Author Topic: Cooking Shellfish Is Selfish!!! (Read 10141 times)

Sefardic Panther · « **on:** March 15, 2009, 11:43:28 PM »

I say it is selfish because no one considers the agony they are causing these poor creatures! Not only is eating shellfish forbidden, cooking shellfish is cruelty to animals because they must be boiled alive to ensure all their deadly bacteria is destroyed.

Its not uncommon to see lobsters trying to escape from the pot! Chefs say that when the pot is covered the lid rattles because the lobster is trying to push it off and they can hear the claws scraping at the sides of the pot as it writhes around in agony. Cooking lobster has actually become illegal in Italy!

There are hilonim who protest against the holy tradition of Kaporeth trying to say that it is “cruelty to animals”. Where are these imbeciles when chefs are boiling lobsters to death? But then a hiloni chef boiling a lobster to death is not an opportunity for expressing anti-Semitism is it?

Hanketcham · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:15:41 AM »

Why is shelfish forbidden to eat? Just curious! and I will find a Kabbalic interpretation of this very insightful. thank you in advance.

Zelhar · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:15:58 AM »

Boiling Lobsters is definitely cruel, I am not sure whether shellfish can suffer. It is a very dumb organism, I don't think It has a central nerve system. Surely it SENSE the heat and is alarmed by it, but it probably can't reflect about the situation and actually FEEL pain and suffering.

~Hanna~ · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:28:00 AM »

Quote from: Hanketcham on March 17, 2009, 08:15:41 AM

Why is shelfish forbidden to eat? Just curious! and I will find a Kabbalic interpretation of this very insightful. thank you in advance.

I am not the expert here, but I believe it is because they are bottom feeders, they eat all the dead things on the bottom of the ocean floor, very unclean, pick up all the dead things....and the germs the dead things are harboring...not very healthy for humans to eat..

This is my interpretation, anyway....

Sefardic Panther · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:26:44 AM »

Wayiqra ch.11 says not to eat sea creatures that do not have fins and scales.

Kabbalah says that Kosher animals have the essence of Tiqun (i.e. sheep and cows are peaceful animals and these are the characteristics we absorb when we consume them) while treif animals have the essence of Tohu (i.e. pigs, birds of prey and shellfish are greedy scavengers and you do not want these characteristics).

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/359238/jewish/Kabbalah-on-Pork.htm

Shellfish are basically the pigs of the sea, they are scavengers and thrive on toxic waste.

~Hanna~ · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:59:01 AM »

Yes, toxic waste cannot be too awfully good for humans....

The One and Only Mo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:11:16 PM »

Quote from: ~Hanna~ on March 17, 2009, 11:59:01 AM

Yes, toxic waste cannot be too awfully good for humans....

I'm learning something new everyday.

Sefardic Panther · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:36:53 PM »

The scientific publication BBC Focus March 2009 p.50

GoIsraelGo! · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:55:35 PM »

Quote from: Sefardic Panther on March 15, 2009, 11:43:28 PM

I say it is selfish because no one considers the agony they are causing these poor creatures! Not only is eating shellfish forbidden, cooking shellfish is cruelty to animals because they must be boiled alive to ensure all their deadly bacteria is destroyed.

Its not uncommon to see lobsters trying to escape from the pot! Chefs say that when the pot is covered the lid rattles because the lobster is trying to push it off and they can hear the claws scraping at the sides of the pot as it writhes around in agony. Cooking lobster has actually become illegal in Italy!

There are hilonim who protest against the holy tradition of Kaporeth trying to say that it is “cruelty to animals”. Where are these imbeciles when chefs are boiling lobsters to death? But then a hiloni chef boiling a lobster to death is not an opportunity for expressing anti-Semitism is it?

Another cruelty is seeing those lobsters in tanks, they tie their claws so the lobsters cannot eat anything or open their claws. I don't like seeing any living thing suffer.

Shalom - Dox

Shlomo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:03:35 PM »

In Mississippi, I saw them cooked alive and actually heard them "scream". It seriously bothered me and still does. If it's required for survival in life and death situations, that's one thing... but I don't see a lot of starving people eating lobster.

I will never put a sea cockroach into my mouth. It's truly revolting.

~Hanna~ · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 04:23:50 PM »

Quote from: Shlomo on March 17, 2009, 03:03:35 PM

In Mississippi, I saw them cooked alive and actually heard them "scream". It seriously bothered me and still does. If it's required for survival in life and death situations, that's one thing... but I don't see a lot of starving people eating lobster.

I will never put a sea cockroach into my mouth. It's truly revolting.

THEY WERE SCREAMING?

Ulli · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 05:00:24 PM »

I think the lobster doesn't feel anything if it is put in a pot of salted heavy boiling water. It dies instantly by the shock.

The only cruel thing with it is, if the water is not hot enough.

I for myself have only boiled common mussels and this is a few years ago. It tastes not so bad, but there is only a little ammount of meat in the mussel. You have to boil dozens of mussles to be full. I didn't think this meal is economical.

Besides from this, I agree with Shlomo, that we shouldn't eat lobster only for our pleasures. There are so much "normal" foods, we can eat.

Imo the best foods are regional foods, that are fresh available in the season.

This saves us a lot of money. I heard, that the lobster population in the North Sea are nearly extinct.

I think this lobster eating is an environment issue too from an ecologically point of view.

cjd · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 06:59:35 PM »

I don't understand why people go so crazy for the ugly things. The price of them is just outlandish. There are some things that humans just should not eat and that is one of them. People cooking a lobster should be sure the water is boiling rapidly and put the lobster in then the thing will die instantly. I have heard stories where some rocket scientists put the poor creature in a pot of cold water and brought the water up to a boil. This is not only cruel but will make the lobster meat tough. We have a aquarium here on Long Island with a huge salt water tank that looks like hill in a sea bed. They had a giant Lobster living in the tank and I was surprised to see how fast the thing moved around on foot. If you think they just lay around the bottom of the ocean your very wrong. The lobster looked quite aggressive and may have even snagged a fish or two that was not alert.

Shamgar · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 08:09:47 PM »

Sashimi. Nectar of the Gentiles.

White Israelite · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:21:16 PM »

Quote from: Shlomo on March 17, 2009, 03:03:35 PM

In Mississippi, I saw them cooked alive and actually heard them "scream". It seriously bothered me and still does. If it's required for survival in life and death situations, that's one thing... but I don't see a lot of starving people eating lobster.

I will never put a sea cockroach into my mouth. It's truly revolting.

Wait, Lobsters scream?

And I agree, lobsters look like massive cockroaches that live in the ocean. I tried it once and everyone at the dinner table was saying how rich and delicious it was, I didn't see the big fuss honestly, it wasn't that great.... it was at some japanese place or something.

Hanketcham · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:25:45 PM »

From the discussion above I find 3 ideas very useful for understanding the trouble with eating shellfish. 1) Shell fish is the pig of the sea 2) lobster is a marine version of corkroach 3) Shell fish are scavengers of the sea eating mostly the dirt and dead animals on the sea floor. Come to think of it their diet might include defecations of other sea creatures.

Also, I find very valuable, is the esoteric observation: that whatever we eat will effect us. If we eat peaceful animals (cows goats) we can establish peace and calm within ourselves. If we eat creatures that consume toxins, dead animals, bacteria, defecation, we inculcate chaos and spiritual sickness with in ourselves.

We absorb not just the nutrients from the food, but we also absorb the esoteric, occultic properties in the food source.

Shamgar · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2009, 02:59:56 PM »

I'm going to eat shark and then go out and find me a muzzie.

White Israelite · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2009, 03:24:58 PM »

Quote from: Shamgar on March 18, 2009, 02:59:56 PM

I'm going to eat shark and then go out and find me a muzzie.

I've eaten shark before, it was different but it tasted good. That was several years ago though before I knew it wasn't kosher.

Ulli · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2009, 03:53:33 PM »

Quote from: White Israelite on March 17, 2009, 10:21:16 PM

Quote from: Shlomo on March 17, 2009, 03:03:35 PM
In Mississippi, I saw them cooked alive and actually heard them "scream". It seriously bothered me and still does. If it's required for survival in life and death situations, that's one thing... but I don't see a lot of starving people eating lobster.

I will never put a sea cockroach into my mouth. It's truly revolting.

Wait, Lobsters scream?

And I agree, lobsters look like massive cockroaches that live in the ocean. I tried it once and everyone at the dinner table was saying how rich and delicious it was, I didn't see the big fuss honestly, it wasn't that great.... it was at some japanese place or something.

Lobsters can't scream. I think the strange sound has something to do with the exosceletton and the rapid ascending of the inner pressure caused by heating.

It works basically like a pressure cooker or a kettle. This causes the sound.

~Hanna~ · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2009, 04:34:51 PM »

Quote from: Pheasant on March 18, 2009, 03:53:33 PM

Quote from: White Israelite on March 17, 2009, 10:21:16 PM
Quote from: Shlomo on March 17, 2009, 03:03:35 PM
In Mississippi, I saw them cooked alive and actually heard them "scream". It seriously bothered me and still does. If it's required for survival in life and death situations, that's one thing... but I don't see a lot of starving people eating lobster.

I will never put a sea cockroach into my mouth. It's truly revolting.

Wait, Lobsters scream?

And I agree, lobsters look like massive cockroaches that live in the ocean. I tried it once and everyone at the dinner table was saying how rich and delicious it was, I didn't see the big fuss honestly, it wasn't that great.... it was at some japanese place or something.

Lobsters can't scream. I think the strange sound has something to do with the exosceletton and the rapid ascending of the inner pressure caused by heating.

It works basically like a pressure cooker or a kettle. This causes the sound.

Rubystars · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:56:49 PM »

I agree that boiling lobsters is cruel, shrimp probably die a lot faster than lobsters though because they're so much smaller and probably die more quickly in the hot water. If it helps any the scream probably had to do with the exoskeleton and escaping air like Pheasant said. Crustaceans do feel pain though, they have a nervous system.

muman613 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:27:05 PM »

Quote from: Rubystars on March 18, 2009, 10:56:49 PM

I agree that boiling lobsters is cruel, shrimp probably die a lot faster than lobsters though because they're so much smaller and probably die more quickly in the hot water. If it helps any the scream probably had to do with the exoskeleton and escaping air like Pheasant said. Crustaceans do feel pain though, they have a nervous system.

Why all this talk about Treif here in the Torah section... Both Shrimp and Lobsters are forbidden for Jews to eat. They are both bottom-feeders and not Kosher.

Hanketcham · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2009, 06:46:11 AM »

i have had shark fin soup. Plenty of muzzies where i live. I used to be one till, after nearly 20 yrs of research and selfquestioning, i apostasized. I am noahide zionist, with interest in the esoteric occult arts.

Rubystars · « **Reply #23 on:** March 27, 2009, 04:05:36 PM »

I think this article is relevant to this thread.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29915025/?GT1=43001

I don't even think non-Jews should be eating lobster or crabs, because it's cruel and it's unhealthy.

Shlomo · « **Reply #24 on:** March 27, 2009, 05:06:28 PM »

I'm glad that part of the scientific community is finally admitting that all animals feel pain. It's more of a cop-out and an escape from responsibility to suggest otherwise.