Author Topic: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.  (Read 6871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2008, 06:05:56 PM »
For the sake of the movt, I wont continue debating you two. Anyone who reads the ynet article will clearly see the quote that you two can't comprehend. End your love affair with the fraud Feiglin. We are screwed if he is the one the right wing looks to.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2008, 06:09:56 PM »
For the sake of the movt, I wont continue debating you two. Anyone who reads the ynet article will clearly see the quote that you two can't comprehend. End your love affair with the fraud Feiglin. We are screwed if he is the one the right wing looks to.

DWI,

You are not reading the article correctly. Although it says that he said that he doesnt think that Arabs should be forcibly removed he does support only allowing loyal arabs to remain. This is in line with Kahanist ideas, as far as I understand. Rabbi Kahane was for relocating the non-loyal arabs only. He allowed for arabs to live in Israel as long as they swore aliegence to the state of Israel. If they violated this they would be evicted from the state.

I think you also are not giving credit to the fact that this is a democratic election. In a democracy a politician must shift positions in order to get elected. I am not surprised by this... But my reading of the article is completely opposite of yours. I see a man who wants to create a strong Jewish identity in Israel, which is a goal we all share.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2008, 06:30:51 PM »
For the sake of the movt, I wont continue debating you two. Anyone who reads the ynet article will clearly see the quote that you two can't comprehend. End your love affair with the fraud Feiglin. We are screwed if he is the one the right wing looks to.

DWI,

You are not reading the article correctly. Although it says that he said that he doesnt think that Arabs should be forcibly removed he does support only allowing loyal arabs to remain. This is in line with Kahanist ideas, as far as I understand. Rabbi Kahane was for relocating the non-loyal arabs only. He allowed for arabs to live in Israel as long as they swore aliegence to the state of Israel. If they violated this they would be evicted from the state.

I think you also are not giving credit to the fact that this is a democratic election. In a democracy a politician must shift positions in order to get elected. I am not surprised by this... But my reading of the article is completely opposite of yours. I see a man who wants to create a strong Jewish identity in Israel, which is a goal we all share.



you keep repeating this, I must correct you.

you are right in a sense, but rabbi kahane would have never used the terminology you are using, about loyal and non-loyal arabs.

Infact he himself said that every arab is loyal (meaning, TO HIS OWN)

Rabbi Kahane was willing to offer them the chance to stay and accept the state, but he knows they won't. He expects them to leave. So often he just said he wants them out.

Rabbi Kahane would never have responded as Feiglin would, starting a paragraph with "Of course not"  when asked if he wants them out.  Regardless of the fact that the plain logic of Feiglin is in line with kahanism(based on torah), and has been correctly read by KahaneBT and yourself, and ignored by DWI .   

It's just the way Feiglin said it.. It's likely he was just being smart. 

Rabbi Kahane was always blunt and wanted the tough image, that was his image, and a great one. He maintained his credibility that way too. Nobody was more effective at warning people of te dangers than he was so it was smart. I have no doubt that rabbi kahane inspired Feiglin.  Feiglin's methods are a bit different. People know already, he doesn't need to tell people what the problem is.

Those words of Feiglin's are fine.  The reason why he might have answered it like that is obvious.  And the fact that he still talked about encouraging arabs that are not loyal to israel, to leave, that is very good. Much better than those that don't speak of it.

The one place where Feiglin's end result would differ from Rabbi Kahane, is nobody would have been able to run a jewish govt like Kahane.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 06:45:53 PM by q_q_ »

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2008, 07:24:12 PM »
Of course their is no such thing as a muslim(or arab) being loyal to Israel, so obviously that statement is wrong. QQ, I have read that article and it is obvious that Feiglin is willing to compromise. Are you aware that he just removed certain "controversial" viewpoints from his website because the leftist media was hitting him on it. For instance, he removed a section where he spoke of cutting off basic needs like water to the muzzies. That was the old Feiglin but the new one has arrived.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2008, 07:30:26 PM »
You couldn't be more wrong.   Chaim never "exposed" Feiglin unless by "expose" you mean calling him a good Jew, which Chaim has done countless times on his program.   You have been proven wrong by those who quoted the interview, and/or heard it in Hebrew (Zelhar), and now your baseless hatred is showing itself.
Kahane Was Right, there is no need to attack DownwithIslam like this.

DownwithIslam, he is at least partly right though. Chaim has not attacked Feiglin. He has called him a good Jew who has unfortunately helped the Likud establishment.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2008, 07:32:33 PM »
You couldn't be more wrong.   Chaim never "exposed" Feiglin unless by "expose" you mean calling him a good Jew, which Chaim has done countless times on his program.   You have been proven wrong by those who quoted the interview, and/or heard it in Hebrew (Zelhar), and now your baseless hatred is showing itself.
Kahane Was Right, there is no need to attack DownwithIslam like this.

DownwithIslam, he is at least partly right though. Chaim has not attacked Feiglin. He has called him a good Jew who has unfortunately helped the Likud establishment.

He said that on this past weeks ask jtf so you are right about that. But I remember shows he did in the past in which he said that Feiglin has caused terrible things to happen and is not the answer. Besides, Chaim is strongly against him running in the likud so Chaim would never support what Feiglin is doing which is strengthening the likud.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2008, 07:38:02 PM »
You have proven that you have the literary skills of a shvartza. Get your mommy to help you read that article before you open that anti semitic, lubavitch hating mouth of yours.
This was completely uncalled for.

Chaim said just last week that he thinks he may well work with Feiglin when he gets to Israel. I don't understand the context of what Feiglin said, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

There are plenty of certain frauds out there that are a threat to us, like Mike Huckster and Mike Faggot. Let's give Feiglin a break for now.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2008, 07:42:05 PM »
You have proven that you have the literary skills of a shvartza. Get your mommy to help you read that article before you open that anti semitic, lubavitch hating mouth of yours.
This was completely uncalled for.

Chaim said just last week that he thinks he may well work with Feiglin when he gets to Israel. I don't understand the context of what Feiglin said, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

There are plenty of certain frauds out there that are a threat to us, like Mike Huckster and Mike Faggot. Let's give Feiglin a break for now.

Chaim said that before Feiglin started acting like a fraud after winning the 20th spot on the Likud list. I wonder what Chaim would say about Feiglin now. If Chaim comes in here and explains that I am wrong about Feiglin, then I will admit defeat.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2008, 07:43:12 PM »
Q_q and Muman have a very good point. For him to say all Arabs should be expelled would not only be political suicide (you know how insane Israel's secular majority is when it comes to Arab "civil rights"), but would likely subject him to arrest, conviction, and a couple of years in a Shabak gulag for "incitement". We all know that Bolshevik Israel has powerful laws against "incitement against Arabs".

This was like when Sarah Palin said "Yes, I support two states" but then every single thing she said after that was clearly and exclusively in support of Israel. She had no choice but to pay lipservice to the establishment there. But we know where she stands, and (I think) we know where Feiglin stands. He is by far the best of the mainstream politicians in Israel, and even if he is not a perfect Kahanist (and Chaim has never said that he is), he is light-years better than Weewee Netanloser or Gayhud Holemert.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2008, 07:44:22 PM »
If Chaim comes in here and explains that I am wrong about Feiglin, then I will admit defeat.
Just give this topic a rest for now--it's not cool to attack everyone you disagree with, especially before a statement from Chaim. Trust me here.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2008, 07:46:54 PM »
Q_q and Muman have a very good point. For him to say all Arabs should be expelled would not only be political suicide (you know how insane Israel's secular majority is when it comes to Arab "civil rights"), but would likely subject him to arrest, conviction, and a couple of years in a Shabak gulag for "incitement". We all know that Bolshevik Israel has powerful laws against "incitement against Arabs".

This was like when Sarah Palin said "Yes, I support two states" but then every single thing she said after that was clearly and exclusively in support of Israel. She had no choice but to pay lipservice to the establishment there. But we know where she stands, and (I think) we know where Feiglin stands. He is by far the best of the mainstream politicians in Israel, and even if he is not a perfect Kahanist (and Chaim has never said that he is), he is light-years better than Weewee Netanloser or Gayhud Holemert.

No, I disagree with that. He has to state his true positions. Rabbi Kahane did that and was en-route to getiing 10-12 knesset seats right before he was killed. Can you imagine the damage Feiglin can do to the right wing kahanist camp in Israel if he sells out and compromises. The right wing will be demoralized and they will feel that everyone ultimately sells out. We cannot allow Feiglin in now that he has shown sign of compromise. And I think he has the potential to cause more harm than anything else.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2008, 07:47:49 PM »
If Chaim comes in here and explains that I am wrong about Feiglin, then I will admit defeat.
Just give this topic a rest for now--it's not cool to attack everyone you disagree with, especially before a statement from Chaim. Trust me here.
Kahnaewasrightbt unleashed the first personal attack in this thread. You can check the posts.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Dan

  • Moderator
  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 4308
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2008, 07:52:14 PM »
In the words on a 'Great' Man: Why can't we all just get along?!

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2008, 08:38:27 PM »
Of course their is no such thing as a muslim(or arab) being loyal to Israel, so obviously that statement is wrong. QQ, I have read that article and it is obvious that Feiglin is willing to compromise. Are you aware that he just removed certain "controversial" viewpoints from his website because the leftist media was hitting him on it. For instance, he removed a section where he spoke of cutting off basic needs like water to the muzzies. That was the old Feiglin but the new one has arrived.

You are right to be suspicious of him when he said what he said that way he did. And that he removed those things from his website.

We know not to just give israeli politicians the benefit of the doubt..

But what you did was you took what he said , and concluded that
"he has reversed all the positions he previously held. he now says the arabs should not be thrown out of israel. "

Now, it may well be that Feiglin if he got power would indeed not throw the arabs out. Infact, it's very likely that he wouldn't throw them out!! (and we know the arabs won't be loyal to israel, that's for  sure)

But to conclude as you did, as if it was a logical conclusion, was wrong.

It is logical to be suspicious of him and concerned.. (though there are also innocent reasons for what he said)..  And his stated position there is no different -logically- from rabbi kahane, it's just said in a different way, a strange way that may well be cause for concern.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 08:43:32 PM by q_q_ »

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2008, 08:42:34 PM »
I believe I am right about Feiglin. Any individual who is dumb enought to work with the Likud is not what we are looking for anyways. We need someone like Rabbi Kahane who started his own party and never compromised once. The closest person to that is Chaim Ben Pesach. Their is no need for us to have any hope in Feiglin only to be screwed by him. He hasn't even been elected yet and already he is playing games. Can you imagine what he will do once he gets in power to maintain his position at the country club?
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline q_q_

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3819
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2008, 08:48:29 PM »
I believe I am right about Feiglin. Any individual who is dumb enought to work with the Likud is not what we are looking for anyways. We need someone like Rabbi Kahane who started his own party and never compromised once. The closest person to that is Chaim Ben Pesach. Their is no need for us to have any hope in Feiglin only to be screwed by him. He hasn't even been elected yet and already he is playing games. Can you imagine what he will do once he gets in power to maintain his position at the country club?

You see the way you operate it's as if you have 2 modes,
 support
and reject/hate..

When you choose reject/hate, you jump to any irrational reasons against them.   When you choose support, you jump to any irrational reasons for them. 

In this case, you choose hate/reject.

I agree that him joining the Likud probably won't help. Rabbi Kahane himself preferred the idea of -referendum-. Much better.  And at one point (some point around 2002-2007) the majourity of israelis were polled and wanted transfer, shame it wasn't an actual referendum!

But all this doesn't make your first post(which you've been defending) any less wrong.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2008, 08:51:32 PM »
Lets keep the conversation simple and leave out these button analogies.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23384
  • Real Kahanist
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2008, 08:54:50 PM »
Kahnaewasrightbt unleashed the first personal attack in this thread. You can check the posts.
Yeah, and I told him off too.

Feiglin is not perfect, but he is better than any current Israeli politician. He has never said he is a Kahanist, and Chaim has always said that he disagrees with him on many things.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2008, 09:56:02 PM »
Kahnaewasrightbt unleashed the first personal attack in this thread. You can check the posts.
Yeah, and I told him off too.

Feiglin is not perfect, but he is better than any current Israeli politician. He has never said he is a Kahanist, and Chaim has always said that he disagrees with him on many things.

Chaimfan, I would support Avigdor Liberman over Feiglin simply because he can't demoralize the right wing as much if something should go wrong.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2008, 11:07:33 PM »
And finally, the jerks over at the splinter forum are so excited about Feiglin so that tells us that real kahanists shouldn't support him. The shelly rubin supporters never have taken a real kahanist position.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Online Chaim Ben Pesach

  • Administrator
  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5772
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2008, 11:27:59 PM »
                                                                                                                                                                                בס''ד

First, there is no way we can become a meaningful movement if every disagreement descends into name calling and personal insults.

Some of our members had a difference of opinion here. So what? We have to learn to respect each other even when there are differences of opinion.

Moshe Feiglin is not a Kahanist and never claimed to be. Is that a problem? In my opinion, yes. Because I view Kahanism as the only real solution.

I like Feiglin personally, and I certainly do not consider him to be like the other politicians in Israel. I think he sincerely wants to save Israel.

But it is precisely because I like him that I am disappointed by many of his actions. For example:

*Feiglin vigorously condemned Dr. Baruch Goldstein, Hashem yikom damo (may G-d avenge his blood). Dr. Goldstein was a captain in the Israeli army who was informed by his superiors that there would be a huge massacre of the Jews in Kiryat Arba and Chevron by the Arab Nazis. To prevent the massacre, Dr. Goldstein went to Mearat Hamachpelah (the Cave of the Patriachs) and shot to death 29 Muslim terrorists who were praying on the second most sacred Jewish spot in the world. Dr. Goldstein himself was then brutally murdered by the Arab Nazi mob. So he gave his life to prevent a massacre of Jews. As a result of what Dr. Goldstein did, the entire area was curfewed and the planned Arab massacre of Jews never took place. Feiglin strongly condemned Dr. Goldstein. I think that at the least Feiglin should have refused to say anything. He would not have been banned politically for refusing to discuss the issue. But to condemn a Jew who gave his life to save his fellow Jews is something I would never have done. Even if it meant paying a political price.

*Feiglin strongly condemned Yigal Amir, who killed Yitzchak Rabin. My position is that Amir was entrapped by the Shabak (the Israeli KGB) who incited him to kill Rabin, and therefore it is the Shabak which is responsible for the assassination. Because he was entrapped, Amir should be released from prison immediately. This position that I take is not illegal in Israel, and it does not betray a Jew who wanted to save his people (Amir).

*Feiglin has supported and helped numerous Likud politicians who are evil people. He supported Ehud Smolmert, Limor Livnat and other disgusting crooks who eventually worked to surrender Jewish land and expel thousands of Jews from Gush Katif. Call me naive or inflexible or unrealistic, but I will not support corrupt Likud criminals who are destroying the Jewish homeland. Feiglin has made many deals that I believe are morally and ethically wrong just to advance himself in the Likud. I'm sure that he convinced himself that he was doing it for the good of Israel, but I don't trust a leader who makes unsavory deals just to get ahead.

*In the most recent Likud primary, Feiglin strongly supported Benny Begin, the son of Menachem Begin. In fact, Begin was the number two candidate on Feiglin's recommended list of candidates. Benny Begin supported the Sinai retreat that his father carried out; Begin said that he is embarrassed when people say that we must have a Jewish majority in Israel, because such talk is not democratic and it's insulting to the growing Arab Muslim Nazi minority; Begin called Rechavam Zeevi (Gandhi) "moral pollution" for advocating a voluntary transfer of the Arabs out of Israel; but Begin would never refer to the Arab Nazis as "moral pollution"; Begin insisted that Bibi Netanyahu bring Dan Meridor, an extreme leftist traitor, into the LIkud Knesset list - Meridor is a slavish defender of the self-hating "Supreme Court" and Meridor favors suicidal Israeli surrender of the entire Biblical heartland.

*Feiglin is now encouraging all rightwing Jews to vote Likud. The Likud is a disaster that has retreated from more Jewish land than the openly leftist parties. For Feiglin to urge all Jews to vote Likud just so that he could get elected is very bad, in my view. Feiglin will be all by himself out of 30 or 40 Likud Knesset members. For people to vote Likud just because Feiglin is one of the candidates is a big mistake. The rest of the Likud Knesset members are the same old politicians who have failed the Jewish people repeatedly. Having Feiglin there as just one out of 30 or 40 of these Likud Knesset members will not protect Israel.

Well, that's my opinion.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2008, 11:33:11 PM »
Had I known that Feiglin condemned Dr. Goldstein, I would of used vulgar language towards him. Of course Feiglin is not the answer. In fact, I hope Netanyahu throws Feiglin out of the likud now that I know What Feiglin thinks of Boroch kappel Goldstein and Yigal Amir.


I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2008, 11:40:36 PM »
Of course I agree with you Chaim that the things Feiglin di in regard to the Dr Goldstein and Yigal Amir situation is problematic. I think I take a much stronger stance against Feiglin than you do Chaim. I personally prefer a few other politicians in Israel over Feiglin right now. Are these politicians scum, absolutely. They are better only because they can't cause the damage Feiglin can when he compromises.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3536
  • Kahane Was Right
    • Facebook Profile
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2008, 04:02:23 AM »
I had higher hopes for him. But a real religous canidate needs to get into power and not by way of the Likud.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3536
  • Kahane Was Right
    • Facebook Profile
Re: to all the shmucks who support feiglin.
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2008, 04:06:22 AM »
Had I known that Feiglin condemned Dr. Goldstein, I would of used vulgar language towards him. Of course Feiglin is not the answer. In fact, I hope Netanyahu throws Feiglin out of the likud now that I know What Feiglin thinks of Boroch kappel Goldstein and Yigal Amir.

I don't think Bibi thinks of Dr. Golstein any higher. He is going to be Prime Minister he wouldn't support someone like him no matter how right he was. May G-d Avenge is Blood.



« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 02:15:15 PM by דוד בן זאב אריה »
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh