Kol HaKavod to Religious IDF Troops for following Halacha

[muman613]

This is wonderful news... It seems that our religious IDF troops are fulfilling the mitzvot of following Jewish law. It is not permissable for a Jewish man to hear a woman singing. I do not listen to any female singers in the music I listen to in order not to violate this command. But the secular IDF seems to want to force them to violate the Jewish laws. I pray that IDF accomodates the religious members because the only reason IDF is protected and victorious is because of these few Jews who are following Hashems commands.
 
"
IDF Reviews Soldiers’ Refusal to View Female Singers
Adar 24, 5769, 20 March 09 10:33
by Gil Ronen

(IsraelNN.com) Large groups of religious soldiers have begun walking out on performances that include female soldiers singing on stage, the IDF’s magazine BaMachaneh reported in its latest issue.

According to the military publication, it has become commonplace for large groups of soldiers to walk out of shows put on for them by IDF morale-boosting song-and-dance troupes. In so doing, the soldiers are following religious Jewish law (Halacha), which disapproves of females singing and/or dancing before a male audience. The soldiers who walk out of the performances usually do so only for the duration of the female dance routines, and return to their seats when those routines are over.

BaMachaneh said that the most recent such event occurred at a performance held in an event for the Paratroopers’ Brigade at the Haifa Congress Hall. At the event, which was held to mark the end of Operation Cast Lead, about 100 soldiers left the hall when a female soldier from the brigade went on stage to sing.

After the musical interlude, the soldiers were all asked to return to their seats.

A 'worrisome' phenomenon
Another similar event occurred in February 2008, at the ‘historic legacy’ (moreshet) ceremony of the Givati Brigade’s Tzabar Battalion. Numerous soldiers left the event after they found out that it would involve a female singer.

No disciplinary action was taken against the soldiers in either event.%ad%

The IDF’s Head Education and Youth Officer, Brig.-Gen. Eli Shermeister, said that the phenomenon was a ‘worrisome’ one. “It is not proper that on events dedicated to the unit, the soldiers will split up and will not all be part of the event, which is meant to strengthen their bonding,” he said. “The Education and Youth Corps knows how to help produce events which fit the tastes of all of the IDF’s soldiers and this phenomenon – which has a negative effect on the unit’s cohesion and the importance of the event – should not be granted legitimacy.”

'No justification for coercion'
The Military Rabbinate said, however, that there is no justification for forcing religious soldiers and officers to be present at these parts of the ceremonies and for coercing them into something that contradicts their religious worldview.

“The organizers should be aware of this problem,” explained Rabbi Captain Menachem Perl, who heads the Halacha Section in the Military Rabbinate. He calls for a “creative solution” to be found, “either by releasing the religious soldiers from the entire event, or by letting them exit discreetly during parts of the event, or by changing the contents of the event itself.”

Perl said that Halacha (Jewish law) defines listening to a woman’s singing voice as a step toward intimacy and thus immodest (kol be’isha erva) and that therefore, according to the letter of the religious law, religious soldiers are not allowed to listen to a female singer even in a military ceremony.

He added, however, that commanders and professional officers whose presence is essential are “grudgingly” given permission to remain in the hall during the singing.
"

[Muck DeFuslims]

"It is not permissable for a Jewish man to hear a woman singing."

What do you base this on ?

[muman613]

"It is not permissable for a Jewish man to hear a woman singing."

What do you base this on ?

The article quotes the halacha here:


Perl said that Halacha (Jewish law) defines listening to a woman’s singing voice as a step toward intimacy and thus immodest (kol be’isha erva) and that therefore, according to the letter of the religious law, religious soldiers are not allowed to listen to a female singer even in a military ceremony.

Here is Chabads answer:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/478233/jewish/Why-cant-a-male-listen-to-a-female-singer.htm

Why can't a male listen to a female singer?

By Chana Weisberg

The singing voice of a woman is considered sensual and possibly stimulating to males. It is therefore forbidden for a man to hear a woman other than his immediate family sing and it is prohibited to pray or study Torah in that environment.

Several halachic (Jewish law) authorities are of the opinion that a recording or a radio transmitted singing voice of a woman who one does not personally know would not be actually prohibited. It is the custom however in most orthodox circles for men to refrain from hearing a woman sing in any format through any medium.

I know that in today's time this might seem severe, but the Torah puts such enormous value on the bond between a husband and wife that it does not allow for any potential damage to a man's undivided and unequivocal devotion and attraction to his one and only partner in life. Imagine how beautiful that is!

Click here for more on this subject.

Chana Weisberg for Chabad.org

P.S. While the above is the general rule, there are exceptions and certain leniencies. For example: The “Sridei Eish” (Rabbi Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg (1885-1966)) opines that it is permitted for women to sing along with other men. There are also those who are of the view that the restriction against men hearing women singing doesn’t apply to women who are singing in a group, since no individual is calling attention to herself.

[Muck DeFuslims]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

[mord]

i LISTEN TO FEMALE SINGERS BUT IF SOMEONE DOESN'T APPROVE AND ARE GOOD SOLDIERS THE ARMY SHOULD GIVE THEM EXEMPTIONS.IN THE U.S. MILITARY THEY TRY HARD TO GIVE SOLDIERS RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS WHEN POSSIBLE

[Lisa]

I really don't care whether or not these soldiers listen to women singing or not. However, I would like to see these soldiers stick to Halacha when it comes to giving up Jewish land.  I would like to know exactly how many of these soldiers threw ethnically cleanses their fellow Jews at Gush Katif.  

Only when the majority of soldiers stop obeying immoral orders and side with their fellow Jews will I commend them for being observant.  

[mord]

I really don't care whether or not these soldiers listen to women singing or not. However, I would like to see these soldiers stick to Halacha when it comes to giving up Jewish land.  I would like to know exactly how many of these soldiers threw ethnically cleanses their fellow Jews at Gush Katif.  

Only when the majority of soldiers stop obeying immoral orders and side with their fellow Jews will I commend them for being observant.  

QFT  [QUOTED FOR TRUTH]

[muman613]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

[muman613]

I really don't care whether or not these soldiers listen to women singing or not. However, I would like to see these soldiers stick to Halacha when it comes to giving up Jewish land.  I would like to know exactly how many of these soldiers threw ethnically cleanses their fellow Jews at Gush Katif.  

Only when the majority of soldiers stop obeying immoral orders and side with their fellow Jews will I commend them for being observant.  

I have heard that many religious officers refused to follow orders to evict from Gush Katif. Let me see if I can find some references to these stories..

http://www.templeinstitute.org/archive/08-08-05.htm

One of the officers at the crossing told Schaeffer, "Come back tomorrow, sign your names on the list of visitors, and I will take responsibility for your entry. "We left," said Schaeffer, "sure that they were just trying to give us the runaround, stayed at a nearby Kibbutz and came back Wednesday morning.

The officer stood by his word. "He looked me in the eye, shook my hand, and said, ÔWhoever you go in with - you come out with - all together.' What he did not say, however, was how long we could stay."

As the jubilant Americans prepared to enter the region that is supposed to be emptied of Jews in six days from now, one of the soldiers at the crossing pulled Schaeffer aside, telling him: "You should know that the army is with you. We don't want to do this, and we want you to relay a message to the residents of Gush Katif to stay strong," he said. "We of the IDF are the last people who want this Disengagement to happen," he added.

The group, sporting yellow T-shirts reading "Americans oppose Jewish expulsion" in Hebrew and English, is now settling in at N'vei Dekalim, the largest town in Gush Katif.

http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2005/07/22/what-is-a-nice-leftist-doing-at-a-right-wing-demonstration/

[Muck DeFuslims]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

I guess I don't understand the meaning of tzniut.

Sorry, but I like hearing a beautiful female voice. I like following my eyes and ears. I'm not deaf or blind. Hashem gave us eyes and ears for a reason. And enjoying hearing a beautiful melody sung by a female doesn't make one impure or invariably lead to evil inclinations. I look at a beautiful sunset and appreciate Hashem giving us this. I eat a delicious fruit and I thank Hashem for it. I hear a beautiful song and I thank Hashem for allowing the song to be written and for me to hear it. And that's true if a man or a woman is singing it.

Is it ok for me to listen to Frank Sinatra ?  Or maybe that'll make me gay ?

[muman613]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

I guess I don't understand the meaning of tzniut.

Sorry, but I like hearing a beautiful female voice. I like following my eyes and ears. I'm not deaf or blind. Hashem gave us eyes and ears for a reason. And enjoying hearing a beautiful melody sung by a female doesn't make one impure or invariably lead to evil inclinations. I look at a beautiful sunset and appreciate Hashem giving us this. I eat a delicious fruit and I thank Hashem for it. I hear a beautiful song and I thank Hashem for allowing the song to be written and for me to hear it. And that's true if a man or a woman is singing it.

Is it ok for me to listen to Frank Sinatra ?  Or maybe that'll make me gay ?

It is blessed that you enjoy all these things. Do you make a Bracha on the food before you eat it? We {Jews} should be making at least 100 blessings a day. I say blessings each day when I see beautiful mountains or the sea shore. I say blessings when I smell wonderful food. There are many things to enjoy and they all point to Hashem as the source.

But to say that YOU are better than the rabbis is a bit chutzpahdik. The more righteous a person is the more he struggles with his yetzer hara. So you think you are safe and it is OK for you, that is your decision, but one I will consider un-wise.

P.S: I have heard, seen, tasted, and done just about every transgression and now I want to live the life on the path {derech}... In order to do so I must control what I look at and what I think about.

[muman613]

Regarding Tzniut: http://ohr.edu/ask/ask076.htm

"
Sheli Berger wrote:

Dear Rabbi,

I understand the reason for married women covering their hair is modesty, yet today a lot of the sheitles (wigs) woman wear are nicer than their real hair. I think the wearing of make-up can be viewed in the same manner. It improves the person's appearance - doesn't this contradict the laws of modesty?

Dear Sheli Berger,

The Halachot of Tzniut - modesty - can be divided into two categories: relative and absolute.

The Halachot of Tzniut which are absolute are the minimal Torah standard. For example, the Talmud states that it is immodest for a man to listen to a woman sing. Similarly, a married woman should cover her hair, and all women should cover the thigh and upper arm. This means covering the elbow and knee - even when sitting.

The other aspect of Tzniut is the relative aspect, which changes based on societal standards. For example, in a place where the accepted style is to wear skirts down to the ankles - as was the style at the turn of the century - a mid-calf skirt would violate the laws of Tzniut.

This relative aspect of Tzniut applies only when the societal standard is more demanding than the Torah's minimal standard, like in the case of the long skirts. But if, for instance, mini-skirts are in vogue, the Torah standard would nevertheless require a woman to cover her knees.

What about wigs? Actually, there are Poskim who forbid wigs. Most people today however follow the opinion that wigs do indeed fulfill the Torah's requirement for a married woman to cover her hair. After all, her hair is covered, and if her wig is in keeping with the societal standards of modesty, then it is OK for her to wear it.

Certainly one reason for modesty is in order not to act in a way that is suggestive or alluring. But any behavior which stands out, as if to say "Look at me" is a lack of modesty. For instance, if mid-calf skirts are in style, someone who wears a floor length skirt, thinking she's being "more" modest, might actually be doing the opposite. By being different from everyone else, she actually calls attention to herself! Perhaps she wants to be noted for her pious behavior, but the result is a lack of Tzniut.

Tzniut is far more than a dress code. A person's attitude towards Tzniut reflects directly on his entire outlook, attitude, and approach to life. Is he interested in externals and what others think of him; or is he striving on an internal level, wondering what G-d thinks of him? If a person's main concern is to do what's right in G-d's eyes, he won't look at life as though it's one big fashion show, and he won't be crushed if he's not listed as one of People Magazine's "ten best dressed."

If a person chooses a wig called "Fantasma" or "Black Magic" this will be easily discernible in her general appearance and the way she carries herself. The cut, color and the way the wig is worn project an image. A modest style projects modesty; a flashy one, flash.

That having been said, it should be noted that Tzniut doesn't require a person to look like "Charlie Brown on Halloween." When the Talmudic Sage Abba Chilkiya would return to the city, his wife used to come out to greet him wearing nice clothes and jewelry. Her intentions were to look attractive for her husband. A person can, and should, always try to look presentable. The main thing is to keep in mind the verse "...what is it that Hashem asks of you, but to act justly, love kindness and to walk with Tzniut with Hashem your G-d
"

[DownwithIslam]

I don't see why religious soldiers should be forced to listen to female singers. It should be their choice.

[Muck DeFuslims]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

I guess I don't understand the meaning of tzniut.

Sorry, but I like hearing a beautiful female voice. I like following my eyes and ears. I'm not deaf or blind. Hashem gave us eyes and ears for a reason. And enjoying hearing a beautiful melody sung by a female doesn't make one impure or invariably lead to evil inclinations. I look at a beautiful sunset and appreciate Hashem giving us this. I eat a delicious fruit and I thank Hashem for it. I hear a beautiful song and I thank Hashem for allowing the song to be written and for me to hear it. And that's true if a man or a woman is singing it.

Is it ok for me to listen to Frank Sinatra ?  Or maybe that'll make me gay ?

It is blessed that you enjoy all these things. Do you make a Bracha on the food before you eat it? We {Jews} should be making at least 100 blessings a day. I say blessings each day when I see beautiful mountains or the sea shore. I say blessings when I smell wonderful food. There are many things to enjoy and they all point to Hashem as the source.

But to say that YOU are better than the rabbis is a bit chutzpahdik. The more righteous a person is the more he struggles with his yetzer hara. So you think you are safe and it is OK for you, that is your decision, but one I will consider un-wise.

P.S: I have heard, seen, tasted, and done just about every transgression and now I want to live the life on the path {derech}... In order to do so I must control what I look at and what I think about.

Threads like this help me understand why I'm not religious.

I don't think or say I'm better than the Rabbis.

I just have different standards.

I too have experienced just about every transgression. I still transgress this very day.

At least by Rabbinical and Torah standards. I'm a very bad Jew.

And to tell you the truth, I'm going to continue to transgress. Strict Torah observance just isn't for me.

I won't 'transgress' in the presence of those that would be offended by my transgressions. I understand and respect their view of life, the standards they follow and the code they live by.

But I'm going to continue to listen to female singers when it pleases me, as long as it isn't hurting or offending my religious counterparts.

And that's the least of my transgressions.

On that note, I wish all my observant friends here a wonderful Shabbat.

See you guys when the forum re-opens.

[New Yorker]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

I guess I don't understand the meaning of tzniut.

Sorry, but I like hearing a beautiful female voice. I like following my eyes and ears. I'm not deaf or blind. Hashem gave us eyes and ears for a reason. And enjoying hearing a beautiful melody sung by a female doesn't make one impure or invariably lead to evil inclinations. I look at a beautiful sunset and appreciate Hashem giving us this. I eat a delicious fruit and I thank Hashem for it. I hear a beautiful song and I thank Hashem for allowing the song to be written and for me to hear it. And that's true if a man or a woman is singing it.

Is it ok for me to listen to Frank Sinatra ?  Or maybe that'll make me gay ?

It is blessed that you enjoy all these things. Do you make a Bracha on the food before you eat it? We {Jews} should be making at least 100 blessings a day. I say blessings each day when I see beautiful mountains or the sea shore. I say blessings when I smell wonderful food. There are many things to enjoy and they all point to Hashem as the source.

But to say that YOU are better than the rabbis is a bit chutzpahdik. The more righteous a person is the more he struggles with his yetzer hara. So you think you are safe and it is OK for you, that is your decision, but one I will consider un-wise.

P.S: I have heard, seen, tasted, and done just about every transgression and now I want to live the life on the path {derech}... In order to do so I must control what I look at and what I think about.

Threads like this help me understand why I'm not religious.

I don't think or say I'm better than the Rabbis.

I just have different standards.

I too have experienced just about every transgression. I still transgress this very day.

At least by Rabbinical and Torah standards. I'm a very bad Jew.

And to tell you the truth, I'm going to continue to transgress. Strict Torah observance just isn't for me.

I won't 'transgress' in the presence of those that would be offended by my transgressions. I understand and respect their view of life, the standards they follow and the code they live by.

But I'm going to continue to listen to female singers when it pleases me, as long as it isn't hurting or offending my religious counterparts.

And that's the least of my transgressions.

On that note, I wish all my observant friends here a wonderful Shabbat.

See you guys when the forum re-opens.

I totally relate. Same deal here. Still a hardcore Kahanist though, go figure.

[Moshe92]

Thanks for posting those articles about modesty, Muman.

[Daleksfearme]

So you don't listen to a Barabara Streisand record in your personal life, because you might become intimate with Babs ?

I can understand the prohibition during Torah study, and almost understand the restriction in a military setting...but in a personal, recreational, entertainment mode ??

Give me a break.

I'm pretty sure Rabbi Perl wouldn't mind you listening to a female singer on your CD player.

I am sure you don't quite understand the meaning of tzniut. Anyone who is interested in Modesty needs to study the laws of tzniut and you will understand why a man should not listen to a female singer. The eyes and ears are very strong senses and men have a knack of following their eyes and ears. This too is why a religious Jew will wear tzit-tzits to remind us not to follow the inclinations of our Eyes and our hearts. While it is true that no lighting will strike down someone who listens, it is best if a person is on a path of seeking Hashem to purify his thoughts and what he sees and hears...

I guess I don't understand the meaning of tzniut.

Sorry, but I like hearing a beautiful female voice. I like following my eyes and ears. I'm not deaf or blind. Hashem gave us eyes and ears for a reason. And enjoying hearing a beautiful melody sung by a female doesn't make one impure or invariably lead to evil inclinations. I look at a beautiful sunset and appreciate Hashem giving us this. I eat a delicious fruit and I thank Hashem for it. I hear a beautiful song and I thank Hashem for allowing the song to be written and for me to hear it. And that's true if a man or a woman is singing it.

Is it ok for me to listen to Frank Sinatra ?  Or maybe that'll make me gay ?

It is blessed that you enjoy all these things. Do you make a Bracha on the food before you eat it? We {Jews} should be making at least 100 blessings a day. I say blessings each day when I see beautiful mountains or the sea shore. I say blessings when I smell wonderful food. There are many things to enjoy and they all point to Hashem as the source.

But to say that YOU are better than the rabbis is a bit chutzpahdik. The more righteous a person is the more he struggles with his yetzer hara. So you think you are safe and it is OK for you, that is your decision, but one I will consider un-wise.

P.S: I have heard, seen, tasted, and done just about every transgression and now I want to live the life on the path {derech}... In order to do so I must control what I look at and what I think about.

Each person should have the freedom of choice as to pursue thier personal spirtual life. In some cultures it might not be deemed a problem for males to listen to a female singing. However, for observent Jews this is simply not premited.

This type of situation should not be critisied by others but should be encouraged so that nobody will fall into sin as defined by thier religon.