DANGER: Jewish Insanity!!!

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Dear Friends,

I think Kadima will lose this war both militarily and politically. We will have a situation similar to the Lebanon war.

It was clear from the start.

Israel could not win a war in Gaza, when their first step was to ask Egypt to seal the border on the Sinai not to let the so called civilians to run away from Gaza to Egypt.

If instead they did let them go, they would have killed not two, but six birds with the same shot:

1) Once and for all get rid of a massive enemy population in Gaza
2) Avoid casualties among the so called “civilians”
3) Quicker finish the war by burning down the whole territory after declaring it a “civilian free” military zone
4) If Egypt ended up killing the Gazan Arabs, their blood would be on their brothers’ hands, not on the Jews’ hands
5) Establish a new reputation for Israel as a problem solver, not as causer.
6) Create a long term opportunity to chase out Arabs from the Sinai.


Unfortunately, this did not happen, and while the amount of revengeful feelings in Israel is rising, the people’s emotions usually fall into the wrong direction.

I heard many insane statements from my Israeli friends and relatives, such as:

• Everyone hates the Palestinians, including Egyptians and Jordanians. As if they are any different.
• Nobody wants the Palestinians, and thus we cannot send them over to their brothers and sisters in Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.
• We have to kill them (Gazan Arabs) to the last.

What my humble opinion is – while you deserved the right to kill them to the last, the fact is: YOU DON’T HAVE TO.

AS AN OLD MAN SAID: YOU DON’T HAVE TO RAPE A WOMAN, WHO’S READY TO SLEEP WITH YOU HERSELF.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Who is for killing?  But in a zero sum game where Jews have to choose their survival or the survival of their enemies, I hope that Jews choose their survival.  The insanity of our times is that many Jews prefer to lie down and be killed rather than doing the killing.

I have said repeatedly that it did not have to come to this.  If Israel had an ounce of sense, they would have annexed those territories and expelled the arabs.  Nobody had to die, certainly no Jewish boys had to die.

But in a sense, this kind of talk is irrelevant--Nobody here runs Israel.  Now that Israel has chosen a course of action where they are finally defending themselves, we must support them. 

If we are going to rail against Israel when it acts insanely, then we should show support for Israel when it acts rationally.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Dear Friends,

I think Kadima will lose this war both militarily and politically. We will have a situation similar to the Lebanon war.

It was clear from the start.

Israel could not win a war in Gaza, when their first step was to ask Egypt to seal the border on the Sinai not to let the so called civilians to run away from Gaza to Egypt.

If instead they did let them go, they would have killed not two, but six birds with the same shot:

1) Once and for all get rid of a massive enemy population in Gaza
2) Avoid casualties among the so called “civilians”
3) Quicker finish the war by burning down the whole territory after declaring it a “civilian free” military zone
4) If Egypt ended up killing the Gazan Arabs, their blood would be on their brothers’ hands, not on the Jews’ hands
5) Establish a new reputation for Israel as a problem solver, not as causer.
6) Create a long term opportunity to chase out Arabs from the Sinai.


Unfortunately, this did not happen, and while the amount of revengeful feelings in Israel is rising, the people’s emotions usually fall into the wrong direction.

I heard many insane statements from my Israeli friends and relatives, such as:

• Everyone hates the Palestinians, including Egyptians and Jordanians. As if they are any different.
• Nobody wants the Palestinians, and thus we cannot send them over to their brothers and sisters in Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.
• We have to kill them (Gazan Arabs) to the last.

What my humble opinion is – while you deserved the right to kill them to the last, the fact is: YOU DON’T HAVE TO.

AS AN OLD MAN SAID: YOU DON’T HAVE TO RAPE A WOMAN, WHO’S READY TO SLEEP WITH YOU HERSELF.

I told everybody in the beginning that Israel would lose this war on purpose just like Lebanon. Israel's Bolshevik leaders are not stupid and know that losing a war makes it much easier to sell "peace" proposals.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

CF, I totally agree with you.

Zahor, I support ends, not means. These actions will not bring us near to the ends, if not farther.

[q_q_]

Zvulun Ben Moshe,   very interesting post.

[muman613]

Dear Friends,

I think Kadima will lose this war both militarily and politically. We will have a situation similar to the Lebanon war.

It was clear from the start.

Israel could not win a war in Gaza, when their first step was to ask Egypt to seal the border on the Sinai not to let the so called civilians to run away from Gaza to Egypt.

If instead they did let them go, they would have killed not two, but six birds with the same shot:

1) Once and for all get rid of a massive enemy population in Gaza
2) Avoid casualties among the so called “civilians”
3) Quicker finish the war by burning down the whole territory after declaring it a “civilian free” military zone
4) If Egypt ended up killing the Gazan Arabs, their blood would be on their brothers’ hands, not on the Jews’ hands
5) Establish a new reputation for Israel as a problem solver, not as causer.
6) Create a long term opportunity to chase out Arabs from the Sinai.


Unfortunately, this did not happen, and while the amount of revengeful feelings in Israel is rising, the people’s emotions usually fall into the wrong direction.

I heard many insane statements from my Israeli friends and relatives, such as:

• Everyone hates the Palestinians, including Egyptians and Jordanians. As if they are any different.
• Nobody wants the Palestinians, and thus we cannot send them over to their brothers and sisters in Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.
• We have to kill them (Gazan Arabs) to the last.

What my humble opinion is – while you deserved the right to kill them to the last, the fact is: YOU DON’T HAVE TO.

AS AN OLD MAN SAID: YOU DON’T HAVE TO RAPE A WOMAN, WHO’S READY TO SLEEP WITH YOU HERSELF.

Shalom,

The Israeli friend of mine at work doesnt feel like any of the things you mentioned. He doesn't think we need to kill them all {I wish he did}. He just told me today that his sisters home was hit by a missile last week. He is beginning to realize that War is the only course.

I wish I heard an Israeli speak about fighting against these scumbag arabs. If this is your impression I am hopeful...

Good Evening,

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Observation, not impression, my friend.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Dear Friends,

I think Kadima will lose this war both militarily and politically. We will have a situation similar to the Lebanon war.

It was clear from the start.

Israel could not win a war in Gaza, when their first step was to ask Egypt to seal the border on the Sinai not to let the so called civilians to run away from Gaza to Egypt.

If instead they did let them go, they would have killed not two, but six birds with the same shot:

1) Once and for all get rid of a massive enemy population in Gaza
2) Avoid casualties among the so called “civilians”
3) Quicker finish the war by burning down the whole territory after declaring it a “civilian free” military zone
4) If Egypt ended up killing the Gazan Arabs, their blood would be on their brothers’ hands, not on the Jews’ hands
5) Establish a new reputation for Israel as a problem solver, not as causer.
6) Create a long term opportunity to chase out Arabs from the Sinai.


Unfortunately, this did not happen, and while the amount of revengeful feelings in Israel is rising, the people’s emotions usually fall into the wrong direction.

I heard many insane statements from my Israeli friends and relatives, such as:

• Everyone hates the Palestinians, including Egyptians and Jordanians. As if they are any different.
• Nobody wants the Palestinians, and thus we cannot send them over to their brothers and sisters in Egypt, Jordan, and Syria.
• We have to kill them (Gazan Arabs) to the last.

What my humble opinion is – while you deserved the right to kill them to the last, the fact is: YOU DON’T HAVE TO.

AS AN OLD MAN SAID: YOU DON’T HAVE TO RAPE A WOMAN, WHO’S READY TO SLEEP WITH YOU HERSELF.

Shalom,

The Israeli friend of mine at work doesnt feel like any of the things you mentioned. He doesn't think we need to kill them all {I wish he did}. He just told me today that his sisters home was hit by a missile last week. He is beginning to realize that War is the only course.

I wish I heard an Israeli speak about fighting against these scumbag arabs. If this is your impression I am hopeful...

Good Evening,

War is only recourse? Fine. But what does your friend see as the conclusion of this war: mere removal of Hamas or again killing all Arabs there?

[muman613]

<snip>

Shalom,

The Israeli friend of mine at work doesnt feel like any of the things you mentioned. He doesn't think we need to kill them all {I wish he did}. He just told me today that his sisters home was hit by a missile last week. He is beginning to realize that War is the only course.

I wish I heard an Israeli speak about fighting against these scumbag arabs. If this is your impression I am hopeful...

Good Evening,

War is only recourse? Fine. But what does your friend see as the conclusion of this war: mere removal of Hamas or again killing all Arabs there?

My friend Avner is very secular and moderate. He thinks Kahanism is racist and terrorist. He is a very good person and very caring. I am sad that he doesn't consider himself Jewish {he and his wife were born Jewish and in Israel} and is raising his children without any religion.

Until recently he really believed that the rockets could keep falling without hurting anyone. I think the fact that his sister was recently affected by a rocket from aza has changed his opinion a little. He thinks a 2-state solution is a good idea and that they can co-exist in the state of Israel. He has said that the Jewish majority is at stake in many areas and that is reason for Israel to retreat from these cities. We agree to disagree on many issues.

PS: It is i who thinks war is the only recourse... I was trying to say he is beginning to see the light which I see which is that they hate us and want our land. We must fight to keep what is ours. I believe we agreed when I said that the goal should be complete removal of Hamas from the aza territory.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

<snip>

Shalom,

The Israeli friend of mine at work doesnt feel like any of the things you mentioned. He doesn't think we need to kill them all {I wish he did}. He just told me today that his sisters home was hit by a missile last week. He is beginning to realize that War is the only course.

I wish I heard an Israeli speak about fighting against these scumbag arabs. If this is your impression I am hopeful...

Good Evening,

War is only recourse? Fine. But what does your friend see as the conclusion of this war: mere removal of Hamas or again killing all Arabs there?

My friend Avner is very secular and moderate. He thinks Kahanism is racist and terrorist. He is a very good person and very caring. I am sad that he doesn't consider himself Jewish {he and his wife were born Jewish and in Israel} and is raising his children without any religion.

Until recently he really believed that the rockets could keep falling without hurting anyone. I think the fact that his sister was recently affected by a rocket from aza has changed his opinion a little. He thinks a 2-state solution is a good idea and that they can co-exist in the state of Israel. He has said that the Jewish majority is at stake in many areas and that is reason for Israel to retreat from these cities. We agree to disagree on many issues.

PS: It is i who thinks war is the only recourse... I was trying to say he is beginning to see the light which I see which is that they hate us and want our land. We must fight to keep what is ours. I believe we agreed when I said that the goal should be complete removal of Hamas from the aza territory.

But mere control over a territory is not enough, if you keep an enemy population on it.

War is not the only recourse, for war is only means, which means nothing without a reasonable objective.

Remember Aikido? Transform the incoming blow into a counter attack by simply directing the blow and not confronting it.

[muman613]

Yes I hear what you are saying and to me it seemed that the goal was to remove Hamas and its weapons from the Aza territory. Over the last week it appeared that the goals were being met, targeting of ranking Hamas officers, targeted bombings of weapons depots and training headquarters. I have been very impressed with the effectiveness of hitting these targets with minimal 'collateral damage'.

You realize that even thinking that Egypt would allow people to flee from Aza is insane. That is no solution because Egypt has nothing to gain and lots to lose by allowing that. I watched some of Chaims videos which explained that the Egyptians are not moderates at all. Even Sadat was a crooked bastard when dealing with Israel. It is obvious that Egypt enjoys making Israel suffer with the so called palistinians.

I believe the solution is to eradicate those involved in rocket launches and ranking hamas officers. Once the smoke clears there will be a vacuum of power which will either be filled by more radicals or maybe by some moderates. It is not sane to allow Israels land to be used against it by these terrorists. If they don't want to live next to Israel they should be removed.

[Raulmarrio2000]

I agree. Israel should have let everyone go to Egypt if they want. And , in long term, the only solution for Arabs in EY is to send them to neighbouring Arab countries where they belong. Israel cannot keep them inside, and not all are terrorists, so they cannot be killed (except during war). Unless Israel dares to question Egyptian and Jordanian sovereignty, there is no solution.

[Sentinel For Truth]

I support the country of Israel and the Jewish people, NOT its government.  Today I support them in this righteous battle, but am skeptical of their true goal which I believe is to facilitate easier the handover of her Biblical heartland to these muslim nazi beasts once "order" has been restored.

Muslim nazis are too stupid to even create the illusion of peace for a moment in order to gain their own state.  I fear once they have basic impulse control imposed upon them, they will be given a state and soon afterward America will be destroyed by God for our wicked facilitation of this abomination.  We don't have much time.

[q_q_]

right sentinel,  they don't just want to knock out hamas, they want to get fatah in power..  probably want to negotiate with fatah.  But negotiating or not, they'd give away land. If not by negotiation, then unilaterally.

if negotiation, then what they "forget" about Fatah is that a branch is the al aqsa martyrs brigade . That's the main reason why Arafat was deemed a terrorist, he ran Fatah! Mahmood Abbas does now..
The only reason why they have no suicide bombings from gaza is the fence.
So people have "forgotton" that Fatah are terrorists. Not that it makes any difference, because as I said, they'd withdraw unilaterally.

At least if they are trying to put fatah in power, they are going to create complete chaos!!  putting the weaker party in power while bombing the place and making the population angry gaining support for Hamas. It's not their goal to create chaos, they just want a "better partner".

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Yes I hear what you are saying and to me it seemed that the goal was to remove Hamas and its weapons from the Aza territory. Over the last week it appeared that the goals were being met, targeting of ranking Hamas officers, targeted bombings of weapons depots and training headquarters. I have been very impressed with the effectiveness of hitting these targets with minimal 'collateral damage'.

You realize that even thinking that Egypt would allow people to flee from Aza is insane. That is no solution because Egypt has nothing to gain and lots to lose by allowing that. I watched some of Chaims videos which explained that the Egyptians are not moderates at all. Even Sadat was a crooked bastard when dealing with Israel. It is obvious that Egypt enjoys making Israel suffer with the so called palistinians.

I believe the solution is to eradicate those involved in rocket launches and ranking hamas officers. Once the smoke clears there will be a vacuum of power which will either be filled by more radicals or maybe by some moderates. It is not sane to allow Israels land to be used against it by these terrorists. If they don't want to live next to Israel they should be removed.

muman, you've got everything upside down.

You should have started your thinking process with your last sentence instead: "If they don't want to live next to Israel they should be removed."

How many more decades of wars, intifadas, suicide bombings, rockets do you want to swallow to understand that they first didn't want to live next you, and now they don't want to live with you on the same planet?

[q_q_]

Zvulun Ben Moshe, your post was brilliant(starting the thread), I may look out more for your posts in future..

You could have requested intelligent replies at the end, and just ignored anything silly!

or pointed people to that request!

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

Yes I hear what you are saying and to me it seemed that the goal was to remove Hamas and its weapons from the Aza territory. Over the last week it appeared that the goals were being met, targeting of ranking Hamas officers, targeted bombings of weapons depots and training headquarters. I have been very impressed with the effectiveness of hitting these targets with minimal 'collateral damage'.

You realize that even thinking that Egypt would allow people to flee from Aza is insane. That is no solution because Egypt has nothing to gain and lots to lose by allowing that. I watched some of Chaims videos which explained that the Egyptians are not moderates at all. Even Sadat was a crooked bastard when dealing with Israel. It is obvious that Egypt enjoys making Israel suffer with the so called palistinians.

I believe the solution is to eradicate those involved in rocket launches and ranking hamas officers. Once the smoke clears there will be a vacuum of power which will either be filled by more radicals or maybe by some moderates. It is not sane to allow Israels land to be used against it by these terrorists. If they don't want to live next to Israel they should be removed.

muman, you confused JTF with UJA. People don't support Israel's action blindly here, and this is not a fan club of Israel's military technologies.

This is a Kahanist organization, which by default means: NO ARABS IN ERETZ ISRAEL "." (BIG FAT PERIOD)

If you are asking why, then, my friend, you should go back and listen to at least one video of Rabbi Kahane (z'tl") or Chaim on this subject.

And now back to the main question: "even thinking that Egypt would allow people to flee from Aza is insane?"

It looks like you either didnt read my post or just missing the point, but I'll explain again:

1) You release Arabs from Gaza with "good intentions": to keep them away from harm. Just for the time of the operation, which will be obviously extended to eternity later. This way you did your job.

2) Now, if Egypt doesnt accept them or kills them - fine!!! - WHY DO YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT? Who are you to them? Father? Brother? Why do you care.

3) Moreover, the responsibility over their lives will be now lying on their actual brothers - Egyptian Arabs.

Why Jews have to worry about everyone and everything? Especially if that someone uses every opportunity to destroy the Jews, like Egypt does.

[muman613]

I think you don't understand what I am saying here.

I dont support the Israel government as it is. It is very corrupt and it is not very kind to the religious and the Jews who inhabit the land. But I do support any action which will protect the Jews in Sderot and other cities which are threatened with rockets. I initially did believe that the goals would be met.

My point is that no matter what was happening, Egypt would not allow the gazans into Egypt, even for humanitarian purposes. You are suggesting that Israel should not have consulted with Egypt and allowed THEM to kill them.

I am relatively new but I believe I understand the Kahanist idea. But initially I was relating my secular moderate Israeli friends view of the situation is. Currently we know that Israels government is not working for the goal of a Jewish state.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It really is a win-win for Israel's Bolshevik rulers if Israel loses this war. Here is why:

1--Center-right Israeli voters will say "at least they tried".
2--Leftist kapo Israeli voters will be glad to see Israel's forces humiliated and a great show of Arab force.
3--A defeated public will be more depressed and desperate and will be more easily sold on more "land for peace", prisoner releases, and the "right of return".

[q_q_]

I can see how israel might look at the war so far as a success..

they are talking about a "ceasefire", and a weakened Hamas.. And that really puts the pressure from the world, onto the "palestinians"..

Right now Israel is not being asked to dismantle settlements or give up land.

It's a vey silly measure of success, in that if offers no solution, but I think that's the measure israel is using.

[Muck DeFuslims]

If you're using the standard of removing every koranimal from Gaza as a means of determining if Israel wins this 'war'--then there's no way Israel could win at this time. The political climate just makes it impossible.

Sure, if Kahanists are in power then the transfer of all Arabs becomes a possibility. But that's not the reality we live in.

Given the prevailing political climate, this 'war' might wind up having a pretty decent outcome.

It's extremely unlikely that Hamas will be deposed as the ruling power in Gaza.
Contrary to popular belief, this is a positive outcome for Israel. Remember, if Hamas is removed from power, then it's Fatah that steps into the vacuum. And that means more pressure to negotiate and make concessions. An implacably belligerent Hamas, that refuses to even recognize Israel, is the greatest impediment to suicidal Israeli concessions.

So a weakened Hamas, but one that remains in power, is actually a win for Israel.

The downside of this 'war' is that when it's over there will likely be tremendous pressure on Israel to open the crossings. This could result in more terror attacks within Israel--and Hamas will rejuvenate itself rather quickly.

But let's be realistic, at this point in time the removal of the koranimals and annexation of Gaza, Judea and Samaria simply isn't in the cards.

So although a temporarily weakened Hamas and a reduction of rocket fire into Israel certainly isn't an overwhelming victory, it is helpful in a strategic sense and will make life easier for Jews in southern Israel.

[q_q_]

Hamas may not get weakened... Israel's bombing may make them more militant, and wanting Hamas. That will drive the arabs mad and they'll be killing each other like crazy.

I would like to see a death toll for 2005-2008 (the period after the israeli withdrawal, and before Israel started the bombing response.

A problem though is that you are -teaching- them to hide their true intentions and go for Fatah. It makes little difference to unilateral withdrawals that israel is making though.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't think Gazans will go for Fatah. They certainly did not in the free election held in June of 2007. The reason is obvious: Fatah are all the old, lazy, retired terrorists whose heyday was in the '70s, '80s, and early '90s, and Hamas are all the young guys who are actually doing the jihad against the Yahuds. Fatah has a reputation for great corruption (i.e. taxing the Muslim Nazi people to death and giving them absolutely nothing in return, and siphoning up all their United Nazis "aid") and for being content to sit back while the Hamas guys murder all the Jews.

Fatah certainly wants the jihad against the Jews to continue, but they're not willing to blow themselves up or run in front of Israeli tanks with an RPG anymore, at this stage of their lives and careers--not to mention the fact that they are pretending to be "peace partners" with Israel right now. This does not go well with the idiotic Gazan Muslims, who get a big kick out of the fact that Hamas openly tells the whole world they want to destroy all non-Muslims. They don't really seem to have too good a grasp of taqiyyah. Remember when the Egyptian Muslim Nazis (which is what all Gazans are) slew Anwar Sadat because he pretended to support a peace with Israel, and tried to kill Hosni Mubarak for the same reason?

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

I don't think Gazans will go for Fatah. They certainly did not in the free election held in June of 2007. The reason is obvious: Fatah are all the old, lazy, retired terrorists whose heyday was in the '70s, '80s, and early '90s, and Hamas are all the young guys who are actually doing the jihad against the Yahuds. Fatah has a reputation for great corruption (i.e. taxing the Muslim Nazi people to death and giving them absolutely nothing in return, and siphoning up all their United Nazis "aid") and for being content to sit back while the Hamas guys murder all the Jews.

Fatah certainly wants the jihad against the Jews to continue, but they're not willing to blow themselves up or run in front of Israeli tanks with an RPG anymore, at this stage of their lives and careers--not to mention the fact that they are pretending to be "peace partners" with Israel right now. This does not go well with the idiotic Gazan Muslims, who get a big kick out of the fact that Hamas openly tells the whole world they want to destroy all non-Muslims. They don't really seem to have too good a grasp of taqiyyah. Remember when the Egyptian Muslim Nazis (which is what all Gazans are) slew Anwar Sadat because he pretended to support a peace with Israel, and tried to kill Hosni Mubarak for the same reason?

True, they wont go for Fatah, IF they have a choice. Don't look at Egypt. It is a huge country - 82 million people, whom it is very hard to control. Gaza is a joke in comparison to it.

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

I think you don't understand what I am saying here.

I dont support the Israel government as it is. It is very corrupt and it is not very kind to the religious and the Jews who inhabit the land. But I do support any action which will protect the Jews in Sderot and other cities which are threatened with rockets. I initially did believe that the goals would be met.

My point is that no matter what was happening, Egypt would not allow the gazans into Egypt, even for humanitarian purposes. You are suggesting that Israel should not have consulted with Egypt and allowed THEM to kill them.

I am relatively new but I believe I understand the Kahanist idea. But initially I was relating my secular moderate Israeli friends view of the situation is. Currently we know that Israels government is not working for the goal of a Jewish state.

You have to look a little bit deeper.

Other than getting rid of the enemy population in Gaza, Israel, if it facilitated the withdrawal of "civilians" to Egypt would have:

1) Gained a "good name" in the world by caring about the so called civilians
2) If Egypt did something to those Arabs, this time they would be the bad guys, not Israel.
3) Plus everyone would see how these "brothers" treat each other.

My point is - after they are gone, they are not our problem, and Israel is no longer in the news headlines, but Egypt.

You have to understand, besides a great anti-semitism in the world, majority of critics of Israel dont like the fact that Israel's name comes up in the news too much. So they think, why cant they (the Jews) just solve this problem with (ATTENTION) WHATEVER MEANS. Finish the job ones, so that no one would remembers of it a few years later.
Every nation has used unpopular steps to survive. Why Israel should be any different. Especially if it works?

What Israel had done. It extended the problem for decades, and the wound constantly bleeds.