How do you deal with unreasonable people at work/school?

[SavetheWest]

I try to get along with most people at work but some people are impossible to deal with!!!

I've been asking someone to do something nicely forever and customers are bugging me to get it done, every day.  I asked over and over and over as nicely as I can and they have no accountability.  The person's boss got into it with me a while back (as she has done with everyone she works with)so I know it won't help to tell her about it.  I finally said, "it's really been a while, since I've asked you.  It's taken a month for something that can be done in 10 min utes. She then calls my boss to say I was rude and I get chewed out.  Then I find out the reason nothing was done was because this black guy responsible for all the information messed it all up.  I tried to say, "hey sorry to bug you again but this is why it happened."  She won't respond and or return my calls now.  I'm seriosuly pissed off.  I do my job and have to get chewed out by lazy morons when I ask for 10 minutes work in one month. 

   

[Debbie Shafer]

NorthWest,  You are not alone!  People at work can be a big pain in the but. They are so concerned about their own self-interests, they cannot do their jobs or get along with those who are trying to do theirs.  Some companies have even given classes to their workers on sexual harassment, and the telling of jokes, especially where they can be misinterpreted by the women.

Its a crazy world anymore......My motto is do your best, and treat people like you would like to be treated.   We are all responsible for our attitutudes and productivity.

[q_q_]

NorthWest,  You are not alone!  People at work can be a big pain in the but. They are so concerned about their own self-interests, they cannot do their jobs or get along with those who are trying to do theirs.  Some companies have even given classes to their workers on sexual harassment, and the telling of jokes, especially where they can be misinterpreted by the women.

Its a crazy world anymore......My motto is do your best, and treat people like you would like to be treated.   We are all responsible for our attitutudes and productivity.

"as they are merciful, so should you be merciful"

no harm with being rude to the rude

If somebody at work says "what dya want?" , then have a stack of responses
"I want all your money, NOW", e.t.c. !

[White Israelite]

Good thing I own my own company

[SavetheWest]

NorthWest,  You are not alone!  People at work can be a big pain in the but. They are so concerned about their own self-interests, they cannot do their jobs or get along with those who are trying to do theirs.  Some companies have even given classes to their workers on sexual harassment, and the telling of jokes, especially where they can be misinterpreted by the women.

Its a crazy world anymore......My motto is do your best, and treat people like you would like to be treated.   We are all responsible for our attitutudes and productivity.

Thanks.  I do have to say that 99% of people are great to work with, it just makes it such a pain when you are stressed at work and one or two people go out of their way to make it harder. 

[SavetheWest]

NorthWest,  You are not alone!  People at work can be a big pain in the but. They are so concerned about their own self-interests, they cannot do their jobs or get along with those who are trying to do theirs.  Some companies have even given classes to their workers on sexual harassment, and the telling of jokes, especially where they can be misinterpreted by the women.

Its a crazy world anymore......My motto is do your best, and treat people like you would like to be treated.   We are all responsible for our attitutudes and productivity.

"as they are merciful, so should you be merciful"

no harm with being rude to the rude

If somebody at work says "what dya want?" , then have a stack of responses
"I want all your money, NOW", e.t.c. !

I see what you're saying.  Just deal with them the same way they deal with you. 

[SavetheWest]

Good thing I own my own company

That's my dream.  Another thing that's awful in companies is when you have someone who hires and promotes all their freinds and family.  The worst is when it's a Muzzie doing that!

[briann]

Good thing I own my own company

Yes... being an entrepeneur is the way to go.   I wonder how many of our members have their own business.

[q_q_]

NorthWest,  You are not alone!  People at work can be a big pain in the but. They are so concerned about their own self-interests, they cannot do their jobs or get along with those who are trying to do theirs.  Some companies have even given classes to their workers on sexual harassment, and the telling of jokes, especially where they can be misinterpreted by the women.

Its a crazy world anymore......My motto is do your best, and treat people like you would like to be treated.   We are all responsible for our attitutudes and productivity.

"as they are merciful, so should you be merciful"

no harm with being rude to the rude

If somebody at work says "what dya want?" , then have a stack of responses
"I want all your money, NOW", e.t.c. !

I see what you're saying.  Just deal with them the same way they deal with you. 

(when something bad is being done towards you) you don't have to be more respectable or more moral than everybody else (in your reaction towards them)..  Don't get trodden on.

That is truly the kahanist way

applicable everywhere.  In a classroom, in the arab-israel conflict, on the streets of brooklyn new york, and in the workplace.

If you are criticised for your behaviour, then you can say they should just as much apply that criticism to that other person too(the person that treated you badly).  If you pay a penalty then you pay a penalty, but you have your respect!

Over the ages, after 2000 years of exile, jews have been the perfect victims. Now we people expect us to be behave nice, (in the middle east, nice is percieved as weak, and that's bad).

jared of amren apparently said that he wants jews in his  organisation because jews are seen as the the moral conscience of the world.
Well, as kahane often said "I want jews to be normal again!"

this is the essence of kahanism. That and that this is the torah way too..  Jewish weakness being a biblical chillul hashem.

[Amir]

a wise man once said "never let them know that they got to you kid"
that is the best way.

[q_q_]

a wise man once said "never let them know that they got to you kid"
that is the best way.

well mr hussein.

a wiser man once said, give it to them.

rabbi kahane was asked if he believed in an eye for an eye. He responded, "I believe in 2 eyes for an eye!". 

In the arab world, as you know, one is either dominant or dominated!

[Amir]

i agree with your point.
but when you are at work you must be diplomatic.
you can't just poke their eyes out you know (although that would be fun)

[q_q_]

i agree with your point.
but when you are at work you must be diplomatic.
you can't just poke their eyes out you know (although that would be fun)

if somebody pokes one of your eyes out then you can.

note- the verse in tenach that talks about "an eye for an eye" is talking about compensation(as is clear within the next verses). But the idea of revenge is very clear in tenach elsewhere.  Rabbi kahane merely gave the perfect response to a woman that asked the question, in a talkradio format. The woman said "he certainly answered my question"!!!!!

[4International]

(when something bad is being done towards you) you don't have to be more respectable or more moral than everybody else (in your reaction towards them)..  Don't get trodden on.

That is truly the kahanist way

applicable everywhere.  In a classroom, in the arab-israel conflict, on the streets of brooklyn new york, and in the workplace.

If you are criticised for your behaviour, then you can say they should just as much apply that criticism to that other person too(the person that treated you badly).  If you pay a penalty then you pay a penalty, but you have your respect!

Over the ages, after 2000 years of exile, jews have been the perfect victims. Now we people expect us to be behave nice, (in the middle east, nice is percieved as weak, and that's bad).

jared of amren apparently said that he wants jews in his  organisation because jews are seen as the the moral conscience of the world.
Well, as kahane often said "I want jews to be normal again!"

this is the essence of kahanism. That and that this is the torah way too..  Jewish weakness being a biblical chillul hashem.

I'm 100% with brother q_q_ on this one. A very good friend of mine related a story which is all too familiar: being too nice to the rude, overbearing, obnoxious and aggressive people at work. He was always being overly and unduly nice to everyone at work, even when he was treated extremely unfairly, rudely and disrespectfully. He thought that if he just 'smiled' and accepted the unjust behavior from his scumbag co-workers - by being 'nice' to them when they were disrespectful and mean towards him - that the perpetrators would eventually 'see the error of their ways' and stop.

Well, guess what? It didn't work. They became even ruder, more obnoxious, overbearing and aggressive with time. Aggressors cannot be appeased or placated with 'smiles', 'niceness' and 'goodness'. The only thing these obnoxious animals understand is brute FORCE and RETALIATION.

People who are continually rude, obnoxious, overbearing and aggressive at work, school or in any other environment need to be told right to their face that their behavior is unacceptable and won't be put up with. You need to let them know that you will 'give as good as you get' and then follow through by fighting fire with fire. In most cases because they are cowards like all bullies are, they will go running to the boss - complaining how you 'threatened' them or some other cowardly dishonest canard. A confrontation with a bully in school or an aggressive, rude, overbearing co-worker at a job is of course not a pleasant thing to face but is absolutely necessary. Keeping quiet or complaining to the boss about them won't necessarily work.You may find that as time goes on the likelihood is that their aggressive, rude, obnoxious behavior towards you will only get progrssively worse - no matter how 'nice' you are to them.

The really unpleasant scenario is of course one where the boss sides with the aggressive co-worker and blames you for daring to refuse to be trodden upon - threatening you with disciplinary action instead of doing the right thing and disciplining the aggressor. If the ensuing confrontation with the aggressive co-worker results in you losing your so called work 'acquaintances', 'privileges', 'benefits' and so forth, or even perhaps losing your job, then you should be well prepared ahead of time for this outcome. If you get fired by your boss for standing up for yourself and know in your heart that all you were doing was fighting against unfair treatment, you should actually be grateful for the job promotion you just received.

[q_q_]

what I wrote is largely what rabbi kahane has said..

something I intended to say but it looks like I missed it out.   When discussing the situation on radio, he said that in the arab world , if you're nice, you are perceived as weak, and that's bad.

another thing he would say was "I don't want love, I want respect".
(obviously he didn't mean love from his enemy since that is never going to happen. He meant love from bystanders. What he meant was, as he would say)
"I would rather an Israel that is hated by the whole world, than an Auchwitz that is loved by it."

And as he told chaim (context was demonstrating).  Bury respectability before respectability buries you.
And..
if you don't sink to their level, then you don't, you sink 6ft below it.

He would apply this to being disrespected. That was an ultimate "no no". That was Torah, and his personal preference being from brooklyn and being Kahane!

[SavetheWest]

Thanks q_q_

From what you said, you can try to be nice when there is a misunderstanding but when they obviously don't care and do everything they can to undermine you and make you look bad in front of your boss, then do the same to them.  Respectability is great until people see it as weakness.They can get all upset when you fight back but many companies do have an HR department or hotline where you can call and let your adversaries know you mean business with them when they get investigated by the company.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

I try and get along too. But there are just some customers that are too demanding.

[q_q_]

Thanks q_q_

From what you said, you can try to be nice when there is a misunderstanding but when they obviously don't care and do everything they can to undermine you and make you look bad in front of your boss, then do the same to them.  Respectability is great until people see it as weakness.They can get all upset when you fight back but many companies do have an HR department or hotline where you can call and let your adversaries know you mean business with them when they get investigated by the company.

you make a very good point. 

Very likely that the HR dept would deal with the problem very effectively.

Rabbi Kahane defended the concept of counter-terrorism (he wouldn't say he supports it, because of legal ramifications, it -wouldn't be smart-). Here's the key though, his defence was "what are we supposed to do?". The ruling power have an army and could deal with the arabs far more effectively (if they wanted to), but they aren't dealing with it. They are aware of the problem , and aren't dealing with it.

HR would whisper a stern warning to the other person, and it can all get fixed very neatly behind the scenes!

Another thing you could do is stare at her eyeball to eyeball and tell her - something.. along the lines of criticising her behaviour. But you have really, and since she is willing to go up and complain about you. There is absolutely no problem going up and complaining about her. And you can tell HR that you -have- spoken to her about it and it has had no effect. (they'll like the fact that you tried to deal with it sensibly yourself)..

It's worth noting that by even responding to her, you obeyed rule number one   not to get trodden on..  She didn't respond to that so you go further, HR.  You have to play the game, responding in a smart way..

Meir Kahane knew how to work systems, he studied law for a
reason. He was grateful that arabs are stupid enough to produce
propaganda that jews are evil geniuses, beause it'd frighten the arabs into not attacking

I saw a video of Robert Aumann (the Orthodox jewish nobel prize winner in game theory)..  game theory seems to be about treating a situation like a game - not a joke game, but a game, what are the right moves to make.. He talked about how more weapons can prevent war , since they deter it.. He talked about the bible verse about changing swords into ploughshares, and explained how it doesn't mean do it now..  I recall Kahane saying "I'm all for turning swords into ploughshares , but if my enemy has a sword, I don't want a ploughshare". 
Kahane was all about playing the game and responding in a smart way.

Without crazy rules like thinking  you have to be "nice".. more moral than everybody else e.t.c.   If you were to swear at that woman , I don't think Kahane would have said you were a nasty person for doing that. But he would have said it - wasn't smart-, because you have a more effective option.

[SavetheWest]

I try and get along too. But there are just some customers that are too demanding.

It's not good to deal with the public for too long.  It starts getting you thinking that all people are complainers and petty. 

[SavetheWest]

Thanks q_q_

From what you said, you can try to be nice when there is a misunderstanding but when they obviously don't care and do everything they can to undermine you and make you look bad in front of your boss, then do the same to them.  Respectability is great until people see it as weakness.They can get all upset when you fight back but many companies do have an HR department or hotline where you can call and let your adversaries know you mean business with them when they get investigated by the company.

you make a very good point. 

Very likely that the HR dept would deal with the problem very effectively.

Rabbi Kahane defended the concept of counter-terrorism (he wouldn't say he supports it, because of legal ramifications, it -wouldn't be smart-). Here's the key though, his defence was "what are we supposed to do?". The ruling power have an army and could deal with the arabs far more effectively (if they wanted to), but they aren't dealing with it. They are aware of the problem , and aren't dealing with it.

HR would whisper a stern warning to the other person, and it can all get fixed very neatly behind the scenes!

Another thing you could do is stare at her eyeball to eyeball and tell her - something.. along the lines of criticising her behaviour. But you have really, and since she is willing to go up and complain about you. There is absolutely no problem going up and complaining about her. And you can tell HR that you -have- spoken to her about it and it has had no effect. (they'll like the fact that you tried to deal with it sensibly yourself)..

It's worth noting that by even responding to her, you obeyed rule number one   not to get trodden on..  She didn't respond to that so you go further, HR.  You have to play the game, responding in a smart way..

Meir Kahane knew how to work systems, he studied law for a
reason. He was grateful that arabs are stupid enough to produce
propaganda that jews are evil geniuses, beause it'd frighten the arabs into not attacking

I saw a video of Robert Aumann (the Orthodox jewish nobel prize winner in game theory)..  game theory seems to be about treating a situation like a game - not a joke game, but a game, what are the right moves to make.. He talked about how more weapons can prevent war , since they deter it.. He talked about the bible verse about changing swords into ploughshares, and explained how it doesn't mean do it now..  I recall Kahane saying "I'm all for turning swords into ploughshares , but if my enemy has a sword, I don't want a ploughshare". 
Kahane was all about playing the game and responding in a smart way.

Without crazy rules like thinking  you have to be "nice".. more moral than everybody else e.t.c.   If you were to swear at that woman , I don't think Kahane would have said you were a nasty person for doing that. But he would have said it - wasn't smart-, because you have a more effective option.




 












you respond in an effective way..

Kahane was smart and could think on his feet.   

Kahane responded to adversaries and enemies in such a brilliant way.  I recently saw that Mike Wallace 60 minutes interview where he gives Rabbi Kahane really tough questions and Kahane takes them, explores the religious context of the question and throws it back to the interviewer in a way he and the audience have never considered or thought of.  Kahane was so good at dealing with people in the way they approached him. 

I think preparation is important, especially against a more powerful  enemy.  I never thought I needed to save my communication I sent to that department but now I have. 

Its probably a good idea to never just ignore someone who comes at you.  My experince is that it never works and your situation gets worse.
You're right it wouldn't be wrong to blow up at her but it wouldn't be smart.