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Anunnaki in light of Torah, Talmud, Zohar

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muman613:

--- Quote from: Hanketcham on March 18, 2009, 03:39:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Sefardic Panther on March 17, 2009, 04:16:33 PM ---I think the Anunnaki could be the Nefilim mentioned in Bereshith ch.6. These were the offspring of Jin and human women.

Nefilim can mean “giants” or “fallen ones”. I think Anunnaki is Akkadian and means “beings from the sky” or "those who descended".

The term “Anaqim” (the descendants of the Nefilim mentioned in Bamidbar ch.13) is very similar to “Anunnaki”. Hevron was originally their chief city.

This is a very interesting subject it would be excellent to see other views on this.


--- End quote ---

Where can we locate Hevron on the present day map!
So the anunnaki were human / jin hybrids as well as fallen from a great stature (fallen Angels). 

I am very inquisitive as to where the union of jin and woman took place.  Is Lillith involved in this union of jin and woman?    Was her union with Samael the original mating that led to this hybrid race of jin and woman?  It is believed that Lillith and Samael consummated their relationship after Lillith rejected Adam and fled, refusing to return with the Angels G-d sent after her.  so she sided with Samael.  Was samael eventually a fallen angel.?  Is he lucifer?
If they did concieve, him and Lillith, then they had hybrid jin/woman offspring.  And unless they did not reject their parents, they are all of teh fallen ones. 
Any views on this???

--- End quote ---

I think that you didn't read what I posted. I don't think these were fallen angels. They were 'men of reknown' because they were so close to Adam and knew G-d... The idea of fallen angels is not a very Jewish idea. Also there are no half-human half-gods in Jewish belief. Angels are simply the forces of Hashem and they have no free-will like a human. In Jewish belief Humans are superior to angels because humans have free-will while angels do not. The only question is whether they have the ability to bargain with Hashem as there are midrashes which discuss conversations between Hashem and the angels, like when the universe was created the angels asked hashem if it was worth it...

Also Lucifer is not a Jewish concept... We have no concept like the Devil... The closest thing is the Satan which is the prosecutor in the holy tribunal and also he is the Yetzer Hara {Evil inclination} in all men. I have written extensively about how other religions have poisoned the Jewish idea of Good and Evil. In Judaism both GOOD AND EVIL are created by Hashem... Good doesnt come from Hashem and Evil from some devil... All is created from Hashem, he creates evil to bring about some unforseen good.

You are right that Samael is another name for the Satan...

Hanketcham:
I understand Muman613.  Fallen angel does not correctly describe the anunnaki.   Nor is it a valid concept for an angel.  I also agree that the original anunnaki were the people of knowledge and esoteric status.  I believe that they disagreed on the issue of adam.   
I feel that those who disagreed were led by Samael.  When lillith rejected adam, samael took a union with lillith.  There off-spring had to be part anunnaki and part human.  THat is they were hybrid anunnaki or human anunnaki.

Can we develop this scenario further?

muman613:

--- Quote from: Hanketcham on March 18, 2009, 12:10:10 PM ---I understand Muman613.  Fallen angel does not correctly describe the anunnaki.   Nor is it a valid concept for an angel.  I also agree that the original anunnaki were the people of knowledge and esoteric status.  I believe that they disagreed on the issue of adam.   
I feel that those who disagreed were led by Samael.  When lillith rejected adam, samael took a union with lillith.  There off-spring had to be part anunnaki and part human.  THat is they were hybrid anunnaki or human anunnaki.

Can we develop this scenario further?

--- End quote ---

I don't know about this particular story you refer but I have searched for it.

I am not sure if this is too high a level to understand but it seems you have looked into these ideas before. What I will post is certainly considered Kabbalistic understanding of Torah. As others here have said that Kabbalah must be understood in light of complete Jewish halacha and observance. A man can only learn Kabbalah once he has mastered Pshat {basic understanding} of Torah.

But it may be interesting for those who are inclined for mysticism so I will post it and refer readers to appropriate websites and teachers.

http://www.kabbalaonline.org/majorconcepts/landofisrael/agents_of_a_foreign_death_124.asp


--- Quote ---Agents of a Foreign Death 12:4

Translation and commentary by Rabbi David Slavin

Let us resume discussing the types of death in Eretz Yisrael and abroad. There are three main types.

Slaughtering with a blemished knife results in [a category in Jewish law rendering food unkosher referred to as] "nevayla". This happens to those who are killed by Samael [the Angel of Death], who uses a blemished knife. There are two types of blemishes in a slaughtering knife: 1) "Ogrot" [meaning "jagged"] and 2) "Mesuchsachot" [meaning smooth in one direction yet jagged in the other]; that knife doesn't kill those who die in Eretz Yisrael, rather they get killed with the sword of G-d.

This happens to the those ignorant of Torah ["amei ha'aretz", literally, "people of the land"], who lived as animals, therefore they need to gain atonement through slaughtering. This is accomplished through the pain of death. This is alluded to in the verse, "And the land shall atone for the nation [ami ha'aretz]"(Deut. 32:43), yet their death is done by the means of a "kosher" angel. This angel goes up and acquires permission, then descends and grabs the Neshama, somewhat like a snake. Yet abroad, the angel literally grabs him precisely as a snake.

"Ogrot" is from the root of Ograt bat Machalat [a female demonic force]; she causes blemishes to the soul from all directions. She is most distressing for mankind to experience. This is also referred to as "nevayla" [improperly slaughtered kosher animal] hinting to: "neval - Y-ah [G-d]". "Neval" [in the male form] is Samael, whilst "Nevala" [in the female form] is Lilith [basically the queen of all demonic forces, also the wife of Samael]. This is the Ogrot that gathers together all the soldiers of defilement, she is the mother of demons, definitely jagged; through her are contaminated all those who excite themselves for naught. She collects all those wasted drops and uses them for her own wishes. She impregnates herself from them and gives birth to these demented sons, may G-d save us. She mutilates and causes a nevayla.

Mesuchsechet is difficult yet not so extreme, for it has a side of purity to it despite its distortion of man. Her repentance is very difficult; she grasps and defiles the soul from only one side.

Both these knives create a nevayla. Therefore their slaughtering results in real death, for Samael and the primordial Snake are in the blade, and his flesh becomes defiled for it has been taken hold of by the External Forces.

Yet Torah scholars that toil in G-d's Torah, which is the Tree of Life, need no slaughtering. Rather they are collected to G-d in Zion. In other words, the Shechina appears to them in the contingency of all the tzadikim in Gan Eden. The Torah scholar lifts himself above the physical and material and is collected to his nation with the Shechina. His being gathered towards the glory of G-d frees him. The concept of the sea [in Hebrew, "yam"] is the notion of the Sea of Torah. His being collected from the "sea" is possible only by interrupting his Torah learning. As can be seen by the deaths of Rabba bar Nachmani (Baba Metzia 86 a) and King David (Shabbat 31) as well as those mentioned in tractate Moed Katan 28a [where we see that Rav Chisda couldn't be taken by the angel of death for he never stopped learning].

Samael is called the "Mota Ravreva" ["Great Death" in Aramaic] and was created on the second day of Creation, while Lilith is called the "Mota Zutrata" ["Smaller Death"] and was created on the fourth day of Creation. Yet he who is a Torah scholar can not be taken by either. Rather G-d takes his soul in a manner similar to that of a kiss. This is what is meant by the verse, "An illegitimate child [in Hebrew, 'mamzer'] shall not enter the congregation of G-d". For the word "mamzer" spells the beginning letters of "Mota Ravreva" and "Mota Zutrasa". They shall not enter the congregation of G-d (which are the tzadikim). Rather they [Torah scholars] die be means of the kiss of G-d.

In regards to death, outside Eretz Yisrael it is accomplished by the Angel of Death, whereas in Israel it comes about via a holy force. The same rules will apply to sleeping. For one who sleeps away from Israel, enters that state with kelipot and the External Forces, whereas in Eretz Yisrael it is through holiness, for the kelipot are prohibited from entering Eretz Yisrael (as per Zohar parashat Teruma). Just like death in Israel enables tranquility for the soul leading to ascension to Gan Eden, so too sleep is for the tranquility of the soul, that it should cleave to holiness and to revel and bask in the sweet supernal light.

Just as evildoers, through their sins and death, their souls are cast aside and cut off from holiness, the same is true during their lifetimes. That's why evildoers are called "dead" whilst they are alive, only that there is a vast difference between the two types of deaths. In real death, the External Forces rule over the soul to punish her in accordance to her evilness; in death during life, however, there exists a protection preventing the External Forces from controlling the soul, yet the External Forces still are able to pester the soul. This is a benefit of reciting Shema at bedtime, for it distances the External Forces from attacking the soul while it ascends for the night.

Rabbi Chaim Vital wrote that there exist two angels who are in charge of death. The one in charge of death outside of Israel is named "Samael"; the one in charge of death within Eretz Yisrael is called "Gabriel". Each of them has great armies, comprising of angels who are called "angels of death". Yet the two of them are both servants to Metatron. Each day G-d informs Metatron of who and how many have been sentenced to death. In turn Metatron goes and commands Samael his servant to take the souls of those sentenced to death on that day outside of Eretz Yisrael; likewise he commands Gabriel to go and remove the souls of those who had been sentenced to death in Eretz Yisrael.

Nonetheless those two have never taken a soul themselves. Rather they send one of their troops to perform the deed instead, for there exists an angel for each and every soul. And the level of each angel corresponds to the level of the soul that they are going to take. After completing the mission and handing over the newly removed soul to their boss, that angel is voided from the world. For the sole purpose of the angel's existence was to remove the soul from that person. This is as our Sages taught in regards to the verse, "As shall do the bees" (Deut. 1:44): For the life of the bee is dependant upon its stinger when lodged in the flesh of a person. Shortly after the sting she dies, nonetheless she is happy that she caused pain to the person. Thus all angels of death are happy in their removing the soul of the person, thinking how great it is to be granted the ability to take the soul from a descendent of the Holy Nation.
--- End quote ---

Hanketcham:
So Samael is the devil and the angel of death?  so inspite of being damned as the devil, he is still to carry out his tasks as before?  Was he an angel of death before the creation of adam?
Who is Metatron? Angel?  Higest in heirarchy to Samael and gabriel.  Is this the same gabriel that people call the holy spirit? Also is it possible for there more than one angel with the names samael and gabriel.?

"Neval" [in the male form] is Samael, whilst "Nevala" [in the female form] is Lilith [basically the queen of all demonic forces, also the wife of Samael]. This is the Ogrot that gathers together all the soldiers of defilement, she is the mother of demons, definitely jagged; through her are contaminated all those who excite themselves for naught. She collects all those wasted drops and uses them for her own wishes. She impregnates herself from them and gives birth to these demented sons, may G-d save us. She mutilates and causes a nevayla."

I understand from this that lillith impregnates herself from wasted semen of man.  She bears children who are hybrids, half lillithian and half human.
She must have born a similar line of hybrids from Samael; a race of hybrids, half lillithian and half of Samael's kind.

"Therefore their slaughtering results in real death, for Samael and the primordial Snake are in the blade, and his flesh becomes defiled for it has been taken hold of by the External Forces."
What is the primordial snake? the Kundalini serpent?  The serpent that decieved Eve?

Samael is called the "Mota Ravreva" ["Great Death" in Aramaic] and was created on the second day of Creation, while Lilith is called the "Mota Zutrata" ["Smaller Death"] and was created on the fourth day of Creation.
If Lillith was created on the 4 day of creation, that means Adam was created just before her, appoximately 3rd day?  So samael was created on 2nd day.  He was a born elite?  Because the very next day he rejected Adam!

Muck DeFuslims:
"To demonstrate his point, Rav Kook noted that the great Nephilim who brought about the world's moral collapse were "anshei shem." Usually translated as 'men of renown,' this phrase literally means 'men of names,' or 'men of words.' They were great leaders, skilled in the arts of persuasion and rhetoric. But their talents were an empty shell, devoid of inner content. On the contrary, they used their superficial eloquence for unscrupulous purposes."


Hmmmm. Sounds like a pretty good description of the "anshei shem" currently occupying the White House.

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