Is It Wrong To Wish Bad Things On Those We Despise?

[SavetheWest]

Start making a list of the people you curse and lets see if you are right. But just for a challenge, make a list of people you bless, and see if your blessings are fufilled. I think this would be a great test on your connection with the source of all blessing.

You are right Muman.  Well, I would start with saying every member of JTF, minus the trolls, I would pray have long, happy and healthy lives, being close to G-d.  I really mean that so much...people here are nothing short of terrific people and any disagreement I've had with the non trolls on the forum is just an exchange of ideas...not true disagreements of spirit. I have learned so much from Chaim, you and every JTFer has taught me so much about G-d.

[SavetheWest]

Michael Moore, Tom Leykis, Glenn Greenwald, Bill Moyers, Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Bill Maher are on my list of people who deserve to be struck down by G-d.  Of course I wish them all kinds of things but I would never do anything to make that happen.  

G-d answered my curses on talk show Mike Webb a few years ago and he was killed with an axe in his sleep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Webb_(radio_announcer)

Mike Webb (radio announcer)
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 (Mike Webb (September 4, 1955–April 14, 2007) was a American radio personality. Originally a radio news reporter, he later became a liberal talk show host and activist. Webb was murdered in 2007.

Early life and career in San Francisco
Webb was born and raised in San Francisco, California. He had an early interest in radio. As a teenager, he was a street reporter broadcasting observations of civil rights, anti-Vietnam war protests, and youth issues for San Francisco radio stations KMPX, KQED and KCBS. KMPX was the nation's first progressive rock station, started by Top 40 disc jockey Tom Donahue, and practiced advocacy journalism.

One of Webb's most notable on-air experiences was reporting the murders of San Francisco City Supervisor Harvey Milk and Mayor George Moscone by ex-City Supervisor Dan White. Working at KGO, just blocks away from the City Hall tragedy, Webb climbed to the station's rooftop, giving live reports of a city in great shock and grief. Later, when a jury found White guilty of voluntary manslaughter rather than first-degree murder, outraged citizens took over City Hall, bashed in the doors, overturned police cars and started fires in what came to be known as the White Night Riots. Reporters from every major television network joined Webb on the same rooftop reporting all the activity.

Webb went on to other Bay Area radio stations, working as as an on-air personality for KIOI, KFRC and KSFX.

 Career in Seattle
In the 1980s, Webb moved to Seattle and hosted shows at KPLZ, KEZX, and KZOK. He served intermittent terms as program director of KVI between 1984 & 1991, and KIXI until 1994.

Webb was best known for his work at KIRO, where he started in 1996. Webb was also an activist, lobbying for hate crimes legislation and Senator Ted Kennedy's Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA). In the late 1990s, Webb worked for John McMullen on his Internet radio project, GayBC Radio Network. On GayBC, Webb hosted a talk show, but also handled live broadcasts of breaking news events such as gay pride events and the protest activity surrounding the World Trade Organization's 1999 Ministerial Conference in Seattle.

Outside of his radio show, Webb produced audio and did voiceover work on documentaries, industrial videos, Internet and commercial work at his studio.

Webb remembered his interviews with attorney Gerry Spence, documentary filmmaker Michael Moore, Norman Solomon, United Nations Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter, and Serving in Silence author Grethe Cammermeyer as among his favorites.

Webb was fired from KIRO in December 2005 after he was charged with making a fraudulent insurance claim after an automobile accident the previous June, when his Lexus was struck by an uninsured driver. He was found guilty in February 2007, fined, and sentenced to perform community service.


[edit] Murder
Without explanation, Webb ceased producing his webcasted talk show, with the last show being recorded on April 13, 2007. Subsequently, he was reported missing by his sister, who stated she hadn't talked to him since April 13. Webb's sister told Seattle's KOMO 4 News that she thought he might be in danger.

On June 28, 2007, the Seattle Police Department reported that a decomposed body had been found at Webb's Queen Anne home. Discovered by the property manager, the body was located in a crawl space underneath a blue plastic tarp and several storage boxes.

Following identification on June 29, the body was confirmed to be that of Mike Webb. The King County coroner further determined Webb's death to be a homicide due to stabbing ("multiple sharp force trauma"). On July 19, 2007, it was announced that Scott White was arrested for the murder. According to Seattle police, White allegedly killed Webb with an axe as he slept.

There is a documentary called Michael Moore hates America by Mike Wilson.

I've seen most of it...pretty good stuff.

[SavetheWest]

Angelina Jolie.

I can't believe I didn't see that.  Yes, especially after that Daniel Pearl movie and trying to teach lessons that you should forgive Pakistani Nazi terrorists after they cut your head off like a bunch of animals that they are. 

[GoIsraelGo!]

I struggle with this daily.  But I cannot help having deep hatred for those that I feel are doing this country, or the rest of the world, great harm.  When I see a pig like Keith Olbermann, for example, I honestly wish he would have a heart attack on the air of his useless show.  It's a long list of people I loathe.  Is this just natural or am I wrong for thinking this way?

You are normal and have morals. Good people with common sense see evil and it drives us crazy to the point of " we want them dead. "
This feeling is ok because G-d wants us to be on his side. We cannot be on G-d's side if we turn away from evil without having at least attempted to destroy it. Wanting evil people dead is righteous. The Nazi's were evil and were destroyed to save the World. Now the Moslems are evil and need to eliminated in order to save the World again. You have every right to wish death on our enemies. G-d expects this of you.


                                                                    Shalom - Dox

[RanterMaximus]

I struggle with this daily.  But I cannot help having deep hatred for those that I feel are doing this country, or the rest of the world, great harm.  When I see a pig like Keith Olbermann, for example, I honestly wish he would have a heart attack on the air of his useless show.  It's a long list of people I loathe.  Is this just natural or am I wrong for thinking this way?

You are normal and have morals. Good people with common sense see evil and it drives us crazy to the point of " we want them dead. "
This feeling is ok because G-d wants us to be on his side. We cannot be on G-d's side if we turn away from evil without having at least attempted to destroy it. Wanting evil people dead is righteous. The Nazi's were evil and were destroyed to save the World. Now the Moslems are evil and need to eliminated in order to save the World again. You have every right to wish death on our enemies. G-d expects this of you.


Thanks.  I often feel like I'm all alone in this world on my hate and disgust of so many who are doing this world wrong. 

                                                                    Shalom - Dox

[Dr. Dan]

For truely evil people, it's not wrong...that is if you can start with terrorists and murderers of righteous people...next say bad things about those who pervert justice and mercy and encourage evil behavior.

[Ithaca-37]

One of the most liberating aspects of my conversion to evangelical Christianity was throwing these kinds of mind-benders onto the lap of Scripture.  And the answer in this case is an undeniable Yes:  God permits cursing evildoers.  Be cautious, but it's done by great characters in the Scriptures.

If you want an example, there's a Psalm that's featured in a scene in the epic movie Patton.  (Sorry, I'm a classic movie buff.)  Patton is praying in the aftermath of being humiliated into apologizing for slapping a cowardly soldier.  We hear George C. Scott's voice read the Psalm, with such memorable lines as (paraphrasing), "May those who seek to destroy my soul go into the low parts of the Earth;  may they be a portion for foxes;  may they fall by the sword ....."

Biblical scholars tell us that the Psalms were written mostly by the great Israelite kings Solomon and David.

37

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I agree with Chaim Ben Pesach. We should all be praying three times a day for the Amalek of this world to get their due from cancer, Huntington's Disease, ALS, or Fournier's Gangrene. I'm just not always that disciplined in my prayer life, to my discredit.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

I don't know whether it is right or wrong to wish that bad things should happen to bad people.  I think it's okay to be happy when bad things do happen to bad people.  But to wish for bad things to happen to a person?  What do you mean wish?  There is no religious implication of a wish.  So to me, wishing for things is a waste of time.  Do you mean should we pray for bad things to happen to bad people?  I think we should pray for good things to happen to good people and for bad things to happen to bad people.  But that's not the same as wishing, which is meaningless.

[SavetheWest]

I don't know whether it is right or wrong to wish that bad things should happen to bad people.  I think it's okay to be happy when bad things do happen to bad people.  But to wish for bad things to happen to a person?  What do you mean wish?  There is no religious implication of a wish.  So to me, wishing for things is a waste of time.  Do you mean should we pray for bad things to happen to bad people?  I think we should pray for good things to happen to good people and for bad things to happen to bad people.  But that's not the same as wishing, which is meaningless.

I added that word as a disclaimer.  I don't want any enemies getting the impression I'm actually threatening anyone.
In the US there is free speech but you can go to jail if they say you are inciting violence. 

[muman613]

I agree with Chaim Ben Pesach. We should all be praying three times a day for the Amalek of this world to get their due from cancer, Huntington's Disease, ALS, or Fournier's Gangrene. I'm just not always that disciplined in my prayer life, to my discredit.

But sometimes people pray for bad things on people who are not Amalek and the question was "Is it wrong to wish bad things on those we despise?". I think that is what Zachor was asking about.

What is more important than cursing Amalek is perfecting ourselves in emunah and learning Torah. By doing this we will be able to defeat Amalek. Just read your Torah and learn that when Moshe raised his hands the Jews strengthened, when he lowered them the Jews weakened. Our prayers should consist first of Praises, then of Thanksgiving, then make requests. Jews don't make requests before we are done with the praises and the thanksgiving. The Amidah is the primary prayer in the service where we make requests.

http://www.yutorah.org/lectures/lecture.cfm/722277/Rabbi_Jonathan_Feldman/The_Structure_of_Jewish_Prayer

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/prayer/Prayer_11_-_Acknowledging_Good.asp

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Of course I pray that good people be blessed. I love lifting up the prayer requests of Christian and Jewish brothers and sisters. But unfortunately there are more evil people in this world than righteous. Both Testaments of the Bible teach the principle of the wicked deserving death (and in the New Testament, even some Christians who have committed severe sins are shown being struck down by G-d, to the complete approval of the church). He who is kind to the cruel, is cruel to the kind, and vice versa. We must entreaty G-d to take the evil from us and bolster the righteous in their trials and chastenings.

[IsraelForever]

Why would it be wrong to wish death on evil people? 

[Spiraling Leopard]

I think it is better to pray good for the good than bad for the bad since, in a prayer, the thing you pray for goes through your body as well as a strong thought form. Whatever you think will shape your being.

It is a much more productive thing to built something good, than (try to) destroy something bad.

In most propability during the built of something good you will be attacked and then legitimately can use hate and anger to retaliate and subdue bad.

Build something good strong and big and retaliate when necessary.

[SavetheWest]

SavetheWest, you have provided a powerful testimony to the indisputable fact that G-d does hear the cries of his children and answers prayers. It is completely right for us to pray for the death and destruction of the wicked, and all of us should do that a lot more.

Another one bites the dust!

Looks like Tom Leykis lost his radio show and is jobless as of Feb. 20th.  That's good enough for me and hopefully he has time to reflect and change his ways towards G-d.

Below is the link where I prayed for bad things to happen to him.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,31608.15.html

[SavetheWest]

SavetheWest, you have provided a powerful testimony to the indisputable fact that G-d does hear the cries of his children and answers prayers. It is completely right for us to pray for the death and destruction of the wicked, and all of us should do that a lot more.

Another one bites the dust!

Looks like Tom Leykis lost his radio show and is jobless as of Feb. 20th.  That's good enough for me and hopefully he has time to reflect and change his ways towards G-d.

Below is the link where I prayed for bad things to happen to him.

http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,31608.15.html

I actually don't really think it was necessarily my prayers;, it was his mockery of religious people and asking G-d to strike him down on the radio to prove he did not exist, that probably did him in. I'm sure there were much more righteous people than me praying for his understanding of G-d or at least him to lose his platform to misdirect so many people.