I respectfully disagree with chaim on one point

[imaknick]

I disagree with chaim on one point he said on ask JTF and would like to know if others agree with me.  I also hope Chaim reads and responds. 

On Ask JTF, I agree with Chaim that the war on Hamas is a gimmick for the upcoming election.  I also agree that Hamas and Fatah are both terrorists and Fatah is the smarter of the two.   I know that Fatah lies about what they want to do with Israel in Enlish and Hebrew, and Hamas says it out right. 

With that being said,  I believe Israel should still fight Hamas in Gaza  no matter the circumstances the left in Israel put forth.  Even though Fatah are terrorists as well and want the destruction of israel:  Hamas, Islamic Jihad,and Hezbolla, are the ones killing Israelis TODAY, firing missiles into sderot and other cities in the Negev, therefore they should be dealt with. Even if Israel destroys hamas and Fatah takes over Gaza again,  it might be better for the civilians living in southern Israel.   After that if Fatah starts with Israel we could deal with them the same way we are dealing with Hamas.  After all more Arab terrorists are being killed now.  We can destroy Hamas and Jihad now, and later only have one faction to deal with.   Even though Fatah are smarter, they are not smarter than Jews and cannot fight the jews.

[Daleksfearme]

I think that the remarks on "Ask JTF" had more to do with the timing and type of attacks that are currently underway. It is the view of the JTF that Gaza has always been a part of Israel and should never have been given up. These missile attacks have been going on for a long time and this response by the Government seems to coinside with the upcoming elections a bit too closely. At least that is what I got out of his response to your question.

(Chaim - if you read this post I hope that it is an accurate assessment of your "Ask JTF" comments. I am by no means attempting to speak for you in a disrespectful way)

[zachor_ve_kavod]

It depends.  If Israel is making a statement "If you kill our Jews, we will annihilate you" and then wipes out Hamas and then refuses to deal with Fatah, that's great.  But I have a suspicion that Israeli leaders think that they can deal with Fatah.  Even though there is no evidence of this.  So if Israel is trying to get rid of the "troublesome" arabs, so that they can then deal with what they mistakenly believe are the "good" arabs, then that would be a grave mistake.

[briann]

It depends.  If Israel is making a statement "If you kill our Jews, we will annihilate you" and then wipes out Hamas and then refuses to deal with Fatah, that's great.  But I have a suspicion that Israeli leaders think that they can deal with Fatah.  Even though there is no evidence of this.  So if Israel is trying to get rid of the "troublesome" arabs, so that they can then deal with what they mistakenly believe are the "good" arabs, then that would be a grave mistake.

If they Inhilate Hamas... just to put the Fatah in power...  it will cause a trainwreck.

The Pal Auth will believe Fatah to be illegitimate... and vote something even worse into power.   It will be Hamas on steroids.... possibly under a slightly different name.... or not.

I can't see anything positive coming out of all this. 

[zachor_ve_kavod]

It depends.  If Israel is making a statement "If you kill our Jews, we will annihilate you" and then wipes out Hamas and then refuses to deal with Fatah, that's great.  But I have a suspicion that Israeli leaders think that they can deal with Fatah.  Even though there is no evidence of this.  So if Israel is trying to get rid of the "troublesome" arabs, so that they can then deal with what they mistakenly believe are the "good" arabs, then that would be a grave mistake.

If they Inhilate Hamas... just to put the Fatah in power...  it will cause a trainwreck.

The Pal Auth will believe Fatah to be illegitimate... and vote something even worse into power.   It will be Hamas on steroids.... possibly under a slightly different name.... or not.

I can't see anything positive coming out of all this. 

I share your pessimism, though viscerally it makes me happy to see Israel retaliate for once.  But I have no faith in the leaders of Israel to do the right thing.  The right thing would be (at the very minimum) to destroy Hamas and to refuse to talk to the PA.  Instead they should warn them at the PA that they could share the same fate as Hamas if they even think of getting out of line.  Then when they do get out of line, follow through.  That's the minimum.  And I don't see the weak leaders of Israel doing this.  They still have the ridiculous belief that it matters what other nations think of them.

[briann]

It depends.  If Israel is making a statement "If you kill our Jews, we will annihilate you" and then wipes out Hamas and then refuses to deal with Fatah, that's great.  But I have a suspicion that Israeli leaders think that they can deal with Fatah.  Even though there is no evidence of this.  So if Israel is trying to get rid of the "troublesome" arabs, so that they can then deal with what they mistakenly believe are the "good" arabs, then that would be a grave mistake.

If they Inhilate Hamas... just to put the Fatah in power...  it will cause a trainwreck.

The Pal Auth will believe Fatah to be illegitimate... and vote something even worse into power.   It will be Hamas on steroids.... possibly under a slightly different name.... or not.

I can't see anything positive coming out of all this. 

I share your pessimism, though viscerally it makes me happy to see Israel retaliate for once.  But I have no faith in the leaders of Israel to do the right thing.  The right thing would be (at the very minimum) to destroy Hamas and to refuse to talk to the PA.  Instead they should warn them at the PA that they could share the same fate as Hamas if they even think of getting out of line.  Then when they do get out of line, follow through.  That's the minimum.  And I don't see the weak leaders of Israel doing this.  They still have the ridiculous belief that it matters what other nations think of them.

yes... its nice to see Hamas get a taste of its own medicine.... but... Yes... this is like killing off the SA and putting the SS in power.   It completely ignores the the root ideology and root cause.  Everything Israel seems to be doing is pointless and stupid and short-term... and giving more fodder for the Islamic Reich.   I am starting to think.. more and more... that only a full-out war will ever solve this... something that topples all of Islam.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

It depends.  If Israel is making a statement "If you kill our Jews, we will annihilate you" and then wipes out Hamas and then refuses to deal with Fatah, that's great.  But I have a suspicion that Israeli leaders think that they can deal with Fatah.  Even though there is no evidence of this.  So if Israel is trying to get rid of the "troublesome" arabs, so that they can then deal with what they mistakenly believe are the "good" arabs, then that would be a grave mistake.

If they Inhilate Hamas... just to put the Fatah in power...  it will cause a trainwreck.

The Pal Auth will believe Fatah to be illegitimate... and vote something even worse into power.   It will be Hamas on steroids.... possibly under a slightly different name.... or not.

I can't see anything positive coming out of all this. 

I share your pessimism, though viscerally it makes me happy to see Israel retaliate for once.  But I have no faith in the leaders of Israel to do the right thing.  The right thing would be (at the very minimum) to destroy Hamas and to refuse to talk to the PA.  Instead they should warn them at the PA that they could share the same fate as Hamas if they even think of getting out of line.  Then when they do get out of line, follow through.  That's the minimum.  And I don't see the weak leaders of Israel doing this.  They still have the ridiculous belief that it matters what other nations think of them.

yes... its nice to see Hamas get a taste of its own medicine.... but... Yes... this is like killing off the SA and putting the SS in power.   It completely ignores the the root ideology and root cause.  Everything Israel seems to be doing is pointless and stupid and short-term... and giving more fodder for the Islamic Reich.   I am starting to think.. more and more... that only a full-out war will ever solve this... something that topples all of Islam.

There are 1.2 billion muslims and only 13 million Jews.  I can't see how war, in the conventional sense of the term, would work.  The best way to defeat islam, in my opinion, is to starve them to death.  Make oil as worthless a commodity as sand.  Oil is all that they have.  They can't produce anything.  They certainly can't compete in a global market.  They have all of their eggs in that one basket, oil.  The problem is that America can't do this alone.  To make oil worthless, the whole world needs to stop using it.  If oil becomes worthless, in one generation Islam would cease to exist.

If you're interested in listening to a great speach about oil, listen to Ann Korin.
http://www.radicalislam.org/content/anne-korins-oil-solution

[DownwithIslam]

I think that the simplest thing is to remove all the muslims from the area and then we won't have to deal with either fatah or hamas.

[Debbie Shafer]

Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Alaxa Martyrs Brigade, they are all terrorist bent on the destruction of Israel.  The Muslim world cannot get rid of its hate or vengeance for Israel or the West.   They only under stand one method, and that his helping them to meet Allah.