Winston Churchill

[RationalThought110]

What is the JTF view of him? 

[Fruit of thy loins]

Post that question here: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php?topic=2725.0

I thought he was a blustering old fool. 

[MarZutra]

Good for England but bad for Israel....

[Maccabi]

not sure if he was an anti-semite.

I have read some of his quotes though and found them pretty witty.

[Scriabin]

I thought he was a blustering old fool. 

Now how do you feel about him?

[mord]

Not an anti semite ,read what that guy Martin Gilbert wrote about him

[sat_chit_anand]

Not overly keen on Winston Churchill.

In my dreams, Britain would have gone on after defeating Nazi Germany to defeat the Soviet Union, or that Oswald Mosley of the 'British Union of Fascists' would have been Prime Minister and would have prevented the worst of the atrocites of last century.

All of the above are tall orders however.

One can never know, but Churchill was a Tory and a British Imperialist. I honestly believe that Britain under fascism would have been kinder to the subjects of the British Empire. We would have resisted the American financiers as well.

Of course, this is all very difficult, because fascism became anti-Semitic. Fascism failed because it was anti-Semitic and forged the wrong political alliances.

Your thoughts FOTL?

[Fruit of thy loins]

Not overly keen on Winston Churchill.

In my dreams, Britain would have gone on after defeating Nazi Germany to defeat the Soviet Union, or that Oswald Mosley of the 'British Union of Fascists' would have been Prime Minister and would have prevented the worst of the atrocites of last century.

All of the above are tall orders however.

One can never know, but Churchill was a Tory and a British Imperialist. I honestly believe that Britain under fascism would have been kinder to the subjects of the British Empire. We would have resisted the American financiers as well.

Of course, this is all very difficult, because fascism became anti-Semitic. Fascism failed because it was anti-Semitic and forged the wrong political alliances.

Your thoughts FOTL?

I have always admired the element of paternalism inherent in fascism.  Any political philosophy which is not otherwise evil, but that understands the mindset of young men such as us, and takes us in hand without being class conscious or judgemental, and disciplines us and turns us into men, is righteous - truly righteous.  A system that lets young men meander about in the wilderness, and lets people squander their lives because they didn't know what to do with their lives, is a subliminated system of neglect.  Maybe the most enviable political system is that which knows best how to dispose of its people, to make people happy if not equal.

[mord]

Not all fascists were anti semite franco was'nt and mussolini was reluctant,however most Italians even the ones who accepted Fascism would'nt help the Germans round up Jews as a matter of fact many Italian Fascists went out of their way to save Jews

[MarZutra]

That is true Mord.  Mosley was an anti-Semite and differed little in beliefs from Adolf Hitler.  He'd of been a very negative influence on Britain in my opinion.  He was an extreme Leftist and eventually, would have been no different than Stalin.  Fascism, like Nazism, nearly always starts off as a "Nationalistic" movement but than, like Communism, use their skills of propaganda and agitation towards expansionism.  Churchill's mother was Jewish but from the "enlightened" "Jewish" community of New York.  Churchill was an Imperialist, no question, and his White Papers prove that he wanted a "Jewish" Palestine under Britain protectorate.  He was no real friend of the Jews.  He was a hardened Anti-Communist, for which I like him.  He was a British Elitist that should have been given the opportunity to stamp out Communist Russia in 1945 with aid of America...but sadly, the elitists in America and Europe saw fit to "contain" Communism and not defeat it. 

I'd say Churchill was to the British what Barry Goldwater was to America.  Sadly, Americas Liberal Establishment ruined Goldwater.  He'd of been America's greatest President...no question..

[sat_chit_anand]

Mosley's economic ideas seem very left-wing to us today and the BUF were probably anti-democratic, but I just wonder if he would have been better than Churchill sometimes, either on the national or geo-political scale.

I also wonder if the elitists wanted to contain communism so as to prevent those countries which had fallen prey to it from developing competitive economies.

[MarZutra]

Mosley's economic ideas seem very left-wing to us today and the BUF were probably anti-democratic, but I just wonder if he would have been better than Churchill sometimes, either on the national or geo-political scale.

I also wonder if the elitists wanted to contain communism so as to prevent those countries which had fallen prey to it from developing competitive economies.

You know, some books that are very good on this topic are by Antony Sutton.  You will enjoy them.  My father comes from Camdentown and he remembers Mosley and his Fascists parading through his town beating up Jews and doing exactly the same thing the Nazi Storm Troopers did during krystalnaught.  He was an antisemite and his ideology was ultra left wing.  In fact many of the same policies he wanted were actually tried by the Labor party directly after the second world war, nationalizing industry making Britain not only uneconomical but driving Britain down the toilet.  Mosley, would have been another Hitler or Stalin in the end.  The only reason any of these extreme Leftists ever showed any positive economic growth was due to the massive foreign aid, grants, loans etc. that were given to them by, namely, America.  "Wall Street and the Rise of Hilter" or "Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution" - A. Sutton or "Trading with the Enemy"..  http://www.somebodyhelpme.info/ebooks/ebooks.html

Mosley would have followed the steps of all Leftist dictators into a military society with massive central governments, no freedoms of speech...  It would be like living in today's Cuba or some Islamic/Turd World Dictatorship....living off the accomplishments and fortunes of yesteryear..

I'd like to hear Mussahs view on this topic as well Davkach's....

[sat_chit_anand]

I was born in Camden myself. I do not doubt that Mosley and his men did what you describe, but it would have been hyped, at the time, as a response to communist agitation, of which there was quite a lot. Perhaps Jewish resistance took the form of communism because no-one else would stick up for the Jews? I often think that is perhaps why there have been so many Jewish leftists.

I really like to tread carefully on this subject, because of the tragic events which unfolded and the slurs and slanders which were made about the Jewish people, which enabled them to happen.

I suppose that to you, the better form of economic nationalism is to tax imports and so forth but more or less allow the market, with some regulation, to do what it wants to do.

Was that a good guess?

I think that it depends upon the situation. Ionnis Metaxas of Greece was a fascist and he did a lot of good for the Greek people, and hardly broke so much as a fingernail in the process, but then poor Greece had almost no infrastructure when Metaxas came to power.

This is the BNP approach: http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/worker_ownership.html

Fruit, your opinions are sound.

[MarZutra]

You are correct.  I am for Free Enterprise Capitalism.  Trade Tariffs bolstering "Made in England" over made in China. The only reason why the West is falling apart is because we cannot compete with any ultra-Leftist dictatorship that has no human rights, no workers rights, wage slavery and also many of the like technologies on top.  The massive foreign aid and the financial crippling of the numerous Socialist programs.  The Tariffs would make "Made in China" less "affordable" and make "Made in England" more competitive.   This is the entire sham of "Free Trade".  It is piracy not "Free Trade" because all things are not equal.  $40.00/hr in America to $.04/hr in India...

The main reason why Jews turned to Communism in the days of "enlightenment" was a dual pressure by the outside and the inside.  The Jews suffered at the hands of the Christians for so many years; pogroms, inquisitions, crusades, blood libels etc. solely because they wished not to embrace Christianity and keep their culture and faith of their ancestors. Good reading on this would be about the history of the Ghetto system.  The internal pressure was from Abraham Geiger and the like Bundist ilk that were anti-Jew Jews who invented the "Progressive" Reform "Judaism"..... 

The Jews were tired of getting shafted on whichever way they turned.  They were viewed as "outsider" wherever they lived so many preferred no religion whatsoever would be better than pogrom.  This is why many took the path of no faith, one being Rosa Luxemburg, who was murdered Baruch Hashem, Lenin, Trotsky and Marx... (Again funded by Britain, Germany and America...)

I hope that helps.  Mosley was both an anti-Semite and an anti-Communist....even though there is little difference between Fascism and Communism...both are ultra-leftist ideologies...which should have logically made the Communist Kikes good friends of Mosley but since Mosley was both an anti-Communist/Semite...  little luck was afforded, once again, to the Jew...

[MassuhDGoodName]

Churchill smoked cigars 24hrs. a day, drank brandy all day long.

Suffered recurrent depressive episodes, was brilliant, and was a stunning orator.

After World War II, he invented Winston King Size Filter Cigarettes; personally penning the motto "Winston tastes Good!  Like a Cigarette should!"

[MarZutra]

Prof. Eugene Narrett on his site Www.IsraelEndTimes.Com has very good articles about Churchill, the British Government and their attitudes and deeds towards the Jews and the "Jewish" State.  Enjoy...