Rastafarian can sue over Jiffy Lube hair policy as religious discrimination???

[briann]

What the HECK is this???


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8FiA2EtSvpyOzngdqWPgTLthKGgD94QSKHG0

BOSTON (AP) — A Rastafarian man who refused to shave off his beard or cut his hair to comply with a Jiffy Lube employee grooming policy can take his religious discrimination case to trial, Massachusetts' highest court ruled Tuesday.

The Supreme Judicial Court reversed a decision by a Superior Court judge who had dismissed Bobby T. Brown's lawsuit against a Jiffy Lube franchisee before a trial.

Brown worked as a technician at a Hadley Jiffy Lube business owned by F.L. Roberts & Co. Inc.

In 2002, after a new grooming policy was put in place requiring employees who worked with customers to be clean-shaven, Brown told management that his religion does not permit him to shave or cut his hair. Managers then said Brown could work only in lower bays where he did not have contact with customers.

Brown filed a discrimination lawsuit in state court in 2006. A Superior Court judge agreed with the company that it had the right to control its public image and found that it would be an undue hardship on the company to grant Brown an exemption from the grooming policy.

But the Supreme Judicial Court disagreed, saying the company had not proven that no other accommodation was possible for Brown without imposing an undue hardship on the company.

"Here ... because the defendant did not discuss alternatives with the plaintiff, the defendant cannot show conclusively, on this record, that a total exemption from the grooming policy was the only possible accommodation," Justice Roderick Ireland wrote for the court.

Brown's attorney, Joel Feldman, praised the ruling. He said Brown no longer works for the company, but will take the case to trial because he believes the grooming policy discriminated against him based on his religion and that he is entitled to damages.

But a lawyer for F.L. Roberts said that after the grooming policy was implemented, the company continued to employ Brown and gave him merit raises.

"The policy was not aimed at an individual's religion. What the policy said was if you want to continue to have customer contact, then you must be clean-shaven and have neatly trimmed hair," she said. "Otherwise we are still going to maintain your employment ... but you can't have customer contact."

The Rastafarian faith urges followers to let their hair grow unbridled. Many grow their hair into long, matted strands called dreadlocks to express a oneness with nature.

[Raulmarrio2000]

Well, on one side, as I support Libertarianism, I should say that private companies are the owners of their property and can choose or reject any employee or have any requirements. But it's not a morally correct to discriminate a person for his look. They would also discriminate a Haredi with beard.

[briann]

Well, on one side, as I support Libertarianism, I should say that private companies are the owners of their property and can choose or reject any employee or have any requirements. But it's not a morally correct to discriminate a person for his look. They would also discriminate a Haredi with beard.

n

The point here is that Rastafarians are NOT!!!! a religion.

Just like if someone shaved a swaztika in their head or if someone came to work dressed as a klingon.   Employers should not have to tolerate lunatics like this!!!!!

[Raulmarrio2000]

Well, on one side, as I support Libertarianism, I should say that private companies are the owners of their property and can choose or reject any employee or have any requirements. But it's not a morally correct to discriminate a person for his look. They would also discriminate a Haredi with beard.

n

The point here is that Rastafarians are NOT!!!! a religion.

Just like if someone shaved a swaztika in their head or if someone came to work dressed as a klingon.   Employers should not have to tolerate lunatics like this!!!!!

No matter if it is a religion or anything else. Discriminating for one's look or life style(except when it's terror or violence) is immoral. But I hold that State has no authority to keep the morality of private activities and so if they do immoral discrimination it's not up to the judges to prevent it.

[Rubystars]

Rastafarianism is a religion. It may be more like a cult than a religion but they do have religious beliefs. They're not supposed to eat salt, for example.

Anyway I think dreadlocks are absolutely disgusting but I think if this guy doesn't win this case it could be bad for people with other religious hairstyles.

[Vito]

No matter if it is a religion or anything else. Discriminating for one's look or life style(except when it's terror or violence) is immoral. But I hold that State has no authority to keep the morality of private activities and so if they do immoral discrimination it's not up to the judges to prevent it.

If a company has certain requirements, and you want to work for that company, you must follow those requirements. He should have known before he worked there, or better yet, Jiffy Lube shouldn't have hired him to begin with (unless he started growing it after).

[Raulmarrio2000]

No matter if it is a religion or anything else. Discriminating for one's look or life style(except when it's terror or violence) is immoral. But I hold that State has no authority to keep the morality of private activities and so if they do immoral discrimination it's not up to the judges to prevent it.

If a company has certain requirements, and you want to work for that company, you must follow those requirements. He should have known before he worked there, or better yet, Jiffy Lube shouldn't have hired him to begin with (unless he started growing it after).

I hold that this sort of requirements in PRIVATE companies should not be prosecuted by law, since it's their property. They should not be legally bound to accept him, but they have a moral duty to not to discriminate. Judging people for their look is not only immoral itself, but also predisposes one's mind to other sins.

[briann]

Well, on one side, as I support Libertarianism, I should say that private companies are the owners of their property and can choose or reject any employee or have any requirements. But it's not a morally correct to discriminate a person for his look. They would also discriminate a Haredi with beard.

n

The point here is that Rastafarians are NOT!!!! a religion.

Just like if someone shaved a swaztika in their head or if someone came to work dressed as a klingon.   Employers should not have to tolerate lunatics like this!!!!!

No matter if it is a religion or anything else. Discriminating for one's look or life style(except when it's terror or violence) is immoral. But I hold that State has no authority to keep the morality of private activities and so if they do immoral discrimination it's not up to the judges to prevent it.

WHAT??? Immoral??  I do it all the time.  I have a business on the side... selling software.  And if a potential salesperson comes to me and does NOT look well-kept and clean, then I will not hire them.  If a Rastafarian came to me... Id say... lose the locks... or look for a job elsewhere... where your appearance doesn't matter... like telemarketing.

[briann]

Rastafarianism is a religion. It may be more like a cult than a religion but they do have religious beliefs. They're not supposed to eat salt, for example.

WHATS GOING ON HERE??? I'm shocked by this sentiment!!  Rastafarianism is a religion?  What's next??? Harry Poterism??  Satanism??  StarWarism??  ISlam??

By saying that these cults are religions... you are trivializing true religions.

The same with homosexual or polygamous marriage.  By legitimizing these... you are de-legitimatizing true marriage.

[Zelhar]

It is hard to find the line in this case between the company's right to conduct business and the employee right to self determine his appearance. I think it should be illegal to turn down or fire someone because he's tall, or short or bold etc. If this man must cut his here, can women be forced to cut their hair too, or may be women can be required to wear short skirts and high heels ? I think that the reasonable thing would be that this man cover his hair (like Sikhs do for example) while on work. 

[Rubystars]

Rastafarianism is a religion. It may be more like a cult than a religion but they do have religious beliefs. They're not supposed to eat salt, for example.

WHATS GOING ON HERE??? I'm shocked by this sentiment!!  Rastafarianism is a religion?  What's next??? Harry Poterism??  Satanism??  StarWarism??  ISlam??

By saying that these cults are religions... you are trivializing true religions.

The same with homosexual or polygamous marriage.  By legitimizing these... you are de-legitimatizing true marriage.

I think cults are ridiculous, and no it's not really a religion since it's mostly about hate YT and smoking weed. However I worry about the precedent it could set in court if he loses this case.

[briann]

women be forced to cut their hair too, or may be women can be required to wear short skirts and high heels ? I think that the reasonable thing would be that this man cover his hair (like Sikhs do for example) while on work. 

If someone is trying to get a job where appearance is an issue... then YES!!!!    If I am selling High Heals to transvestites... then YES... If you find this demeaning... then DONT TAKE THE JOB!!!!!   If you find the outfit that Hooters girls wear as demeaning... DONT TAKE THE JOB!!!! etc etc.

If I am hiring salespeople... I can require all SORTS of appearance requests.. including uniforms, hair styles, etc etc.

People have now found a loophole around this... They can say that its part of their made-up religion.  Its like a girl wanting to wear a cloak at Hooters... and justifying it by saying she is a witch.  Or what if a MUSLIM woman wants to work at hooters???  and we turn her down because she will only be a waitress if she wears her Burqa and then she sues us!!!  This is insane logic! 

[Americanhero1]

Let him get his locks stuck in the equipment and get scalped

[Raulmarrio2000]

Rastafarianism is a religion. It may be more like a cult than a religion but they do have religious beliefs. They're not supposed to eat salt, for example.

WHATS GOING ON HERE??? I'm shocked by this sentiment!!  Rastafarianism is a religion?  What's next??? Harry Poterism??  Satanism??  StarWarism??  ISlam??

By saying that these cults are religions... you are trivializing true religions.

The same with homosexual or polygamous marriage.  By legitimizing these... you are de-legitimatizing true marriage.

Are you Jewish, Briann? How can you liken homosexual marriage to Polygamy? Polygamy is allowed by the Torah and Abraham had two wives, Israel had four....
Now, nearly all Jews abstain from Polygamy due to a temporary Rabbinical decree. But Polygamy is holy marriage.

[Zelhar]

If someone is trying to get a job where appearance is an issue... then YES!!!!

I agree with you about this principle, but there should still be common sense. A sales person doesn't have to be tall or black or blond. He should look decent and representative. I actually think that an employer should have an unrestricted power to decide which one gets to work for it, if it Is a private company. For a public company there should be some restrictions.

[muman613]

My peyos are protected from discrimination. If they want to fire me because I don't want to cut my peyos then I will be talking to a lawyer very quickly. My boss is aware that my peyos are a religious expression which is protected.



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/81570/jewish/The-Prohibition-Against-Shaving-the-Edges-of-Ones-Head.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payot

Payot (also peyot, payos, peyes, Hebrew: פאות‎) is a Hebrew word, which literally translates into English as corners, sides or edges; in the context of Judaism, it is particularly used in relation to the head and face, denoting sidelocks, and sometimes also sideburns. Haredi, Yemenite, and Hasidic Jews often sport distinctive long curled payot, while those of Modern Orthodox Judaism wear more varyingly sized sideburns; the Yemenite Jews refer to their sidelocks as simanim, literally meaning signs, because the sidelocks were historically the main feature which differentiated them from Yemenite Muslims. The practice of wearing payot is one of the consequences of Jewish law regarding shaving.

[briann]

Rastafarianism is a religion. It may be more like a cult than a religion but they do have religious beliefs. They're not supposed to eat salt, for example.

WHATS GOING ON HERE??? I'm shocked by this sentiment!!  Rastafarianism is a religion?  What's next??? Harry Poterism??  Satanism??  StarWarism??  ISlam??

By saying that these cults are religions... you are trivializing true religions.

The same with homosexual or polygamous marriage.  By legitimizing these... you are de-legitimatizing true marriage.

Are you Jewish, Briann? How can you liken homosexual marriage to Polygamy? Polygamy is allowed by the Torah and Abraham had two wives, Israel had four....
Now, nearly all Jews abstain from Polygamy due to a temporary Rabbinical decree. But Polygamy is holy marriage.

Yes I am... (well more secular than many here.)  But I don't support polygamous unions as being recognized equally to my marriage.  But this really belongs in another thread

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

I guess they are trying to compare the Jewish Beard or Payot??? What a bunch of nutcases

[nessuno]

If I saw 'that' walking torward me on the street...I would cross it. 
Why would I want that working on my car?
Maybe it is as simple as that for Jiffy Lube.
It's as simple as that for me.

If you think those dreadlocks have religious significance to 'it'/him...I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. 

[cjd]

Most rastamen that have locks wear a big leather cap that they can tuck most of the locks up in and keep them out of sight. Whatever is in that picture is a filthy animal since there is almost no way that anyone can keep something like that clean without spending their entire existence doing it. This guy is a problem the company should have taken a different route in getting him out the door. If this guy is working in the automotive field hair like that is very dangerous and that alone would be enough to have him do something with it or discharge him for safety reasons.

[briann]

If someone is trying to get a job where appearance is an issue... then YES!!!!

I agree with you about this principle, but there should still be common sense. A sales person doesn't have to be tall or black or blond. He should look decent and representative. I actually think that an employer should have an unrestricted power to decide which one gets to work for it, if it Is a private company. For a public company there should be some restrictions.

I never mentioned anything about race or height..... 

There are 1000's of cultures out there.... that have all sorts of absurd customs for dressing that I would never hire if they refused to remove them or cover them up in a sales position.

but let me flip things around to see things from the other perspective.

Lets say you opened a fancy TEA HOUSE selling fancy tea and crumpets to old ladies.

Would you hire a woman with a lip disk who wont remove her lip disk?


Or a Muslims who wont remove her Burqa?


Or a Rastafarian who refuses to cover his head?


Or a Satanist?



Or a New Guinea Lady who refuses to wear a top? etc etc.

Would you hire any them??

Now what if they came back and sued you because you discriminated against their culture/heritage/so-called religion?  Do you think that's fair?

[nessuno]

No, I wouldn't hire any of them.
Good post briann.

[briann]

No, I wouldn't hire any of them.
Good post briann.

Thanks  .  Lets hope Obama doesnt have the chance to appoint enough justices to force us to. 

[Rubystars]

Briann you do make some great points with those pictures.

[briann]

Briann you do make some great points with those pictures.

Thanks... I hope you didn't get to sickened by those pictures.