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

I'm not sure the nature of Fonzworths posts, but if these problems exist in Israel, I think they should be addressed and fixed, not ignore them or get offended over them. I don't think the way the post was constructed was professional though.

[q_q_]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

This thread was only created to mock and ridicule Haredim men. There was no scholarly discussion of hypocrisy. Just look at the pics he posted.

[Rubystars]

I don't mean to put anyone on display

And yet that's what you've done.

[White Israelite]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

Right but it's the type of people who think no one else should be able to do something but they think it's acceptable what their doing, or they know what their doing is wrong but they still do it, people are responsible for their own choices, not the media or what's available. It's like drugs, they will always be available, and people who take them get addicted, but it's that persons overall choice to take them in the first place.

I have no sympathy for individuals like that.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Right but it's the type of people who think no one else should be able to do something but they think it's acceptable what their doing, or they know what their doing is wrong but they still do it, people are responsible for their own choices, not the media or what's available. It's like drugs, they will always be available, and people who take them get addicted, but it's that persons overall choice to take them in the first place.

I have no sympathy for individuals like that.

I am not a fan of a lot of what the Haredi do, and I think everybody knows that from my posts, but the manner and style that Fonzworth used was obvious and deliberate. He did not post here to criticize Haredi use of pornography--he came here to mock and make fun of them. That was plain as day from his first two posts.

[Ulli]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

Good point. We all sin sometimes.

But we should know that it is a sin and correct ourselves.

We should never reach the point, where we begin to justify sinning through twisting the rules.

[Fonzworth]

What makes anyone think my post are meant to be mocking, most are meant to be informative?

As for the pics of the girls, I didn't know they would be looked upon so harshly.

and the idea I hate religious Jews is nonsense

If a person wanted to mock religious Jews he would post on a public forum; not on JTF

[White Israelite]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

Good point. We all sin sometimes.

But we should know that it is a sin and correct ourselves.

We should never reach the point, where we begin to justify sinning through twisting the rules.

Right, I had relatives like this, my cousins who were raised modern orthodox and their parents followed strict kosher, my uncle even got very angry when my cousin poured milk while he was eating dinner but then my cousins were telling us how their parents would sneak shrimp or bacon at restaurant while they were sleeping. I wanted to say to my uncle "Do you think God doesn't know what you are doing?"

This is why I say "Do as I say, not as I do", even if a person knows it's wrong, it still makes them a hypocrite because they continue to do it thinking that God doesn't know.

[q_q_]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

Good point. We all sin sometimes.

But we should know that it is a sin and correct ourselves.

We should never reach the point, where we begin to justify sinning through twisting the rules.

Right, I had relatives like this, my cousins who were raised modern orthodox and their parents followed strict kosher, my uncle even got very angry when my cousin poured milk while he was eating dinner but then my cousins were telling us how their parents would sneak shrimp or bacon at restaurant while they were sleeping. I wanted to say to my uncle "Do you think G-d doesn't know what you are doing?"

This is why I say "Do as I say, not as I do", even if a person knows it's wrong, it still makes them a hypocrite because they continue to do it thinking that G-d doesn't know.

Obviously the parents are not keeping strictly kosher. They are not keeping kosher AT ALL..
Not even by loose standards.
And if they sneak away it's probably not to hide from G-d, but to hide from man, to hide from their children.. because they don't want to set a bad example to them. 
That is an unusual and absurd story..

Believe me, keeping kosher it's EASY to not eat pork and bacon.

And who is saying that these Charedim are saying "Do as I say".  Or rather, that they say "Do as I say" in relation to looking at porn.

They aren't telling you not to look at porn. Maybe they wouldn't even if they corrected themselves.

And as I said already. It's not what "they" say, it's what G-D says.

They know that, and so should you.

[White Israelite]

There's a term, it's called "hypocrites".

"Do as we say, not as we do"

Person P could say that one should do as G-D says.

P may then not live up to his own standards. But that doesn't make him a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he contradicted himself either.  There is no evidence that P thinks that his sin was right. He is not a hypocrite reform jew.. who would probably say it's ok, do it in public, and say he is following judaism or the torah in doing that.

Good point. We all sin sometimes.

But we should know that it is a sin and correct ourselves.

We should never reach the point, where we begin to justify sinning through twisting the rules.

Right, I had relatives like this, my cousins who were raised modern orthodox and their parents followed strict kosher, my uncle even got very angry when my cousin poured milk while he was eating dinner but then my cousins were telling us how their parents would sneak shrimp or bacon at restaurant while they were sleeping. I wanted to say to my uncle "Do you think G-d doesn't know what you are doing?"

This is why I say "Do as I say, not as I do", even if a person knows it's wrong, it still makes them a hypocrite because they continue to do it thinking that G-d doesn't know.

Obviously the parents are not keeping strictly kosher. They are not keeping kosher AT ALL..
Not even by loose standards.
And if they sneak away it's probably not to hide from G-d, but to hide from man, to hide from their children.. because they don't want to set a bad example to them. 
That is an unusual and absurd story..

Believe me, keeping kosher it's EASY to not eat pork and bacon.

And who is saying that these Charedim are saying "Do as I say".  Or rather, that they say "Do as I say" in relation to looking at porn.

They aren't telling you not to look at porn. Maybe they wouldn't even if they corrected themselves.

And as I said already. It's not what "they" say, it's what G-D says.

They know that, and so should you.

I don't see what's absurd about it, the story it's self is true from my own experiences. The children are rebelling against the parents because of their experience and how they view Judaism because of the way their parents raised them. They were raised religious but the children knew what their parents were doing. My cousin Brian rebelled by dating a non Jew and his father was angry, she was crying about it saying that Brians dad rejected her and that she felt discriminated, I tried to explain to her how Jews are only supposed to stay with other Jews. Can I blame my cousin for doing so? Not really, because his perception has been tainted.

Look I'm not trying to demonize anyone here, but it's all about perception. Take for example (and do not take this the wrong way), we know of situations in Catholicism where a corrupt priest has molested one of the kids and the kid loses his interest in religion or the church because of a negative experience.

What i'm trying to say is that these negative experiences and people "neutering" Judaism or not even following standard tradition themselves is causing their kids to flee from the religion. I'm not saying kids should be raised secular either, but it's impossible to say that there aren't individuals out there who call themselves Jews and expect people to act a certain way then don't do so themselves.

[q_q_]

It's absurd for any jew that professes to keep kosher, to sneak out and eat ham or pork at a restaurant.
OK, he he wants to hide, but It's not like a sex drive that one has to live with and deal with / manage. 

It's pretty easy to not eat a certain food (assuming you have other foods to eat!)

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

So the seculars look at porn openly.   Then they condemn religious haredim who sneak away from their own communities where it isn't allowed and look at it secretly (or at least tried to get away with it).   These guys who are sneaking out to look at porn aren't telling anybody else to do anything.  They're obviously rebels who don't even tell themselves to do anything.   Or they simply caved in to the temptation.  So it's ridiculous to say haredim are all hypocrites over 2 guys from bnei brak who gave in to the temptation of porn - which the seculars regularly surf into without even trying not to or without even thinking it's problematic.   So from the atheist point of view, what's so bad about it that a religious guy does it, if it's not bad for a secular guy to do it?   Atheists are often incapable of making sense.

Fonzworth considering you posted pictures objectifying the Jewish women of the IDF on this forum, (so it's easy to assume that you don't believe modesty is a relevant issue at all) can you tell me how you can condemn religious Jew who goes astray and looks up porn?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

What else do people expect from ynet, and the rest of the scumm. Those who write these things, and those who publicize, do soo only diliberatly in order to put down religious looking Jews- which then makes it a put down to all Religious Jews.
 Its like they have a big party anytime someone with a Kippa does something wrong. Then right away they extend it to all Religious Jews, etc. Its 100% like the goyim treated Jews (expecially in Europe). If 1 Jew did something bad, all Jews became scumm. If one Jew not only did something bad, but was accused of something right away they said look at those Jews (It all stems from hatred, jealousy, and also their conscious is killing them, so by saying ans promoting something like this they then say see even "they" do things like this soo it is not that bad).
  Also what these people dont realise is that they have no Olam Haba for what they are writing and posting.