Author Topic: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians  (Read 5249 times)

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Offline Manch

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New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« on: March 27, 2007, 01:26:04 PM »
NEW YORK - A Conservative Jewish seminary in New York has agreed to admit gays and lesbians who want to become rabbis, but declined to take a stand on whether rabbis should officiate at same-sex unions.

The Jewish Theological Seminary announced its decision on Monday, more than three months after the Rabbinical Assembly's Committee on Jewish Law and Standards authorized the ordination of gays and lesbians.
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What is a Jewish seminary?
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Offline Manch

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 02:37:13 PM »
Is it the same thing as Yeshiva for orthodox?
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 05:09:01 PM »
"..admit gays and lesbians who want to become rabbis"

Wow, that is ludacris, the whole concept contradicts itself. For one thing women can't be rabbis, secondly it is spelled out that being gay is a sin. So neither of these groups of people can possibly become rabbis, the lesbians twice over!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 05:17:14 PM by NewYorker »
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Offline jdl4ever

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 05:10:57 PM »
All of those Jews who said "conservative is not as bad as reform" now see that they are wrong.  We knew it all along. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2007, 05:37:47 PM »


Well my family is Sepharadic Conservative, and our temple would never stand for such a thing.  ::)
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Offline jdl4ever

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2007, 05:42:41 PM »
What?  There is no such thing as sephardic conservative.  Conservative is an Ashkenazi offshoot.  Sephardim are either religious or not as far as I know and have no offshoots.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2007, 08:24:35 PM »

What?  There is no such thing as sephardic conservative.  Conservative is an Ashkenazi offshoot.  Sephardim are either religious or not as far as I know and have no offshoots.

Well, that's what my dad used to tell me when I asked as a kid, he said we were Sepharadic Conservative, english was his second language so maybe something got lost in translation, what you consider Conservative and what my dad did might be totally different, and from what I'm reading here that looks like the case.

Long story short, I once went to a Bar mitzvah that had a reformed service, I couldn't believe it, they might as well have been Christian Baptist, for one thing, I didn't hear a word of hebrew, the whole thing was in english, LOL, they even had organ music like the Christians!  To contrast, when I'd to go to the Sephardic services you'd never hear a word of english, it's all in hebrew.
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Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 06:32:17 AM »
"..admit gays and lesbians who want to become rabbis"

Wow, that is ludacris, the whole concept contradicts itself. For one thing women can't be rabbis, secondly it is spelled out that being gay is a sin. So neither of these groups of people can possibly become rabbis, the lesbians twice over!


The Conservative Movement began allowing women to become rabbis during the last couple decades.

What does the Torah and halakah say specifically about women and rabbis?  I know that the Torah and halakah prohibits men and women from wearing each others clothing.  From time to time, women wear a tallis to make a "political statement." 

« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 07:33:20 AM by RationalThought110 »

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 07:50:26 AM »
NEW YORK - A Conservative Jewish seminary in New York has agreed to admit gays and lesbians who want to become rabbis, but declined to take a stand on whether rabbis should officiate at same-sex unions.

The Jewish Theological Seminary announced its decision on Monday, more than three months after the Rabbinical Assembly's Committee on Jewish Law and Standards authorized the ordination of gays and lesbians.
[/size]

What is a Jewish seminary?


Notice that they have a committee that just makes up its own laws regardless of what The Torah says. What morons.




They claim that they "interpret" the Torah and halakah, making themselves seem like a judicial system for Judaism.  However, by passing a third teshuvah at their December meeting (the first two Teshuvah maintain the prohibitions for homosexual rabbis, unions and sexual relations), they "legislated" their own law. 


Here is a well-written article that explained the situation a couple weeks before the vote took place.  It discusses what would be illogical:  http://www.uscj.org/The_Conservative_Mov7074.html


Here's an excerpt: 

       "If even a limited range of homosexual conduct is declared permissible, rabbinic ordination could not be denied homosexual candidates, whose behavior would be consistent with halachah as understood by the Conservative movement.

Conversely, if homosexual activity is ruled no obstacle to rabbinic ordination, the permissibility of the full range of homosexual conduct (regardless of any theoretical limitations on which halachic sanction might be conditioned) will be inferred, as rabbis serve as exemplars of Jewish piety and halachic observance. So, too, the ritual celebration of homosexual unions would follow inexorably from ordination of sexually active homosexuals: How could a community’s rabbi – charged among other duties with solemnizing marriages – be engaged in a romantic relationship ineligible for sanctification?

Similarly, should the Law Committee sanction same-sex marriage or commitment ceremonies, the permissibility of homosexual conduct would be inferred, for how can Jewish law sanctify the forbidden? Again, the presumed right to rabbinic ordination would follow, as no violation of Jewish law would be apparent.

If change is approved, only sweeping change will be possible. The halachic changes proposed are so extraordinary in scope that they effectively exceed the authority of the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards. The committee is intended as an advisory and interpretive resource, charged with the enlightened application of Jewish law already in existence. It is not a legislative body, entitled to enact new law in accordance with its own vision. Minimally, the proposed changes represent abrogation of long-established laws governing foundational areas of Jewish family life and sexuality."


Read the entire article though. 


The rabbis on the committee who approved of the third teshuvah admitted later that the Torah and halakah prohibit homosexual relations.  They know that people in a union will not abstain from
sexual relations. They know it's wrong but the rabbis who
approved of same-sex marriage are pretending that there won't
be sexual relations in the marriage.  They're also in denial because they know homosexual rabbis would engage in homosexual behavior--which clearly is a violation. 

Offline judeanoncapta

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 10:28:07 AM »
Whatever.

Conservative Jews stopped caring about the Torah a long time ago.
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Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 06:13:31 PM »
Liberal fools insist that homosexual marriage (which will include homosexual sexual relations) doesn't violate the Torah and Judaism.  They say the same for gay rabbis.  Could some of you either prove me wrong or prove the liberal fools wrong? 

Offline Zionist Revolutionary

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 06:48:57 PM »
Conservative Jews stopped caring never cared about the Torah a long time ago.

The quote is now fixed.

Offline tonycali99

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 06:52:21 PM »
i dont hate gay's but i think this is a bad idea!

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 08:22:48 PM »
Conservative Jews stopped caring never cared about the Torah a long time ago.

The quote is now fixed.


Up until a few decades ago, the entire movement was very traditional in terms of rabbis, minyans, etc. 

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2007, 12:44:27 AM »
THAT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE NEAR'S FAR ENOUGH!

THOSE QUEERS SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT! TO BRING BARNYARD ANIMALS LIKE GOATS, CHICKENS, MUSKRATS, OR ANY OTHER THING THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SEX WITH INTO THEIR YESHIVAH DORM ROOMS!

ONLY THEN!  WILL THEY BE ABLE TO FULLY ENJOY "THE DIVERSITY"!

SOON...THE GAY, LESBIAN, BISEXUAL, TRANSGENDER, TRANSEXUAL,  CUD-CHEWING, AND A NEGRO THROWN IN FOR GOOD MEASURE JEWISH RABBINICAL STUDENT DIVERSITY UNION!


Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2007, 09:19:43 PM »
Someone help my argument that gay rabbis violate the Torah.  What is it say about rabbis?

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2007, 09:33:25 PM »
I think I'm right in saying that under strict Torah law homosexuals are to be put to death...

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2007, 10:41:16 PM »
Re:  "...I think I'm right in saying that under strict Torah law homosexuals are to be put to death..."

The rabbis of the Talmud discussing such matters offer that the sentence "...they shall be put to death..." can refer to the fact that Ha'Shem will extinguish their immortal souls; as opposed to the idea that man must end their lives.

Torah also states that when Moshe appointed Judges to rule over Israel, he instructed them that they were to apply and interpret the law "...according to each generation...".  Again, Talmudic scholars explain the passage to mean that because each and every generation differs from its parents, and because each new generation finds a world in constant flux and living in conditions far different than those of the wandering Israelites; judges must apply wisdom and understanding in their decisions.  They state very clearly that "for an eye...eye; for a tooth...tooth" is meant to mean a compensation of money and/or services equivalent to the hardship caused one who has been injured.  The laws governing execution of a criminal are so strict that the person who is the eyewitness to a murder is obliged to personally "cast the first stone", and circumstantial evidence can not be used to convict one of murder.  Manslaughter without premeditation allows the perpetrator to retreat to certain cities or towns where they are granted permanent asylum and refuge from retribution or prosecution.
Quite an advanced system of justice, from a people with not only brains, but also hearts.
(in actual fact, the ancient Israelites and other peoples felt that the correct site for feelings and emotions was the liver; not the heart!)

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2007, 10:44:38 PM »
If it's up to each generation, are you claiming that homosexual behavior should be considered acceptable? 

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2007, 12:30:01 AM »
Re:  "...If it's up to each generation, are you claiming that homosexual behavior should be considered acceptable?..."

No.

I'm only saying there is a sound Torah rationale for why we don't carry out summary executions on them today.

Let's face it:  Were we to carry out Torah in the strictest sense today, we 'd be killing as many people as do the Taliban.

I've the feeling that were we suddenly thrust face-to-face with our ancient ancestors, neither group would recognize the other; to the extent that our lifestyles, customs, and laws changed over the last 2000 years. 

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2007, 01:13:56 AM »
Re:  "...Someone help my argument that gay rabbis violate the Torah..."

The very idea is a terrible abomination.

It absolutely can not be allowed.

Same goes for having women rabbis.

Metaphysics, particularly Torah metaphysics, is very heavy duty stuff, and such abberant behaviors are far outside the realm of possibilities.

The male characteristics and powers are separate from those of the female.

Exactly as in electronics a "male plug" mates only with a "female plug", so too do different sexes require their opposites to be a complete whole.

I don't necessarily agree with executing those who attempt to force abnormality upon us; but I've no problems whatsoever with arresting them, excommunicating them, and exiling them to a town called "Queersville".

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: New York Jewish seminary will allow gays, lesbians
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2007, 01:47:56 AM »
Re:  "...Someone help my argument that gay rabbis violate the Torah..."

The very idea is a terrible abomination.

It absolutely can not be allowed.

Same goes for having women rabbis.

Metaphysics, particularly Torah metaphysics, is very heavy duty stuff, and such abberant behaviors are far outside the realm of possibilities.

The male characteristics and powers are separate from those of the female.

Exactly as in electronics a "male plug" mates only with a "female plug", so too do different sexes require their opposites to be a complete whole.

I don't necessarily agree with executing those who attempt to force abnormality upon us; but I've no problems whatsoever with arresting them, excommunicating them, and exiling them to a town called "Queersville".


What do you mean by the metaphysics of Torah? 

Feminists who bring their agenda to Judaism, believe that they should be allowed to do anything that men do. 


Is the electronics an analogy of how men and women are meant to be together, nothing to do with rabbis?