Author Topic: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette  (Read 5886 times)

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Offline 4International

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Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette

Shalom sister Paulette,

I have asked several Serbs here whether or not they are against America or the American people or whether they hold ALL of us Americans responsible for what Bill & Hillary Clinton and George Bandar Wahabbi Bush did to Serbia and the Serbian people. The answer was a resounding "NO" and that they only blame "official Washington" and NOT America or the American people for the crimes of Clinton and Bush in supporting the Holocaust denying Tudjman HDZ Ustasha Nazi Croats and the Bosnian and Albanian Islamist Nazi mass murderers in ethnically cleansing over a 1.5 Million Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia/Krajina as well as ethnically cleansing the ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION of Pristina [Kosovo] in Nazi SS fashion, along with  nearly half a Million Serbs from their ancestral spiritual heartland: Kosovo and Metohija.

Nobody likes to see America or the American people atacked by pro-muslim Leftists and Liberals - especially me as I live in this great country and love America and my American brothers and sisters - but to say that we are not allowed to criticize our government in Washington for its anti-American and unconstitutional actions in supporting Nazi terrorist mass murderers like the Albanian KLA, the Bosnian SDA Izetbegovic Islamofascists and the Croatian HDZ Ustasha Nazis is a little draconian.

Sister Paulette, go ahead and criticize and condemn Putin, Medevedev and the Russian government all you like for its support of Iran but please do not fall into the same trap as our brother AryehYehudah did and start saying things like "Russia is evil" or "ALL Orthodox Christian nations are scumbags who should go to hell with the rest of the Islamo-nazi bastards"

You may or may not be aware of Julia Gorin - she is a conservative American of Jewish heritage and many of her posts are scathing in their criticisms not merely of Clinton and the entire Democratic party but also of Bush and the Republican party for siding with the Islamofascist terrorist enemies of America in the Balkans and Middle East.

Some here would probably describe Julia gorin's posts as "anti-American" or "America-bashing" but they are actually NOT about bashing America and the American people at all. It is about making sure that our politicians are held accountable and these crimes by our government's leaders and bureaucrats are exposed and that they do not get repeated over and over again with monotonous regularity.

Here are a few quotes by famous Americans concerning this vitally important issue concerning criticism of our government as it pertains to freedom of speech:

Shalom,

Joshua.

“The Framers [of the Constitution] knew that free speech is the friend of change and revolution. But they also knew that it is always the deadliest enemy of tyranny.”

“Paramount among the responsibilities of a free press is the duty to prevent any part of the government from deceiving the people and sending them off to distant lands to die of foreign fevers and foreign shot and shell.”

Hugo  LaFayette Black - American Jurist, Lawyer and Politician best known for his absolutist belief in the Bill of Rights as a guarantor of freedom of speech, 1886-1971
 
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

Theodore Roosevelt, Jr. (1858-10-27 – 1919-01-06), also known as T.R. or Teddy, was the 26th President of the United States (1901–1909).


"In every country where man is free to think and to speak, differences of opinion will arise from difference of perception, and the imperfection of reason; but these differences when permitted, as in this happy country, to purify themselves by free discussion, are but as passing clouds overspreading our land transiently and leaving our horizon more bright and serene."

"In every country where man is free to think and to speak, differences of opinion will arise from difference of perception, and the imperfection of reason; but these differences when permitted, as in this happy country, to purify themselves by free discussion, are but as passing clouds overspreading our land transiently and leaving our horizon more bright and serene."

"Difference of opinion leads to enquiry, and enquiry to truth; and that, I am sure, is the ultimate and sincere object of us both. We both value too much the freedom of opinion sanctioned by our Constitution, not to cherish its exercise even where in opposition to ourselves."


Thomas Jefferson (April 13, 1743 – July 4, 1826)[1] was the third President of the United States (1801–1809), the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776) was this nation's greatest champion of representative democracy and the rights of man. He was our most eloquent spokesman on the founding principles of American self-government and one of the most influential Founding Fathers for his promotion of the ideals of republicanism in the United States.

Offline knindza87

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2008, 09:36:22 AM »
Exactly Joshua,you got the point.That's just the way it is.I also want to thank Shlomo for putting down the madness,that has been ongoing in previous topic with his kind words.That topic almost separated JTF'ers here on 2 blocks,and made some members forgot why are we all here.I hope that everyone will leave that behind now and start discussing real problems.

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2008, 09:37:09 AM »
Exactly Joshua,you got the point.That's just the way it is.I also want to thank Shlomo for putting down the madness,that has been ongoing in previous topic with his kind words.That topic almost separated JTF'ers here on 2 blocks,and made some members forgot why are we all here.I hope that everyone will leave that behind now and start discussing real problems.

I agree...

Offline SerbChicago

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2008, 09:40:38 AM »
I agree too.
The truth,justice and Serbian way

Offline P J C

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2008, 09:57:15 AM »
Exactly Joshua,you got the point.That's just the way it is.I also want to thank Shlomo for putting down the madness,that has been ongoing in previous topic with his kind words.That topic almost separated JTF'ers here on 2 blocks,and made some members forgot why are we all here.I hope that everyone will leave that behind now and start discussing real problems.
Shlomo closed the topic for a reason. There is no need for 4international to reopen the wound!
"A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but a foolish man's heart directs him toward the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2008, 10:02:24 AM »
We will move forward now but I am glad to see such maturity, strength, and dignity in our members. I am very glad we have such good people as a part of our movement. G-d bless you all.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline 4International

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2008, 10:10:54 AM »
There is no need for 4international to reopen the wound!

Shalom ProJewChristian/Catholic,

brother, before you jump to hasty conclusions about me "re-opening wounds" here, you should be aware brother, that I was three quarters through completing my post when suddenly it was closed by Shlomo (which I applaud by the way). I wanted to make a valid point about our right here on JTF to criticize our own government - which you are entitled to as a fellow JTF'er and as an American to disagree with if you wish - that is your prerogative as a US citizen whose free speech is protected by the Contitution and Bill of Rights - but it is also my right as a Jew and JTF'er here to express my opinion just as much as our dear brothers and sisters of the Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant and Hindu faiths have a right to express their opinions.



Shalom,

Joshua.

Offline Kerber

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2008, 11:17:38 AM »
Joshua,

Julia Gorin is a true patriot and she gives an example of patriotism.

Offline 4International

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2008, 11:28:10 AM »
"Julia Gorin is a true patriot and she gives an example of patriotism."


Shalom brother Kerber,

I know and totally agree 100% with your statement above. Julia is a wonderful and TRULY CONSERVATIVE American commentator and not the phony ones that Chaim has repeatedly exposed in his videos. I invite my fellow JTF'ers here to please take some time to visit Julia Gorin's magnificent blog:


http://www.juliagorin.com/wordpress/


Take a look at the latest articles by Julia - they aren't very kind to our leaders in Washington - so please be WARNED fellow American JTF'ers,  lest you think - G-d forbid! - that Julia is somehow "anti-American" or engaging in "America-bashing".  :o
Shalom,

Josh.



Offline AsheDina

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2008, 11:40:14 AM »

  I am a Daughter of the American Revolution. My fathers side of my family has been here for over 500 years.  What I saw here- is just as I said- nasty words about America- WE ALL HATE CLINTON & BUSHs Guts- anybody knows this on the JTF.  When I was very ill, I spent a lot of time in paltalk chat-rooms, and I AM SORRY, but those chat-rooms are LEFTIST, & what I saw HERE on this side of the forum was out-n-out slander AGAINST America. 
    My family is also Military for 220 plus years here in USA- MANY military people- actually ALL Military people believe in the Act of Sedition during Wartime- well, so do I.  A LOT of the members AGREED WITH ME that are AMERICAN. If you are an AMERICAN, you know that our nation is in DIRE straits- most conservatives get their voice shut OUT TOTALLY.  I am ALSO ALLOWED MY FREE SPEECH- it IS the USA that paved the WAY so that OTHERS could have what we have had, my family fought and DIED for it, & I will too. You want YOUR free speech people- PRACTICE with ACOUNTABILITY, knowing that Americans that are DEVASTATED over our country becoming DEBAUCHEROUS- and people voting in a moslem pig- half of us cant even see straight.   People are SO caloused as to what is happening to G-d fearing Jews and Christians makes me SICK.
    People all over the WORLD ARE suffering b/c of OUR fall.  People in OTHER nations that are here- MIGHT want to take into account that most of us 'terrible' Americans are sad, depressed, oppressed, and DEVASTATED.  You WANT to feel 'bad & sorry' for a nation?? well- feel sorry and bad for the people of the USA that LOVE what we WERE, not what this place of sin run amok has become.
  I dont want to fight for the 'sake of fighting' 4International: But I WILL FIGHT FOR AMERICA- and the more resistance I get- the MORE I WILL FIGHT.
  Go ahead and criticize senators, and statesmen, I DONT CARE.  Criticize Bush- FINE- but do it in a way that AMERICANS that are YOUNGER & learning what is going on dont get hurt in the process of the slander- I read too, it was NOT hard to see the Anti-American Rhetoric.

  I might REMIND people- that there is a CHAT ROOM here.  Utilize THAT.

  I cannot apologize. I regret that I have only ONE life to lose for my America, b/c NOW I MUST come to the AID of my forefathers, and fathers.
  I AM SURE that there are good people that are Serbian, but Americans dont put them down, do they? NO. Give respect- GET respect.
Shalom- I AM DONE here.
SHEMA ISRAEL
שמע ישראל
I endorse NO Presidential Candidates

Offline 4International

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2008, 11:43:57 AM »
We will move forward now but I am glad to see such maturity, strength, and dignity in our members. I am very glad we have such good people as a part of our movement. G-d bless you all.

Shalom brother Shlomo,

Wonderful comment. That is why I know in my heart and soul that JTF'ers are truly G-d's people here doing Hashem G-d's work here on this site -  and that is why WE AT JTF ARE MUCH, MUCH STRONGER than our Islamofascist and Nazi enemies and that is why TRUTH, JUSTICE and G-d's way will prevail in this world - because of strong, moral, conscientious, decent and righteous people - Gentile and Jew alike - here on this GREAT forum.

UNITED WE STAND, brothers and sisters of JTF!!

VICTORY IS OURS - MAY G-D BLESS ALL OF US AND GIVES US STRENGTH, HOPE AND COURAGE TO FIGHT NOBLY AND HONORABLY FOR WHAT IS RIGHT!!


Shalom!!

Joshua.

Offline 4International

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2008, 12:16:36 PM »

  I am a Daughter of the American Revolution. My fathers side of my family has been here for over 500 years.  What I saw here- is just as I said- nasty words about America- WE ALL HATE CLINTON & BUSHs Guts- anybody knows this on the JTF.  When I was very ill, I spent a lot of time in paltalk chat-rooms, and I AM SORRY, but those chat-rooms are LEFTIST, & what I saw HERE on this side of the forum was out-n-out slander AGAINST America. 
    My family is also Military for 220 plus years here in USA- MANY military people- actually ALL Military people believe in the Act of Sedition during Wartime- well, so do I.  A LOT of the members AGREED WITH ME that are AMERICAN. If you are an AMERICAN, you know that our nation is in DIRE straits- most conservatives get their voice shut OUT TOTALLY.  I am ALSO ALLOWED MY FREE SPEECH- it IS the USA that paved the WAY so that OTHERS could have what we have had, my family fought and DIED for it, & I will too. You want YOUR free speech people- PRACTICE with ACOUNTABILITY, knowing that Americans that are DEVASTATED over our country becoming DEBAUCHEROUS- and people voting in a moslem pig- half of us cant even see straight.   People are SO caloused as to what is happening to G-d fearing Jews and Christians makes me SICK.
    People all over the WORLD ARE suffering b/c of OUR fall.  People in OTHER nations that are here- MIGHT want to take into account that most of us 'terrible' Americans are sad, depressed, oppressed, and DEVASTATED.  You WANT to feel 'bad & sorry' for a nation?? well- feel sorry and bad for the people of the USA that LOVE what we WERE, not what this place of sin run amok has become.
  I dont want to fight for the 'sake of fighting' 4International: But I WILL FIGHT FOR AMERICA- and the more resistance I get- the MORE I WILL FIGHT.
  Go ahead and criticize senators, and statesmen, I DONT CARE.  Criticize Bush- FINE- but do it in a way that AMERICANS that are YOUNGER & learning what is going on dont get hurt in the process of the slander- I read too, it was NOT hard to see the Anti-American Rhetoric.

  I might REMIND people- that there is a CHAT ROOM here.  Utilize THAT.

  I cannot apologize. I regret that I have only ONE life to lose for my America, b/c NOW I MUST come to the AID of my forefathers, and fathers.
  I AM SURE that there are good people that are Serbian, but Americans dont put them down, do they? NO. Give respect- GET respect.
Shalom- I AM DONE here.

Shalom sister Paulette,

Great reply there.I get your mesasage and I understand where you are coming from. I wish that there were more brave men and women in America like you, dear sister. Our country has been infiltrated by Globalist Communists and National Socialists [Nazis]for decades, which sadly has made many men weak and turned them into pathetic politically correct, spineless, dumbed-down and gutless effeminate wimps.That is why we elected someone like William Jefferson Clinton back in 1992. We must understand that this dumbing-down and feminization of men was planned and it was deliberate policy by the Globalists in the CFR, Bilderberg Group and Trilateral Commission [the Globalist tax-exempt "Ford Foundation" -  funded the beginnings of the so-called "feminist movement" in America which led to spineless leaders like Bill Clinton].

I feel sorrow - deep sorrow - for my country and feel deeply hurt and sorry for what has happened to it over many decades - how the Globalists turned it into the moral cesspool that it has become - with Liberals, Leftists and Globalist "one-world-government" promoters constantly attacking our great nation and bringing us to ruin.

Our nation deep down is truly a great nation but our leaders in Washington have betrayed us - selling us out to the Trillionaire Globalists and their partners in crime  - the muslim Oil-rich Arabs in the Middle East.It is SICKENING what we have become thanks to our traitorous leaders in Washington, sister Paulette!

The only "real" choice we have when we vote is Democrat or Republican and BOTH corporate parties have let us down TERRIBLY (although I agree that the Democrats are arguably MUCH worse with their choice of aMUSLIM -  Barack Hussein Obama - who attended an antisemitic Jew-hating and America-hating [false] "Christian" and "Black Theology" church for over 20 years even though he was and still is a MUSLIM!

How can so many American Jews and Gentiles support this MUSLIM who hates America with a passion??!! We all know what the Koran says about Jews and Christians - that they are "INFIDELS" who should be EXTERMINATED!!

How could an AMERICAN political party - supposedly dedicated to the ideals of FREEDOM , LIBERALISM and LIBERTY - nominate such a vile and despicable MUSLIM individual as Barack Hussein Obama for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?! The answer is, I believe, that  it is a symptom of our decadent, degenerate immoral times - promoted for decades by the corporate Liberal/Left mass media and Hollywood - as to what is happening to our entire Western civilization and NOT just America, per se.

That is why we need to PRAY EVERY DAY to G-d so that righteous leaders will rule this great nation and that JTF will become a MASS MOVEMENT, G-d willing, SO WE CAN TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK AND RESTORE IT TO WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS INTENDED - GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE!!!!

Shalom,

Joshua.

Offline Jasmina

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2008, 02:12:43 PM »
  I agree with 4International!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline syyuge

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2008, 02:29:59 PM »
 :) 8) ;D
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Offline AryehYehudah

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008, 02:52:32 PM »
Listen if you Serbs want to attack America, then go ahead.  However, if you want to and deny the atrocities and genocide commited agaisnt Jews by Russia and its Orthodox Russian Empire, than you are going to not only have to fight against me with your lies, but the entire Jewish community.  People are not reading my posts at all.  They keep thinking I am battling with Serbians, because of Anti-American statements.  Sure, I don't like that Serbs come onto a forum funded mainly by conservative American Christians and Jews and insult America.  I think they are bit ungrateful and ill-mannered.  Had it not been for the generosity and sweat and blood of Americans, they would have no forum to come on and complain about the evils of Americans.  I never hear them spend hours crying out about the fact their own Serbian people, reported one of their own generals to The Hague. 

Many Serbians today are doing the same thing as America is doing.  I wish they would have the dignity to address the real enemy, the liberal world.  But, they act cowardly and open their heart to Russia just to spite Americans.  However, Russia had just as much a part of the bombing of their babies as did USA.  They are shortsighted and close-minded.

What I really detest, is to read on a Jewish or pro-Jewish website, so many posts praising and glorifying Russia and denying all the horrible acts done to Jews by its Orthodox church.  Serbians say Russian and Serbian Orthodox Church are the same, but I disagree.  The history of Jews in Russia and Serbia, proves otherwise.  Basically, the Serbs on this board downplay an entire part of Jewish history.  Well, even though many have bashed me on the head for being too confrontational, almost every moderator has just backed up what I said.  Look at Shlomo, for example, he also confirmed that Russia is an evil empire and that they have murdered many Jews.  Can any of you Serbs, tell me if Shlomo is also lying too?  Do you think if the Russians were not taught to think of Jews as "Christ-killers", that the Jews would have been so oppressed like they were?  They would have just integrated like the rest of society, but the Jews had a special problem.

The last thing I want to do is fight and I am sorry that I was disrespectful to the admin, Jasmina.  Please I hope people can forgive me, as my temper got the best of me from what I was reading.  However, I think Dalmacija and SerbChicago were very hostile with threatening to ban me for stating my opinion.  Nobody ever threaten to ban them when they stated opinions that offended Jewish or Christian American members on the board.  Dalmacija openly insulted the Catholic church, yet no Catholics threatened to ban him.  Anyhow, I did not appreciate that and hope that members here stop threatening each other like that.   I thank you Shlomo for intervening.  There must be a more intelligent way to end the postings I feel threaten JTF than by hostility. 

I pray that JTF can succeed and help battle the Anti-Semitism that plagues our world,  from all directions, not just Islam. 

MY PLEA, PERSONAL REQUEST: PLEASE END THE PRO-RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA ON THIS SITE AND STOP THE DENIAL OF THE OPPRESSION AND SUFFERING OF JEWS IN EASTERN EUROPE BY RUSSIANS AND THEIR NEIGHBORS.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 03:21:12 PM by AryehYehudah »

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2008, 03:04:09 PM »
Lets ignore the provocations....

Offline SerbChicago

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2008, 05:25:27 PM »
Lets ignore the provocations....
Yes
The truth,justice and Serbian way

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Free Speech and Criticism of our Government: In reply to Sister Paulette
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2008, 10:23:42 PM »
Very wise decision.

I wanted to allow this thread so that people could get our their closing remarks out of respect.

I will lock this now. I am very proud of how this was handled.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim