We are OBLIGATED to curse self-hating Jewish traitors

[muman613]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2895/jewish/24000-Plus-One.htm

"
The Thirteenth Year

But there was one disciple of Rabbi Akiva who learned to overcome the pitfalls of uncompromising love and uncompromising truth, as exemplified by the following incident in the life of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai:

The Talmud relates that when the Roman rulers of the Holy Land placed a price on the heads of Rabbi Shimon and his son Rabbi Elazar, they hid in a cave for twelve years. During this time, they spent every minute of their day studying Torah. When they emerged from the cave, they were shocked to discover people plowing and sowing: how could people set aside the eternal life that is Torah and occupy their days with the transitory life of the material? So intense was their wrath at such folly that whatever met with their burning glance went up in flames. Proclaimed a voice from heaven: "Have you come out to destroy My world? Return to your cave!" Rabbi Shimon's thirteenth year of study, while increasing his knowledge and appreciation of the truth of Torah, also taught him the value of endeavors other than his own. Now, wherever he went, his look would heal rather than destroy.

The 4,000-year history of Jewish learning has known many great and diligent students of Torah; yet none epitomized the absolute devotion to the pursuit of the divine truth to the extent exemplified by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. Throughout the writings of our sages, his example is cited as the ultimate case of torato um'nato, "one whose study of Torah is his sole vocation."

Certainly, then, Rabbi Shimon's commitment to truth was no less absolute than that of Rabbi Akiva's other disciples. Yet his truth was true enough to love. In his thirteenth year in the cave, he attained a dimension of the divine truth that tolerates, indeed embraces, the many and diverse avenues of connection to G-d which the Creator has provided to a humanity whose minds, characters and temperaments are as diverse as their number. In his thirteenth year in the cave, Rabbi Shimon attained a level of truth in which he could utterly devote himself to the eternal life that is Torah, and advocate such devotion for everyone else, and at the same time appreciate and respect the path of those who serve G-d via the temporal life of material endeavors.

So the very same day that celebrates the end of the plague amongst Rabbi Akiva's disciples also celebrates the passing of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. The Chassidic masters explain that the passing of a righteous person marks the point at which "all his deeds, teachings and works" attain the pinnacle of fulfillment and realization and the point of their most powerful influence upon our lives. And the deeds, teaching and works of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai are the ultimate rectification of Rabbi Akiva's disciples' tragic failure to achieve the proper synthesis of love and truth that would make their love true and their truth loving.
"


I am not saying that what Chaim is doing is wrong. But it is not right that non-Jews learn to use hebrew curses like this. This has been discussed countless times. Needless to say that the truly evil should be cursed. But everyone should curse in their native tongue.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

There has been much discussion that Hebrew curses are intended to be used by Jews, not non-Jews. When non-Jews use them it removes the effectiveness of the curses. The Jewish people were not created in the world to curse it, but to bless it.

Muman, that's your opinion, not JTF's. Please don't distort what Chaim's position is. His OP in this thread makes it clear. It's fine that you disagree with him, but please don't put words in his mouth to try to validate your stance.

[SerbChicago]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2895/jewish/24000-Plus-One.htm

"
The Thirteenth Year

But there was one disciple of Rabbi Akiva who learned to overcome the pitfalls of uncompromising love and uncompromising truth, as exemplified by the following incident in the life of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai:

The Talmud relates that when the Roman rulers of the Holy Land placed a price on the heads of Rabbi Shimon and his son Rabbi Elazar, they hid in a cave for twelve years. During this time, they spent every minute of their day studying Torah. When they emerged from the cave, they were shocked to discover people plowing and sowing: how could people set aside the eternal life that is Torah and occupy their days with the transitory life of the material? So intense was their wrath at such folly that whatever met with their burning glance went up in flames. Proclaimed a voice from heaven: "Have you come out to destroy My world? Return to your cave!" Rabbi Shimon's thirteenth year of study, while increasing his knowledge and appreciation of the truth of Torah, also taught him the value of endeavors other than his own. Now, wherever he went, his look would heal rather than destroy.

The 4,000-year history of Jewish learning has known many great and diligent students of Torah; yet none epitomized the absolute devotion to the pursuit of the divine truth to the extent exemplified by Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. Throughout the writings of our sages, his example is cited as the ultimate case of torato um'nato, "one whose study of Torah is his sole vocation."

Certainly, then, Rabbi Shimon's commitment to truth was no less absolute than that of Rabbi Akiva's other disciples. Yet his truth was true enough to love. In his thirteenth year in the cave, he attained a dimension of the divine truth that tolerates, indeed embraces, the many and diverse avenues of connection to G-d which the Creator has provided to a humanity whose minds, characters and temperaments are as diverse as their number. In his thirteenth year in the cave, Rabbi Shimon attained a level of truth in which he could utterly devote himself to the eternal life that is Torah, and advocate such devotion for everyone else, and at the same time appreciate and respect the path of those who serve G-d via the temporal life of material endeavors.

So the very same day that celebrates the end of the plague amongst Rabbi Akiva's disciples also celebrates the passing of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai. The Chassidic masters explain that the passing of a righteous person marks the point at which "all his deeds, teachings and works" attain the pinnacle of fulfillment and realization and the point of their most powerful influence upon our lives. And the deeds, teaching and works of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai are the ultimate rectification of Rabbi Akiva's disciples' tragic failure to achieve the proper synthesis of love and truth that would make their love true and their truth loving.
"


I am not saying that what Chaim is doing is wrong. But it is not right that non-Jews learn to use hebrew curses like this. This has been discussed countless times. Needless to say that the truly evil should be cursed. But everyone should curse in their native tongue.

It's just that i like you guys,that's why...

[muman613]

<snip>
It's just that i like you guys,that's why...

Dont let me dissuade you... JTF is an excellent group of people. I am in the minority in this opinion. We are all looking for the truth and the redemption of the Jewish people and the coming of Moshiach.

Sometimes we argue, but its all for the good...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

SerbChicago, Muman disapproves of Gentiles cursing evil Jews, and believes very few people should be cursed in general. That's his opinion. There's nothing wrong with you wanting to curse the evil so-called Jews who destroyed Serbia.

[SerbChicago]

SerbChicago, Muman disapproves of Gentiles cursing evil Jews, and believes very few people should be cursed in general. That's his opinion. There's nothing wrong with you wanting to curse the evil so-called Jews who destroyed Serbia.

O it's not just them it's my people too.I got the list but it's too long...

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Give me some examples of self-hating Serb traitors. I don't know much about Serbia so it's all new to me.

[SerbChicago]

Give me some examples of self-hating Serb traitors. I don't know much about Serbia so it's all new to me.

President Boris Tadic,Premier of Republic of Serbs Milorad Dodik and so on...

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

                                                                                                                                                                                               בס''ד

a. I started this thread because several members have been asserting that it is forbidden to curse fellow Jews.

My intention is not to insult those who have made these comments. I know that there are even rabbis who have been preaching this type of "feel good" message: "rabbis" from the Yesha Council were shouting at the soldiers and police who came to expel Jews from Gush Katif "חייל, אני אוהב אותך! שוטר, אני אוהב אותך!" ("Soldier, I love you! Policeman, I love you!"). These "rabbis" hugged and kissed the expelling soldiers and police and danced with them. These "rabbis" publicly blessed the expelling soldiers and police.

Let me state quite bluntly that the soldiers and police who came to remove Jews from their homeland in order to hand it over to the Amalekite Arabs should be cursed, not blessed. And the Judenrat "rabbis" of the Yesha Council who deliberately undermined and destroyed the opposition to the expulsion are evil traitors. My views on this subject are shared by MANY Jews in the religious nationalist camp. I do NOT love Jewish soldiers or police or politicians that commit unforgivable crimes against the Jewish people. Not only do I not love them, I despise them. And I despise the cowardly prostitute "rabbis" of the Yesha Council who willingly collaborate with these traitors.

Moreover, to those who say that we cannot curse fellow Jews - you are not disagreeing with Chaim Ben Pesach, you are disagreeing with Chazal, who instituted a MANDATORY curse in the Shmone Esre that every Jew must recite three times every week day, four times every Shabbat, and five times every Yom Kippur.

Here is what Chazal commanded us to say about evil Jewish traitors:

וְלַמַּלְשִׁינִים אַל תְּהִי תִקְוָה. וְכָל הַמִּינִים כְּרֶגַע יאבֵדוּ. וְכָל אויְבֵי עַמְּךָ מְהֵרָה יִכָּרֵתוּ. וְהַזֵדִים מְהֵרָה תְעַקֵּר וּתְשַׁבֵּר וּתְמַגֵּר וּתְכַלֵּם וְתַשְׁפִּילֵם וְתַכְנִיעֵם בִּמְהֵרָה בְיָמֵינוּ:
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה ה'. שׁובֵר אויְבִים וּמַכְנִיעַ זֵדִים

Translation: "And for the informers may there be no hope, and all heretics in a moment should disappear and all enemies of Your people should be destroyed, and all intentional evildoers You should quickly uproot and smash and obliterate and shame and humiliate and defeat quickly in our days. Blessed are You Hashem, Who smashes enemies and defeats evildoers."

To me, that sounds like some heavy duty cursing! And this was not composed by Chaim Ben Pesach. It was composed by Chazal. If you reject this, you are rejecting Judaism.

b. Tzvi, you are opposed to cursing Jews? Wow, that surprises me. Because for years you have been a member of the splinter forums where they have compared me to Hitler, they have accused me of every possible crime, they have condemned what I did to save Soviet Jewry as terrorism, they have praised and defended informers and traitors like Irv Rubin ys"v, they have alllowed Nazis like Tina Greco to openly brag on their forum that she would post pictures of JTF members on StørmFrønt and other Nazi web sites, etc. etc. etc.

Did you ever utter a word of criticism over this vile behavior? On the contrary, when your friends on the splinter forum refused to ban the Nazi Tina Greco after she openly bragged that she posts JTF pictures on StørmFrønt, you wrote about it as if it's no big deal.

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Tina Greco posted my former address on StørmFrønt, while Mike Guzofsky and "Doom" refused to ban her or remove her posts for several days?

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Archie was slandering me on the splinter forum, and he eventually uploaded a video on youtube saying that he wanted Hitler to come back to life to murder Chaim Ben Pesach?

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Jesus Rivera cursed and slandered me and other JTF Jews on the splinter forum?

During all of these incidents, your silence has been deafening.

c. CF and DWI do indeed get carried away with many of their posts.

We are not allowed to curse Torah scholars, chas vechalilah (G-d forbid). We can criticize their rulings if other Torah scholars have also criticized them, but there is a difference between criticism and cursing.

What I wrote above against the Yesha Council "rabbis" (like the Shabak snitch Shlomo Aviner) is not something that can be written about HaRav Ovadia. HaRav Ovadia is a real Torah scholar who has written dozens of books on major Torah issues. The Yesha Council "rabbis" are not in his league. While HaRav Ovadia has made some terrible rulings that have led to the murder of many Jews, to curse him is forbidden because it can lead to the belittling of the Torah itself, G-d forbid. So with HaRav Ovadia, we can criticize and disagree, but we cannot curse. BTW, at least 90% of Israel's rabbis disagree with HaRav Ovadia's leftwing rulings on surrendering Jewish land.

The use of obscene language and sexual innuendo is also inappropriate.

Most of all, the inordinate amount of attention which CF and DWI devote to a "forum" that has only 4 or 5 members, and whose leader Guzofsky never even posts there because even he is bored with the "forum" - this waste of time and energy simply makes no sense. Why squander valuable time arguing with a handful of jealous, uneducated people?

However, CF is a righteous Gentile and DWI is a wonderful Jew. They are both genuinely loyal to the cause. I just wish they would spend their time more wisely. I appeal to them to think before they post: How does what I am posting make JTF look? How will this advance or harm the cause?

[SerbChicago]

                                                                                                                                                                                               בס''ד

a. I started this thread because several members have been asserting that it is forbidden to curse fellow Jews.

My intention is not to insult those who have made these comments. I know that there are even rabbis who have been preaching this type of "feel good" message: "rabbis" from the Yesha Council were shouting at the soldiers and police who came to expel Jews from Gush Katif "חייל, אני אוהב אותך! שוטר, אני אוהב אותך!" ("Soldier, I love you! Policeman, I love you!"). These "rabbis" hugged and kissed the expelling soldiers and police and danced with them. These "rabbis" publicly blessed the expelling soldiers and police.

Let me state quite bluntly that the soldiers and police who came to remove Jews from their homeland in order to hand it over to the Amalekite Arabs should be cursed, not blessed. And the Judenrat "rabbis" of the Yesha Council who deliberately undermined and destroyed the opposition to the expulsion are evil traitors. My views on this subject are shared by MANY Jews in the religious nationalist camp. I do NOT love Jewish soldiers or police or politicians that commit unforgivable crimes against the Jewish people. Not only do I not love them, I despise them. And I despise the cowardly prostitute "rabbis" of the Yesha Council who willingly collaborate with these traitors.

Moreover, to those who say that we cannot curse fellow Jews - you are not disagreeing with Chaim Ben Pesach, you are disagreeing with Chazal, who instituted a MANDATORY curse in the Shmone Esre that every Jew must recite three times every week day, four times every Shabbat, and five times every Yom Kippur.

Here is what Chazal commanded us to say about evil Jewish traitors:

וְלַמַּלְשִׁינִים אַל תְּהִי תִקְוָה. וְכָל הַמִּינִים כְּרֶגַע יאבֵדוּ. וְכָל אויְבֵי עַמְּךָ מְהֵרָה יִכָּרֵתוּ. וְהַזֵדִים מְהֵרָה תְעַקֵּר וּתְשַׁבֵּר וּתְמַגֵּר וּתְכַלֵּם וְתַשְׁפִּילֵם וְתַכְנִיעֵם בִּמְהֵרָה בְיָמֵינוּ:
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה ה'. שׁובֵר אויְבִים וּמַכְנִיעַ זֵדִים

Translation: "And for the informers may there be no hope, and all heretics in a moment should disappear and all enemies of Your people should be destroyed, and all intentional evildoers You should quickly uproot and smash and obliterate and shame and humiliate and defeat quickly in our days. Blessed are You Hashem, Who smashes enemies and defeats evildoers."

To me, that sounds like some heavy duty cursing! And this was not composed by Chaim Ben Pesach. It was composed by Chazal. If you reject this, you are rejecting Judaism.

b. Tzvi, you are opposed to cursing Jews? Wow, that surprises me. Because for years you have been a member of the splinter forums where they have compared me to Hitler, they have accused me of every possible crime, they have condemned what I did to save Soviet Jewry as terrorism, they have praised and defended informers and traitors like Irv Rubin ys"v, they have alllowed Nazis like Tina Greco to openly brag on their forum that she would post pictures of JTF members on StørmFrønt and other Nazi web sites, etc. etc. etc.

Did you ever utter a word of criticism over this vile behavior? On the contrary, when your friends on the splinter forum refused to ban the Nazi Tina Greco after she openly bragged that she posts JTF pictures on StørmFrønt, you wrote about it as if it's no big deal.

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Tina Greco posted my former address on StørmFrønt, while Mike Guzofsky and "Doom" refused to ban her or remove her posts for several days?

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Archie was slandering me on the splinter forum, and he eventually uploaded a video on youtube saying that he wanted Hitler to come back to life to murder Chaim Ben Pesach?

Where was your concern about goyim cursing Jews when Jesus Rivera cursed and slandered me and other JTF Jews on the splinter forum?

During all of these incidents, your silence has been deafening.

c. CF and DWI do indeed get carried away with many of their posts.

We are not allowed to curse Torah scholars, chas vechalilah (G-d forbid). We can criticize their rulings if other Torah scholars have also criticized them, but there is a difference between criticism and cursing.

What I wrote above against the Yesha Council "rabbis" (like the Shabak snitch Shlomo Aviner) is not something that can be written about HaRav Ovadia. HaRav Ovadia is a real Torah scholar who has written dozens of books on major Torah issues. The Yesha Council "rabbis" are not in his league. While HaRav Ovadia has made some terrible rulings that have led to the murder of many Jews, to curse him is forbidden because it can lead to the belittling of the Torah itself, G-d forbid. So with HaRav Ovadia, we can criticize and disagree, but we cannot curse. BTW, at least 90% of Israel's rabbis disagree with HaRav Ovadia's leftwing rulings on surrendering Jewish land.

The use of obscene language and sexual innuendo is also inappropriate.

Most of all, the inordinate amount of attention which CF and DWI devote to a "forum" that has only 4 or 5 members, and whose leader Guzofsky never even posts there because even he is bored with the "forum" - this waste of time and energy simply makes no sense. Why squander valuable time arguing with a handful of jealous, uneducated people?

However, CF is a righteous Gentile and DWI is a wonderful Jew. They are both genuinely loyal to the cause. I just wish they would spend their time more wisely. I appeal to them to think before they post: How does what I am posting make JTF look? How will this advance or harm the cause?

So isn't it time to do some "cleaning" on JTF?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Chaim, I have defended you in the past.
 Now I dont get involved becuase I did not and do not wish to be involved in the fight between you and Yekutiel. It goes both ways. I havn't even accused you of anything, nor have I held that you are responsible for the actions of cf and dwi.
  You calling them "rightious" in my opinion is a joke.
   If you wish to ban me, then go ahead, but I havn't done wrong to you, nor broken the rules.

[nessuno]

SerbChicago, it is rapidly coming up on ten years (March 24) since the Nazi Clinton Administration, along with the Nazi Atlantic Terror Organization, committed an unprecedented shoah against the heroic Yugoslav people. As we all know, some very evil self-hating JINOs, such as Madeline Albright and Richard Perle, had lead roles in this. The truth, of course, is that they really would have preferred to launch a blitzkrieg against their own brothers and sisters in Israel, but since public opinion wouldn't have stood for that at that point, they chose an easier target (the Serbs who saved thousands of them in World War II). Evil "Jews" like them, Nellie the Weasel (who supports giving half of Israel to the Arabs but hates the Serbs), Olmert, Barak, and Tzipi Hitler, and of course Barbra Streisand, are even lower than the Arabs, Tamils, and Albanians, and G-d will judge them much more harshly in the afterlife.

You gonna have to teach me some of the curse words in Hebrew.

Oy, just what we need... More goyim using hebrew curses... Doesn't anyone here see the problem which is being created? And from where do you learn how Hashem will judge people in the afterlife? Do you know how Gehennom works? I doubt it...

Couldn't you just call us gentiles.  It seems that you use goyim with a negative connotation.  As I understand it goy or goyim can be used as a derogatory term to describe someone who is not Jewish.  Why are you a member of JTF if you have such disdain for gentiles.  There are quite a few of us here.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

SerbChicago, it is rapidly coming up on ten years (March 24) since the Nazi Clinton Administration, along with the Nazi Atlantic Terror Organization, committed an unprecedented shoah against the heroic Yugoslav people. As we all know, some very evil self-hating JINOs, such as Madeline Albright and Richard Perle, had lead roles in this. The truth, of course, is that they really would have preferred to launch a blitzkrieg against their own brothers and sisters in Israel, but since public opinion wouldn't have stood for that at that point, they chose an easier target (the Serbs who saved thousands of them in World War II). Evil "Jews" like them, Nellie the Weasel (who supports giving half of Israel to the Arabs but hates the Serbs), Olmert, Barak, and Tzipi Hitler, and of course Barbra Streisand, are even lower than the Arabs, Tamils, and Albanians, and G-d will judge them much more harshly in the afterlife.

You gonna have to teach me some of the curse words in Hebrew.

Oy, just what we need... More goyim using hebrew curses... Doesn't anyone here see the problem which is being created? And from where do you learn how Hashem will judge people in the afterlife? Do you know how Gehennom works? I doubt it...

Couldn't you just call us gentiles.  It seems that you use goyim with a negative connotation.  As I understand it goy or goyim can be used as a derogatory term to describe someone who is not Jewish.  Why are you a member of JTF if you have such disdain for gentiles.  There are quite a few of us here.

Bullcat, even if I have differences of opinion with Muman, I don't think he has disdain for gentiles. He just feels uncomfortable with Gentiles cursing Jews. He thinks that that is almost a form of anti-Semitism.

Also, I have to add that I respect Muman and consider him to be a very honest Jew. Even if we have differences of opinion, I think he is a sincere person.

[nessuno]

SerbChicago, it is rapidly coming up on ten years (March 24) since the Nazi Clinton Administration, along with the Nazi Atlantic Terror Organization, committed an unprecedented shoah against the heroic Yugoslav people. As we all know, some very evil self-hating JINOs, such as Madeline Albright and Richard Perle, had lead roles in this. The truth, of course, is that they really would have preferred to launch a blitzkrieg against their own brothers and sisters in Israel, but since public opinion wouldn't have stood for that at that point, they chose an easier target (the Serbs who saved thousands of them in World War II). Evil "Jews" like them, Nellie the Weasel (who supports giving half of Israel to the Arabs but hates the Serbs), Olmert, Barak, and Tzipi Hitler, and of course Barbra Streisand, are even lower than the Arabs, Tamils, and Albanians, and G-d will judge them much more harshly in the afterlife.

You gonna have to teach me some of the curse words in Hebrew.

Oy, just what we need... More goyim using hebrew curses... Doesn't anyone here see the problem which is being created? And from where do you learn how Hashem will judge people in the afterlife? Do you know how Gehennom works? I doubt it...

Couldn't you just call us gentiles.  It seems that you use goyim with a negative connotation.  As I understand it goy or goyim can be used as a derogatory term to describe someone who is not Jewish.  Why are you a member of JTF if you have such disdain for gentiles.  There are quite a few of us here.

Bullcat, even if I have differences of opinion with Muman, I don't think he has disdain for gentiles. He just feels uncomfortable with Gentiles cursing Jews. He thinks that that is almost a form of anti-Semitism.

Also, I have to add that I respect Muman and consider him to be a very honest Jew. Even if we have differences of opinion, I think he is a sincere person.

Chaim, I understand the point you are making about Muman's feelings.  I do believe that he is a sincere person.

If Gentile members need some 'curse' words for evil people,  the Italians have plenty they can share  with them. 

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

Chaim, I have defended you in the past.
 Now I dont get involved becuase I did not and do not wish to be involved in the fight between you and Yekutiel. It goes both ways. I havn't even accused you of anything, nor have I held that you are responsible for the actions of cf and dwi.
  You calling them "rightious" in my opinion is a joke.
   If you wish to ban me, then go ahead, but I havn't done wrong to you, nor broken the rules.

You have a double standard. You get hysterical when CF says something about evil Jews, but you say nothing when real Jew-haters like Tina Greco, Archie and Jesus Rivera attack me and attack JTF Jews.

When Guzofsky and Doom allowed the Nazi Tina Greco to boast about how she is posting JTF pictures on StørmFrønt, you took the side of Guzofsky and Doom. You actually posted that we in JTF were the guilty party. You had no problem with Guzofsky and Doom refusing to ban Tina Greco, who openly admitted that she posts on the world's largest Nazi web site, a web site that praises Hitler and calls for another holocaust. And Kelly Scott, who gave Tina Greco some of the information that she posted on the Nazi web site, is still a member of the splinter forum as is Newman. You have no problem being a member of a forum that helps outright Nazis just to get at JTF. And then you complain about CF?!

Also, you claim that DWI wrote something to you in private. You claim he wrote something that was critical of Christianity. I don't know what he wrote and frankly I don't care. I assume he's telling the truth when he denies that he wrote it, because DWI has never lied to me. But let's assume just for the sake of argument that what you are saying is true - let's assume that DWI did write it. If that is true, then a fellow Jew wrote something to you in confidence and you are betraying his confidence. What an ugly thing to do! I can guarantee you that what you are doing is a very serious sin. You are someone who can never be trusted.

As a fellow Jew, I urge you to consider your actions and to do tshuva. And the only real tshuva is to request forgiveness from the people you have wronged.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

SerbChicago, it is rapidly coming up on ten years (March 24) since the Nazi Clinton Administration, along with the Nazi Atlantic Terror Organization, committed an unprecedented shoah against the heroic Yugoslav people. As we all know, some very evil self-hating JINOs, such as Madeline Albright and Richard Perle, had lead roles in this. The truth, of course, is that they really would have preferred to launch a blitzkrieg against their own brothers and sisters in Israel, but since public opinion wouldn't have stood for that at that point, they chose an easier target (the Serbs who saved thousands of them in World War II). Evil "Jews" like them, Nellie the Weasel (who supports giving half of Israel to the Arabs but hates the Serbs), Olmert, Barak, and Tzipi Hitler, and of course Barbra Streisand, are even lower than the Arabs, Tamils, and Albanians, and G-d will judge them much more harshly in the afterlife.

You gonna have to teach me some of the curse words in Hebrew.

Oy, just what we need... More goyim using hebrew curses... Doesn't anyone here see the problem which is being created? And from where do you learn how Hashem will judge people in the afterlife? Do you know how Gehennom works? I doubt it...

Couldn't you just call us gentiles.  It seems that you use goyim with a negative connotation.  As I understand it goy or goyim can be used as a derogatory term to describe someone who is not Jewish.  Why are you a member of JTF if you have such disdain for gentiles.  There are quite a few of us here.

Bullcat, even if I have differences of opinion with Muman, I don't think he has disdain for gentiles. He just feels uncomfortable with Gentiles cursing Jews. He thinks that that is almost a form of anti-Semitism.

Also, I have to add that I respect Muman and consider him to be a very honest Jew. Even if we have differences of opinion, I think he is a sincere person.

Chaim, I understand the point you are making about Muman's feelings.  I do believe that he is a sincere person.

If Gentile members need some 'curse' words for evil people,  the Italians have plenty they can share  with them. 

How true that is! Italians are normal. They know that if someone evil wants to hurt you or your loved ones, you have the right to hate and curse them. I wish the Jews would learn to think like that.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

"You get hysterical when CF says something about evil Jews"

 Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita is evil? The many other Jews he regularly insults are evil? And you call him righteous after that?

"You actually posted that we in JTF were the guilty party. "

 No I didn't. I basically said that people shouldn't post their pics on myspace and then complain (I was referring about 1 hysterical member from this forum).  You should not accept the lashon hara agains't me that I know is constantly sent to you by cf and dwi.

 " Tina Greco"

 I said she was a nazi. I think she is banned, I dont know or see her.

"Kelly Scott"

  The only thing I know about her is that she is some blond lady. I don't know who she is really.

"If that is true, then a fellow Jew wrote something to you in confidence and you are betraying his confidence. What an ugly thing to do! I can guarantee you that what you are doing is a very serious sin. You are someone who can never be trusted."

  He gave me permission, and publicly dared me to post it, and so I did. It was all with his permission and his big mouth.

"As a fellow Jew, I urge you to consider your actions and to do tshuva. And the only real tshuva is to request forgiveness from the people you have wronged."
 
  From those that I truly have wronged, I will ask for forgiveness.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

However, CF is a righteous Gentile and DWI is a wonderful Jew. They are both genuinely loyal to the cause. I just wish they would spend their time more wisely. I appeal to them to think before they post: How does what I am posting make JTF look? How will this advance or harm the cause?

That's perfectly fair to say, Chaim, but I did not go about attacking anybody in this thread. One poster got very angry and started making attacks. I also have not discussed the splinter people at all since you told me to stop in the Doom thread last night.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

"You get hysterical when CF says something about evil Jews"

 Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita is evil? The many other Jews he regularly insults are evil? And you call him righteous after that?

"You actually posted that we in JTF were the guilty party. "

 No I didn't. I basically said that people shouldn't post their pics on myspace and then complain (I was referring about 1 hysterical member from this forum).  You should not accept the lashon hara agains't me that I know is constantly sent to you by cf and dwi.

 " Tina Greco"

 I said she was a nazi. I think she is banned, I dont know or see her.

"Kelly Scott"

  The only thing I know about her is that she is some blond lady. I don't know who she is really.

"If that is true, then a fellow Jew wrote something to you in confidence and you are betraying his confidence. What an ugly thing to do! I can guarantee you that what you are doing is a very serious sin. You are someone who can never be trusted."

  He gave me permission, and publicly dared me to post it, and so I did. It was all with his permission and his big mouth.

"As a fellow Jew, I urge you to consider your actions and to do tshuva. And the only real tshuva is to request forgiveness from the people you have wronged."
 
  From those that I truly have wronged, I will ask for forgiveness.

Give me a break. You're not fooling anybody. You made a long post on the splinter, that I have reposted here many times, where in your own words you stated "I dont see the reason why the JTF ppl got all bent out of shape about tina grinko, they are the ones who put their pics on myspace/yourface". Give it up already.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

"You get hysterical when CF says something about evil Jews"

 Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita is evil? The many other Jews he regularly insults are evil? And you call him righteous after that?

"You actually posted that we in JTF were the guilty party. "

 No I didn't. I basically said that people shouldn't post their pics on myspace and then complain (I was referring about 1 hysterical member from this forum).  You should not accept the lashon hara agains't me that I know is constantly sent to you by cf and dwi.

 " Tina Greco"

 I said she was a nazi. I think she is banned, I dont know or see her.

"Kelly Scott"

  The only thing I know about her is that she is some blond lady. I don't know who she is really.

"If that is true, then a fellow Jew wrote something to you in confidence and you are betraying his confidence. What an ugly thing to do! I can guarantee you that what you are doing is a very serious sin. You are someone who can never be trusted."

  He gave me permission, and publicly dared me to post it, and so I did. It was all with his permission and his big mouth.

"As a fellow Jew, I urge you to consider your actions and to do tshuva. And the only real tshuva is to request forgiveness from the people you have wronged."
 
  From those that I truly have wronged, I will ask for forgiveness.

Give me a break. You're not fooling anybody. You made a long post on the splinter, that I have reposted here many times, where in your own words you stated "I dont see the reason why the JTF ppl got all bent out of shape about tina grinko, they are the ones who put their pics on myspace/yourface". Give it up already.

 Show me the thread and post. And I belive that I already responded to this some time ago (I think also to Lisa I responded and apologized becuase then I found out that she didn't put her pic, but about myspace/yourface it was about someone else-dwi).

 And anyway even if I am wrong, their is still no justification for what you have been continually doing.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Also, you claim that DWI wrote something to you in private. You claim he wrote something that was critical of Christianity. I don't know what he wrote and frankly I don't care. I assume he's telling the truth when he denies that he wrote it, because DWI has never lied to me. But let's assume just for the sake of argument that what you are saying is true - let's assume that DWI did write it.

Chaim, Tzvi claimed today that an "unnamed moderator" sent me a copy of what DownwithIslam PMd him. This never happened. I told Tzvi that he must have been indulging in some strong mind-altering substances because such an event was a hallucination that never took place.

PS Chaim, I did not curse ROY currently and haven't for two years, since you corrected me. All that I said was what I will repeat right now--that it seems very coincidental that big funding grants for Shas institutions so often coincide with Yosef praising self-hating Bolshevik leaders of Israel or him making halachic rulings that mirror the state's position. I did not insult him, call him evil, call him any names, etc.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

And Kelly Scott, who gave Tina Greco some of the information that she posted on the Nazi web site, is still a member of the splinter forum as is Newman.

Slightly off-topic Chaim, but it is also worth noting that the autistic freak of nature Yacov (praise G-d he is no longer with us) is friends with Newman and Kelly Scott Taylor to this very day, despite their role in giving Tina his personal information to post at Nazi sites.

[GoIsraelGo!]

Cursing should be reserved for those who are truly deserving of it. MOSLEMS, NAZIS and Radical LIBERALS who are creating a mess Worldwide.

Might I make a suggestion...let us use the word DEMON or DEMONS. That is what we are dealing with after all.

WW3 in my opinion has started already, and since Satan is behind this, we should describe those who help Satan with the proper term
of Demons.

I don't want to see anyone fighting on this forum, our enemies enjoy that.


P.S. I hope no one uses the word kike or goy again.     


                                                        Shalom & G-d bless - Dox

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

"You get hysterical when CF says something about evil Jews"

 Rav Ovadia Yosef Shlita is evil? The many other Jews he regularly insults are evil? And you call him righteous after that?

"You actually posted that we in JTF were the guilty party. "

 No I didn't. I basically said that people shouldn't post their pics on myspace and then complain (I was referring about 1 hysterical member from this forum).  You should not accept the lashon hara agains't me that I know is constantly sent to you by cf and dwi.

 " Tina Greco"

 I said she was a nazi. I think she is banned, I dont know or see her.

"Kelly Scott"

  The only thing I know about her is that she is some blond lady. I don't know who she is really.

"If that is true, then a fellow Jew wrote something to you in confidence and you are betraying his confidence. What an ugly thing to do! I can guarantee you that what you are doing is a very serious sin. You are someone who can never be trusted."

  He gave me permission, and publicly dared me to post it, and so I did. It was all with his permission and his big mouth.

"As a fellow Jew, I urge you to consider your actions and to do tshuva. And the only real tshuva is to request forgiveness from the people you have wronged."
 
  From those that I truly have wronged, I will ask for forgiveness.

Tzvi, you can fool other people and you can even fool yourself, but you can't fool Hashem. If you truly have yirat shamayim, think about how the yetzer harah has gotten you to do bad things.

You publicly threatened DWI. Only after your public threat, when his back was against the wall did he say, "go ahead and reveal it". Do you think Hashem approves of this type of public betrayal of a fellow Jew?

As for HaRav Ovadia, CF was not brought up with Jewish concepts. He was not raised to understand that it is forbidden to curse a Torah scholar, G-d forbid. CF sincerely loves and cares about Israel and he understands that the future of the whole world is tied to the future of Israel. So he feels angered and betrayed when HaRav Ovadia orders Shas to support surrendering Jewish land. Or when HaRav Ovadia ordered Shas to support the Oslo government of Rabin and Peres ys''v. Or when HaRav Ovadia ordered Shas to support the horrific government of Ehud Smolmert. Or when HaRav Ovadia's Shas party supported inviting the Arab Hitler Yasser Arafat and 80,000 armed PLO-Fatah terrorists into the Land of Israel while they were expelling me (I was expelled by the Shas Interior Minister Eli Suissa). To CF, these decisions are evil.

I also consider these decisions to be evil, but we cannot permit the cursing of Torah scholars. Because that will lead to contempt for the Torah itself, G-d forbid. CF (and DWI) have stopped doing this after I explained to them that we are a Torah movement, and in a Torah movement, there can be legitimate disagreement and criticism but no cursing of Torah scholars.

CF and DWI are righteous because they genuinely love the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. They genuinely want to help. That desire makes them righteous.

[muman613]

Cursing should be reserved for those who are truly deserving of it. MOSLEMS, NAZIS and Radical LIBERALS who are creating a mess Worldwide.

Might I make a suggestion...let us use the word DEMON or DEMONS. That is what we are dealing with after all.

WW3 in my opinion has started already, and since Satan is behind this, we should describe those who help Satan with the proper term
of Demons.

I don't want to see anyone fighting on this forum, our enemies enjoy that.


P.S. I hope no one uses the word kike or goy again.     


                                                        Shalom & G-d bless - Dox

dox,

Please tell me you don't believe in the devil! Jews do not believe that Satan is a fallen angel or anything like that. Satan is the hand of Hashem set against the Jewish people because of their iniquity. Whenever something evil happens it is Hashem sending us a message to return to Torah. This is the pure Jewish belief in the Prosecutor in heaven. The Devil is a non-Jewish idea...

SHEMA YISRAEL HASHEM ELOKAYNU,HASHEM ECHAD!

There is only ONE force in the universe and all other forces are subservient to Hashem. No Devil can destroy Hashems plan, EVER!


Please read:
 http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Witchcraft_and_Judaism.asp

The so-called "devil vs. G-d" approach is an anathema to Judaism because of the whiff of dualism inherent in it. G-d is One, and only One. He acts in many different ways, but there are no "two" armies in the full sense of the word.

Judaism does speak of the "Satan/devil," but it sees Satan as an agent of G-d, testing the sincerity of man's deeds, the strength of his convictions, and the stamina of his moral fiber. Although this so-called devil seems to entice man to do wrong, he is not inherently an evil being. Rather, he is conducting a "sting" operation; overtly enticing to bad, but in reality working for G-d. A cursory reading of the beginning of Job conveys that message: G-d sends out Satan to test Job's righteousness.

Just as a dentist or doctor tests the firmness of a bone or flesh by probing it, just as the army tests the integrity and trustworthiness of its intelligence agents by tempting them, so too does G-d test man. A test reveals the inner worthiness of a person's deeds, demonstrating what they are really made of.

So, if magic and occult do exist, why are they so evil?

http://www.beingjewish.com/faqs/conflict.html

Is the World in a Conflict Between
Good and Evil?
(This article should be read after my article Does Judaism Believe in Satan?)

In Judaism we do not see it as there being a conflict between good and evil. Some ancient religions believed that there are two forces in the universe, one good and one evil, and that they are constantly warring with each other. This was common to Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and later to Manichaeism. Christianity, however, made the devil less powerful than G-d, but still made him a rebel against G-d.

Judaism sees it differently, and we have always seen it differently. Satan is not a rebellious angel. G-d created both good and evil. The Bible says so, in Isaiah 45:7.

What is evil? Not fulfilling G-d's will.

G-d created the universe because G-d wanted to do good. So there had to be people to receive that good.

But G-d does not want to just give away good as a present. G-d wants people to appreciate it. Something you get for free you do not appreciate. And in fact, if you got something amazingly good for free, and you were allowed to enjoy it for all eternity, you would be embarrassed by it. You didn't work for it, you don't deserve it.

So G-d decided that people would have to work for it, and receive the ultimate goodness as a reward for work.

What is that work? Well, G-d created the Evil Inclination, the angel called Satan, whose job it is to tempt us to do evil. If we ignore the Evil Inclination, then we get closer to G-d, and become more holy. By doing so, we merit the reward of the ultimate goodness. G-d also gave us Commandments, and the Tempting Angel tempts us to find reasons not to keep those Commandments. By ignoring the temptations, and fulfilling G-d's Commandments, we become more spiritual, and our souls gain more power over ourselves.

So we see our lives in this world as an opportunity. We have been granted the glorious opportunity to attain holiness and ultimate goodness.

So, in the future there will come a time when the universe as we know it will come to an end, and the World To Come will begin. Then we will begin to get our eternal reward -- the ultimate goodness!

This world is here merely for us to do good things in, and the Next World is for the reward. And in that world we will continue to grow in holiness.

So it is not that there is an ultimate struggle of good versus evil. Within each of us there are many struggles. We want to do the right thing, but we desire to do the wrong thing. We have the free choice to choose. We can do either the right thing or the wrong thing. It is completely up to us.

When we let our Good Inclination prevail about one thing, we become stronger in that thing. The more we continue to let the good prevail, the more it becomes easier to do the right thing in that area.

Say, for example, we have a desire to tell harmful gossip about someone. If we hold ourselves back from doing it, and continue to hold ourselves back whenever we feel the temptation, it becomes easier and easier to stop gossiping. Conversely, the more we gossip, the harder it is to stop. And that's the way it is with every individual characteristic trait.

But when we perfect one characteristic trait, it does not always help with another. For example, if we work on becoming humble, sometimes that will help us in other areas. A humble person will be less likely to get angry at someone else. A humble person might not tell gossip either. But a humble person might still lie, or sleep late when he or she knows that there is a chore or other responsibility to deal with. Someone who has learned never to gossip might still steal, for example. So each trait usually has to be worked on by itself, but something like humility helps with most of the others.

And possibly the greatest temptation is in the area of having faith in G-d. Developing our faith helps us in many areas.

So, there is no ultimate struggle of good versus evil. There is only the struggle within each of us. The Evil Inclination, also known as Satan, is doing what G-d has commanded him to do. He is giving us temptations, because by fighting against our wrong desires we are working to gain the ultimate goodness, and that is what G-d wants us to do.

PS: What is wrong with the word 'goy'. It simply means 'Nation'... It would be like me being offended by the word 'State'.