A word to posters here.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I frequently notice this  being put up. Which if true says that you are angry. I would like to say to everyone here that this is not a good thing to be. I understand that many situations might be the cause of anger and frustration, but would also like to tell you that we shouldn't let them anger us (or worse bring people to rage). We just have to do what we can and not let the negativity bring even more nagativity upon us. Anger has a lot of negative aspects both physical and spiritual.
 Stay happy, and do what you can, but dont get angry and upset.

[DownwithIslam]

I agree with you here.

[Americanhero1]

ANGRY

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I think anger has its time and place.  I get angry over injustice.  My anger causes me to act, to write, and to motivate others.  Having said that, I try not to be more angry than I have to be.

[nessuno]

ANGRY

Can't help it!  I feel this way    a lot of the time.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

ANGRY

Can't help it!  I feel this way    a lot of the time.

 You can if you want. It just takes an attitude change and working on yourself. (maybe i'll find a little on this subject so other's here can read.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

(read this a long time ago- http://www.jewishsexuality.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=57 )
  Also with things dealing with Emuna talks about rectifying anger and trusting G-d as opposed to having everything in your hands (but this should not be confused with being passive and not doing anything, on the contrary see the challenge and rectify it).

[Rubystars]

Tzvi a lot of people are motivated by anger and I think that's one reason we fight. We're angry about what's happening in this world to hurt good people.

Besides Shlomo found and put these great smileys on the forum so I like to use them. 

I do think that we shouldn't be angry all the time, because that's not healthy. However there are times when righteous anger is necessary.

[nessuno]

I feel all kind of emotions, Tzvi Ben Roshel.  From  to   .
I think that is healthy.
You're right though.  A little less of  couldn't hurt.  I'll work on it.

[muman613]

Shalom Everyone,

I agree with Tzvi on this one. Our great sages have written numerous sefers which teach that anger is a form of idolatry. One who is angry all the time demonstrates his lack of faith in Hashem. Anger is a character trait which either leads to changing the circumstances for the good, or it leads to baseless hatred which is the reason our Holy Temple was destroyed.

It is wise to advise people to avoid anger.

Let us hope that our anger is righteous and leads us to rectify the things which are wrong in this world.

PS: I can think of at least two great Rabbis who advised against anger... First and most famously is the Chofetz Chaim who brought down the laws of Lashon Hara and Loving Kindness. Rabbi Nachman is famous for advising against anger recommending joy as the path to redemption.

[Abben]

I will admit at times I may have anger issues, but out of all my posts this evening was the 1st time I only put up an angry face. Thankfully many things make me happy.

[muman613]

I will admit at times I may have anger issues, but out of all my posts this evening was the 1st time I only put up an angry face. Thankfully many things make me happy.

Abben

It is true that I too have had problems with anger in the past. Luckily I have gone through many changes in my life and I am working on staying on this path.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Shalom Everyone,

I agree with Tzvi on this one. Our great sages have written numerous sefers which teach that anger is a form of idolatry. One who is angry all the time demonstrates his lack of faith in Hashem. Anger is a character trait which either leads to changing the circumstances for the good, or it leads to baseless hatred which is the reason our Holy Temple was destroyed.

It is wise to advise people to avoid anger.

Let us hope that our anger is righteous and leads us to rectify the things which are wrong in this world.

PS: I can think of at least two great Rabbis who advised against anger... First and most famously is the Chofetz Chaim who brought down the laws of Lashon Hara and Loving Kindness. Rabbi Nachman is famous for advising against anger recommending joy as the path to redemption.

Isn't vanity more akin to idolatry than anger?

[muman613]

Shalom Everyone,

I agree with Tzvi on this one. Our great sages have written numerous sefers which teach that anger is a form of idolatry. One who is angry all the time demonstrates his lack of faith in Hashem. Anger is a character trait which either leads to changing the circumstances for the good, or it leads to baseless hatred which is the reason our Holy Temple was destroyed.

It is wise to advise people to avoid anger.

Let us hope that our anger is righteous and leads us to rectify the things which are wrong in this world.

PS: I can think of at least two great Rabbis who advised against anger... First and most famously is the Chofetz Chaim who brought down the laws of Lashon Hara and Loving Kindness. Rabbi Nachman is famous for advising against anger recommending joy as the path to redemption.

Isn't vanity more akin to idolatry than anger?

I think you are referring to arrogance, which is also likened to idolatry. Hashem himself says the world is not big enough for him and an arrogant person.

Here is a shuir which teaches that "Anger is an expression of Idolatry"

http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/726309/Rabbi_Hanan_Balk/Anger_as_an_Expression_of_Idolatry

From Chabad:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/528005/jewish/Moses-Anger-Management-Technique.htm

Anger and Faith

The truth is that there is no magic potion. It was not a pill that Moses took, but the perspective he brought to his interactions with others.

Our sages equated anger with the cardinal sin of idolatry.4 Moses must have reflected that if the sin of anger is so grievous as to be equated with idolatry, and if we are required to sacrifice our lives to avoid idol worship, we are surely required to rein in our ego and control our tempers to avoid anger.

It remains to us to explain the connection is between anger and idolatry. What is the connection?

http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/ch2law3c.html

"There are certain character traits which a person is forbidden to accustom himself in, even in moderation. Rather, he must distance himself to the opposite extreme. One such trait is haughtiness...

"So too is anger an exceedingly bad quality; one from which it is proper that one distance himself to an extreme. A person should train himself not to anger even on a matter regarding which anger is appropriate. And if a person wants to instill awe upon his children -- or if he is an administrator / provider ('parnais') and wants to anger at the community members in order that they mend their ways, he should only feign anger in their presence in order to castigate them, but his mind should be composed within. He should act as one impersonating an [angry] man while not being angry himself.

"The early Sages said, 'Whoever angers is as if he has performed idolatry.' They said further that one who angers, if he is a scholar his wisdom will depart from him, and if he is a prophet his prophetic spirit will depart from him. [The Sages further stated,] 'People who have tempers -- their lives are not lives.'

"Therefore, [the Sages] instructed us that one should distance himself from anger so much so that one accustoms himself not to feel even things which [would ordinarily] incite one to anger. And this is the ideal path.

"It is [further] the way of the righteous that they are insulted / abused ('aluvim') but do not insult back; they hear themselves being disgraced and do not respond. They act out of love and rejoice in suffering. Regarding them does the verse state, 'And those that love Him are as the emergence of the sun in its power' (Judges 5:31)."

[Lisa]

So Muman, anger is a human emotion.  Are you saying we should never get angry?  Isn't there a time and place for everything?  Also, if there's no anger, or hatred of evil and injustice, what motivates good people to take a stand and to do what's right? 

I can understand not being consumed by your anger. 

[zachor_ve_kavod]

This is Seneca's perspective, which I happen to agree with:  Anger is good if it is instructive.  A child may learn from a father's anger.  If anger is a motivating force behind change for the better then it is useful.  If anger is not applied or self-destructive, it is detrimental.

That's an over-simplification, I know, but the meaning is clear.  I can see why anger can be interpreted as idolatry.  It is often a luxury that people should not afford themselves.  On the other hand, anger with a purpose is a good thing.

[muman613]

So Muman, anger is a human emotion.  Are you saying we should never get angry?  Isn't there a time and place for everything?  Also, if there's no anger, or hatred of evil and injustice, what motivates good people to take a stand and to do what's right? 

I can understand not being consumed by your anger. 

Lisa,

I am not covering the entire topic. I am currently listening to the shuir which I linked to above.

All emotions are provided to the soul as ways to accomplish the mission which we are given life for. There is a time and a place for every emotion. A wise person is one who is in control of his emotions. Jewish wisdom teaches that anger does have a time and place, for instance when a child runs into the street while cars are passing. It is essential for a parent to get angry at the child in order to rebuke him/her. There are other places where anger is appropriate, but this anger must not consume, it must be to correct the behaviour of others.

If you are interested you should follow some of the links which I provided. That Chabad link explains how Moses, our Teacher, was punished because of his tiny expression of anger expressed by hitting the rock instead of talking to it. This is a a complex issue and I will certainly not be able to explain everything about it.

I just wished to second the original post which I believe is an important aspect of our Torah.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

So Muman, anger is a human emotion.  Are you saying we should never get angry?  Isn't there a time and place for everything?  Also, if there's no anger, or hatred of evil and injustice, what motivates good people to take a stand and to do what's right? 

I can understand not being consumed by your anger. 

 We need to start getting control over our emotions and actions (it all takes time but we all need to work on ourselves and take control whether it's anger, lust, or whatever else). The Torah says that the rightious are control over their heart and not the heart being in control over them. For example Hanna prayed AL (Over) her heart, while the wicked are totally controlled by their hearts desires and they flow with it.
  We can and should have hatred of evil though, but we should be in control. And about what should motivate people- doing what G-d says to do and also being Zealous (not angry) for Hashe-m.


  I just remembered what the Talmud says about 3 people who have no life- One who gets angry (at every thing), one who is a clean freak, and one who's heart is too sensitive (for example someone they dont know died and then 2 years later that person is still hurting over it).

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

By the way when making this thread, I wasn't demanding that everyone should be on this level where they never get angry, I'm just pointing out that it's not good for oneself and noticing the  face often I thought that by pointing it out maybe some will hear and understand. Let everyone make their own choices.

[q_q_]

By the way when making this thread, I wasn't demanding that everyone should be on this level where they never get angry, <snip>

"this level" no doubt a level you deem to be very high.

from what you said, it looks like you really think that jews should -ideally- be on a "level" of never getting angry. That would include jews in war then.

that seems a bit silly.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

By the way when making this thread, I wasn't demanding that everyone should be on this level where they never get angry, <snip>

"this level" no doubt a level you deem to be very high.

from what you said, it looks like you really think that jews should -ideally- be on a "level" of never getting angry. That would include jews in war then.

that seems a bit silly.

 I said ideally. And anyway it is not silly at all. Even in the situation where one kills their enemies during war, it is also for the good. The kavanah is that better that I kill my enemy before it kills me and my family. Also with that attitude the  soldier is much more efficient and focused. Not acting stupid and fighting efficiently and correctly. Doing what needs to be done as opposed to what one feels with their emotions.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I frequently notice this  being put up. Which if true says that you are angry. I would like to say to everyone here that this is not a good thing to be. I understand that many situations might be the cause of anger and frustration, but would also like to tell you that we shouldn't let them anger us (or worse bring people to rage). We just have to do what we can and not let the negativity bring even more nagativity upon us. Anger has a lot of negative aspects both physical and spiritual.
 Stay happy, and do what you can, but dont get angry and upset.

You have a good point, but it's darned hard to with the state of the world as it is. However, it's not healthy to just fester in rage any more than lust or envy.

[q_q_]

By the way when making this thread, I wasn't demanding that everyone should be on this level where they never get angry, <snip>

"this level" no doubt a level you deem to be very high.

from what you said, it looks like you really think that jews should -ideally- be on a "level" of never getting angry. That would include jews in war then.

that seems a bit silly.

 I said ideally. And anyway it is not silly at all. Even in the situation where one kills their enemies during war, it is also for the good. The kavanah is that better that I kill my enemy before it kills me and my family. Also with that attitude the  soldier is much more efficient and focused. Not acting stupid and fighting efficiently and correctly. Doing what needs to be done as opposed to what one feels with their emotions.

I said that you said ideally.

Unfortunately, human beings are not robots or vulcans. If you pretend to be one, you can become apathetic and do nothing, or harm yourself with a bad diet!

Emotions can drive us to do things, good things.

Anger can cause chemical reactions that are very beneficial for fighting.

[muman613]

By the way when making this thread, I wasn't demanding that everyone should be on this level where they never get angry, <snip>

"this level" no doubt a level you deem to be very high.

from what you said, it looks like you really think that jews should -ideally- be on a "level" of never getting angry. That would include jews in war then.

that seems a bit silly.

 I said ideally. And anyway it is not silly at all. Even in the situation where one kills their enemies during war, it is also for the good. The kavanah is that better that I kill my enemy before it kills me and my family. Also with that attitude the  soldier is much more efficient and focused. Not acting stupid and fighting efficiently and correctly. Doing what needs to be done as opposed to what one feels with their emotions.

I said that you said ideally.

Unfortunately, human beings are not robots or vulcans. If you pretend to be one, you can become apathetic and do nothing, or harm yourself with a bad diet!

Emotions can drive us to do things, good things.

Anger can cause chemical reactions that are very beneficial for fighting.

So what do you say to the Chazal who equate Anger with Idolatry? I dont think there is anything beneficial from anger because it clouds the reasoning ability. Have you ever gotten angry? It is very bad for the soul and for all those around. You claim it is good for fighting but an angry fighter is not one who is thinking logically. I dont think anger is the appropriate term for what you are thinking. I think that an increase in adrenaline can be beneficial to a fighter because a fighter needs to be aware of what is going on around him.

I think that the wisdom of Chazal over-rides your claims...

PS: Your argument is one of 'the yetzer hara is really good' because sometimes it leads to good things {like having a family, etc.}. But we know that a yetzer hara which is not controlled is most certainly not for the good.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Mum- he didn't say that about the Yetzer Hara, BUT it is also true that one should serve G-d with both inclinations. BUT with that said, one should still strive to be in control of the inclinations (even Hessed could be problematic when used the wrong way).