Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Accepting the Torah, But Remaining a Gentile
Harzel:
I would keep away form Breslav. They are not at all like Chabad.
In fact the original Breslav chassidim (probably by now outnumbered to new joiners) are associated to (if not part of) the ultracrazy anti-zionist "Haeda Hacharedit" from Jerusalem.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on December 18, 2008, 12:27:53 PM ---I would keep away form Breslav. They are not at all like Chabad.
In fact the original Breslav chassidim (probably by now outnumbered to new joiners) are associated to (if not part of) the ultracrazy anti-zionist "Haeda Hacharedit" from Jerusalem.
--- End quote ---
Zelhar,
You are aware that Breslov is located in Jerusalem now... They are not zionist but they support Jews in Israel and they support people making Aliyah... Please provide a link supporting your claims. Chabad is more anti-Zionist than Breslov in many respects... Breslov doesnt support sending people to the diaspora rather they support bringing them back to Israel.
Harzel:
Muman I don't want to make a rush judgement against all Breslavs. The fact is that they are hardly (if at all) a single Chassiduth. One of their factions is lead by Rabbi Yaakov Meir Schechter, who is an anti zionist from Mea Shearim, Jerusalem. He and his followers are descendants of the original Breslav Chassidim and they don't like to recruit others to their ranks.
On the other hand, rabbi Eliezer Berland (who bacame breslav, not born into it), is actually very right winger. There is not much friendship between different factions of the Breslavs. The common thing is that they all revere Rabbi Nachman and his student rabbi Natan and study their teachings.
q_q_:
Neither Breslov or Chabad are "dangerous" and need to be "kept away from" !
(it is possible with chabad that you don't like a particular chabad house, but then another will be fine)
You could replace the term zionist with "National Religious". Hardcore non or anti zionists won't like that either.. the question is, what aspects of it are they for and what aspects are they against. I think you'd find that they favour -continued- sovereignty(to protect(not endanger) jewish lives) , and an army(to protect jewish lives), and even not giving away land (to not endanger jewish lives).
All because if we don't then jewish lives will be lost.
A RZ/proper national religious, would say the above are torah mandates in themselves.
G-d actually wants us ro rule there. (may mention the RAMBAN that includes a mitzva of conquer it in every generation)
The 1967 6 day war paralleled the bible story of Joshua's 6 day war and is a clear obvious sign that G-d wanted and wants us to conquer the land. (so, divine providence)
A fairly hardcore anti zionist might say it's a sin, and if they could remove it peacefully they would but it's not possible. The arabs would not let us just leave in peace, they would pounce. So therefore it stays. A matter of not endangering jewish lives even more.
muman613:
Zelhar,
As someone here in another thread posted it is common for Orthodox strains of Judaism to take up what appears to be an 'anti-zionist' stance. What this really is is opposition to a 'Secular State of Israel'. All strains of Judaism, especially Chassidic strains, are ZIONIST in the sense that they envision the future with Jews in Israel, run as a Torah state. This is what our Prophets foresaw, not the phoney baloney secular Jewish state run by clowns like Smolmert. It is a Chillul Hashem that Jews in Israel are the pawns of America or any other power in the world. All forms of Orthodox Judaism hold disdain for the going ons in Israel today.
When I read the news in Israel sometimes I ask myself why are Jews in Israel altogether. It sometimes seems the majority of Israelis have no connection to Judaism and don't even know why they are there, the land is not Holy to them. I have a dream that when the time comes their Jewish spirit will awaken inside them and the era of Moshiach will be ushered in.
Breslov {the strain led by Rabbi Shalom Arush} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalom_arush is working on bringing Moshiach and they feel that he is right around the corner. In order for the Messianic age to happen all Jews must be in Israel {the ingathering of exiles}. Although it is not your typical 'Zionist' ideology, it is the way I see Jewish history.
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