Author Topic: Nationalized Healthcare...  (Read 2390 times)

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Offline Americanhero1

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Nationalized Healthcare...
« on: May 21, 2009, 12:11:23 PM »
Everything the Government touches is a DISASTER and now you want to put them in charge of your healthcare???

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2009, 03:56:37 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?

Offline nessuno

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2009, 07:50:38 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?
I can only speak from my own experience.
The wait time has decreased to minutes in our local emergency departments.
I've visited the community hospital and the level 1 trauma center with my dad several times in the past few years.
Each time he was triaged into the ED within minutes...whether it was a major or minor crisis.
We live in a very dense area, so I would expect the wait time to be longer.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2009, 08:14:02 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?
I can only speak from my own experience.
The wait time has decreased to minutes in our local emergency departments.
I've visited the community hospital and the level 1 trauma center with my dad several times in the past few years.
Each time he was triaged into the ED within minutes...whether it was a major or minor crisis.
We live in a very dense area, so I would expect the wait time to be longer.

That's amazing to me.  Here in the greater Toronto area, it is very rare to go to an emergency room and see a doctor in less than five hours.  Some nurses have told me that at times, patients have waited over 24 hours to be seen.

Also, if your doctor refers you to a specialist, it will be at least a month before you can get it to see him.

So, let me paint you a picture of our nationalized health care system.

One day you notice that you have a lump of some kind in your abdomen and it hurts.  So you call your family doctor to make an appointment.  He can't see you for three weeks.  You can go to a walk in clinic, but your doctor's office discourages that, so you decide to wait. 

You see your doctor three weeks later, and he refers you to get an ultrasound.  You ask him if you should get a ct scan as well, but he says no (they are too expensive, you see).  So you wait for a month to get an ultrasound and you see your doctor two weeks later.  He tells you that the ultrasound was inconclusive and that he's like to send you for a barium xray and a barium enema.  It's another month before you get these tests.

You go for the tests and wait two weeks to see your doctor again.  He guesses that you have Chrone's disease.  He sets up more tests for a month from now.  Meanwhile the pain in your abdomen is tremendous.  You stop eating because you can't go to the bathroom and chances are you will throw up after eating.  Meanwhile, you have faith in your doctor and hope that the tests he's booked for you will help him once and for all get to the bottom of your problem.

About a week later, you can't stand it anymore.  The pain is too great and you are throwing up constantly from it.  So you go to the emergency room and wait for six hours to finally get seen.  You are admitted to the hospital.  They give you all of the tests you can imagine and they have the results for you five days later.  You have lymphoma and will have to spend the next 8 months in the hospital, undergoing chemotherapy, surguries, and every type of horror.

But they save you.  Miraculously.  If you had been diagnosed properly 3 months ago, you would have been spared much of this ordeal.  But you get out of the hospital.  You're not strong and you are prone to infections.  Furthermore, the surgeries you had have caused scar tissue in your intestines, and this causes obstructions from time to time.  So you have to go back to the hospital every now and then.

You would like to go to the states for medical procedures, but that's frowned upon.  So you stay in Canada and take your socialized medicine.  And pray that nothing happens to you too quickly or too unexpectedly.

Offline Serbian Canadian

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2009, 08:21:55 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?
I can only speak from my own experience.
The wait time has decreased to minutes in our local emergency departments.
I've visited the community hospital and the level 1 trauma center with my dad several times in the past few years.
Each time he was triaged into the ED within minutes...whether it was a major or minor crisis.
We live in a very dense area, so I would expect the wait time to be longer.

That's amazing to me.  Here in the greater Toronto area, it is very rare to go to an emergency room and see a doctor in less than five hours.  Some nurses have told me that at times, patients have waited over 24 hours to be seen.

Also, if your doctor refers you to a specialist, it will be at least a month before you can get it to see him.

So, let me paint you a picture of our nationalized health care system.

One day you notice that you have a lump of some kind in your abdomen and it hurts.  So you call your family doctor to make an appointment.  He can't see you for three weeks.  You can go to a walk in clinic, but your doctor's office discourages that, so you decide to wait. 

You see your doctor three weeks later, and he refers you to get an ultrasound.  You ask him if you should get a ct scan as well, but he says no (they are too expensive, you see).  So you wait for a month to get an ultrasound and you see your doctor two weeks later.  He tells you that the ultrasound was inconclusive and that he's like to send you for a barium xray and a barium enema.  It's another month before you get these tests.

You go for the tests and wait two weeks to see your doctor again.  He guesses that you have Chrone's disease.  He sets up more tests for a month from now.  Meanwhile the pain in your abdomen is tremendous.  You stop eating because you can't go to the bathroom and chances are you will throw up after eating.  Meanwhile, you have faith in your doctor and hope that the tests he's booked for you will help him once and for all get to the bottom of your problem.

About a week later, you can't stand it anymore.  The pain is too great and you are throwing up constantly from it.  So you go to the emergency room and wait for six hours to finally get seen.  You are admitted to the hospital.  They give you all of the tests you can imagine and they have the results for you five days later.  You have lymphoma and will have to spend the next 8 months in the hospital, undergoing chemotherapy, surguries, and every type of horror.

But they save you.  Miraculously.  If you had been diagnosed properly 3 months ago, you would have been spared much of this ordeal.  But you get out of the hospital.  You're not strong and you are prone to infections.  Furthermore, the surgeries you had have caused scar tissue in your intestines, and this causes obstructions from time to time.  So you have to go back to the hospital every now and then.

You would like to go to the states for medical procedures, but that's frowned upon.  So you stay in Canada and take your socialized medicine.  And pray that nothing happens to you too quickly or too unexpectedly.

WOW.

Living in Toronto and having witnessed an extremely similiar situation with a family member, I can safely say you just described the situation here perfectly. That was the best post I've read in a long time.

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2009, 08:27:43 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?
I can only speak from my own experience.
The wait time has decreased to minutes in our local emergency departments.
I've visited the community hospital and the level 1 trauma center with my dad several times in the past few years.
Each time he was triaged into the ED within minutes...whether it was a major or minor crisis.
We live in a very dense area, so I would expect the wait time to be longer.

That's amazing to me.  Here in the greater Toronto area, it is very rare to go to an emergency room and see a doctor in less than five hours.  Some nurses have told me that at times, patients have waited over 24 hours to be seen.

Also, if your doctor refers you to a specialist, it will be at least a month before you can get it to see him.

So, let me paint you a picture of our nationalized health care system.

One day you notice that you have a lump of some kind in your abdomen and it hurts.  So you call your family doctor to make an appointment.  He can't see you for three weeks.  You can go to a walk in clinic, but your doctor's office discourages that, so you decide to wait. 

You see your doctor three weeks later, and he refers you to get an ultrasound.  You ask him if you should get a ct scan as well, but he says no (they are too expensive, you see).  So you wait for a month to get an ultrasound and you see your doctor two weeks later.  He tells you that the ultrasound was inconclusive and that he's like to send you for a barium xray and a barium enema.  It's another month before you get these tests.

You go for the tests and wait two weeks to see your doctor again.  He guesses that you have Chrone's disease.  He sets up more tests for a month from now.  Meanwhile the pain in your abdomen is tremendous.  You stop eating because you can't go to the bathroom and chances are you will throw up after eating.  Meanwhile, you have faith in your doctor and hope that the tests he's booked for you will help him once and for all get to the bottom of your problem.

About a week later, you can't stand it anymore.  The pain is too great and you are throwing up constantly from it.  So you go to the emergency room and wait for six hours to finally get seen.  You are admitted to the hospital.  They give you all of the tests you can imagine and they have the results for you five days later.  You have lymphoma and will have to spend the next 8 months in the hospital, undergoing chemotherapy, surguries, and every type of horror.

But they save you.  Miraculously.  If you had been diagnosed properly 3 months ago, you would have been spared much of this ordeal.  But you get out of the hospital.  You're not strong and you are prone to infections.  Furthermore, the surgeries you had have caused scar tissue in your intestines, and this causes obstructions from time to time.  So you have to go back to the hospital every now and then.

You would like to go to the states for medical procedures, but that's frowned upon.  So you stay in Canada and take your socialized medicine.  And pray that nothing happens to you too quickly or too unexpectedly.

WOW.

Living in Toronto and having witnessed an extremely similiar situation with a family member, I can safely say you just described the situation here perfectly. That was the best post I've read in a long time.

Thanks Serbian Canadian.  This is exactly what happened to me 10 years ago.

Offline Abben

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2009, 08:45:13 PM »
How long is an average waiting time in an emergency waiting room in America?
I can only speak from my own experience.
The wait time has decreased to minutes in our local emergency departments.
I've visited the community hospital and the level 1 trauma center with my dad several times in the past few years.
Each time he was triaged into the ED within minutes...whether it was a major or minor crisis.
We live in a very dense area, so I would expect the wait time to be longer.

That's amazing to me.  Here in the greater Toronto area, it is very rare to go to an emergency room and see a doctor in less than five hours.  Some nurses have told me that at times, patients have waited over 24 hours to be seen.

Also, if your doctor refers you to a specialist, it will be at least a month before you can get it to see him.

So, let me paint you a picture of our nationalized health care system.

One day you notice that you have a lump of some kind in your abdomen and it hurts.  So you call your family doctor to make an appointment.  He can't see you for three weeks.  You can go to a walk in clinic, but your doctor's office discourages that, so you decide to wait. 

You see your doctor three weeks later, and he refers you to get an ultrasound.  You ask him if you should get a ct scan as well, but he says no (they are too expensive, you see).  So you wait for a month to get an ultrasound and you see your doctor two weeks later.  He tells you that the ultrasound was inconclusive and that he's like to send you for a barium xray and a barium enema.  It's another month before you get these tests.

You go for the tests and wait two weeks to see your doctor again.  He guesses that you have Chrone's disease.  He sets up more tests for a month from now.  Meanwhile the pain in your abdomen is tremendous.  You stop eating because you can't go to the bathroom and chances are you will throw up after eating.  Meanwhile, you have faith in your doctor and hope that the tests he's booked for you will help him once and for all get to the bottom of your problem.

About a week later, you can't stand it anymore.  The pain is too great and you are throwing up constantly from it.  So you go to the emergency room and wait for six hours to finally get seen.  You are admitted to the hospital.  They give you all of the tests you can imagine and they have the results for you five days later.  You have lymphoma and will have to spend the next 8 months in the hospital, undergoing chemotherapy, surguries, and every type of horror.

But they save you.  Miraculously.  If you had been diagnosed properly 3 months ago, you would have been spared much of this ordeal.  But you get out of the hospital.  You're not strong and you are prone to infections.  Furthermore, the surgeries you had have caused scar tissue in your intestines, and this causes obstructions from time to time.  So you have to go back to the hospital every now and then.

You would like to go to the states for medical procedures, but that's frowned upon.  So you stay in Canada and take your socialized medicine.  And pray that nothing happens to you too quickly or too unexpectedly.

After reading this if obama or anyone wants nationalized health care they are truly insane!

Offline briann

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2009, 09:00:58 PM »
Very few countries have TRUE nationalized health care, where they OUTLAW privatized healthcare... but it is an absolute nightmare.  This is why so many Canadians on the border pay out of their own pockets to use American private health care insurance... rather than use their own FREE health care.

Our public health care system is horrific.  I would only support universal health care, if it was completely privatized.

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2009, 09:16:03 PM »
Very few countries have TRUE nationalized health care, where they OUTLAW privatized healthcare... but it is an absolute nightmare.  This is why so many Canadians on the border pay out of their own pockets to use American private health care insurance... rather than use their own FREE health care.

Our public health care system is horrific.  I would only support universal health care, if it was completely privatized.


How could privatized health care be universal?  There is a problem with slow and sometimes sub-par care in a universal system, and there is a problem of not enough care for everyone in a privatized system.  I've been leaning towards some type of two-tiered system (or parallel system).

Offline nessuno

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2009, 09:35:39 PM »
I'm very sorry that happened to you Zachor.
I will pray for you to maintain good health.

Our system is far from perfect...A system where illegals sometimes receive better care then a U.S. citizen.

In my parents case, the insurance company has a huge hand in dictating the type and amount of healthcare they receive.  That doesn't always coincide with what their doctor deems they need, or what is customary.

I just know that I don't want government running the nation's healthcare.  What do they run well?

How about we stop doling out healthcare to illegals?  Maybe there will be more to spread around the people who really deserve and need it.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 11:16:33 PM »
I'm very sorry that happened to you Zachor.
I will pray for you to maintain good health.

Our system is far from perfect...A system where illegals sometimes receive better care then a U.S. citizen.

In my parents case, the insurance company has a huge hand in dictating the type and amount of healthcare they receive.  That doesn't always coincide with what their doctor deems they need, or what is customary.

I just know that I don't want government running the nation's healthcare.  What do they run well?

How about we stop doling out healthcare to illegals?  Maybe there will be more to spread around the people who really deserve and need it.


Hi Bullcat, at the Kaiser permanente emergency room you see mostly illegal aliens. The wait is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours.
I saw a Liberal on Fox news and he was whining about how California needs billions to hold it over for a year and I was so furious
because it is people like him that bankrupt our State to begin with. The liberals fought hard to keep the flow of Illegal Aliens
coming in, and what is worse they fought to give them every benefit an American citizen is entitled to.
So the very Liberals who have destroyed this State, are now asking for a bailout! The worse part of this whole thing is Liberals
will never learn. I can envision them bankrupting our State again after a financial recovery, if that even happens.
Insanity is out of control in our Country...I have never seen it this bad.


                                                                          Shalom - Dox

Offline briann

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 11:32:56 PM »
Very few countries have TRUE nationalized health care, where they OUTLAW privatized healthcare... but it is an absolute nightmare.  This is why so many Canadians on the border pay out of their own pockets to use American private health care insurance... rather than use their own FREE health care.

Our public health care system is horrific.  I would only support universal health care, if it was completely privatized.


How could privatized health care be universal?  There is a problem with slow and sometimes sub-par care in a universal system, and there is a problem of not enough care for everyone in a privatized system.  I've been leaning towards some type of two-tiered system (or parallel system).

Universal does NOT mean public (socialized).   This is a BIG misconception. Universal simply means that everyone has medical coverage that is subsidized by taxpayers.... it doesnt say that the coverage has to be socialized or privatized.

You CAN have universal education without public schools (using vouchers for private).  and you CAN have universal education WITHOUT public hospitals... ie taxpayer funded vouchers for private insurance.

The unfortunate thing is that those who want universal healthcare are typically leftists who support price-caps and socialized medicine...(IE Hillary, Obama).. and this will destroy medicine for the rest of us.

Offline briann

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 11:34:09 PM »
I'm very sorry that happened to you Zachor.
I will pray for you to maintain good health.

Our system is far from perfect...A system where illegals sometimes receive better care then a U.S. citizen.

In my parents case, the insurance company has a huge hand in dictating the type and amount of healthcare they receive.  That doesn't always coincide with what their doctor deems they need, or what is customary.

I just know that I don't want government running the nation's healthcare.  What do they run well?

How about we stop doling out healthcare to illegals?  Maybe there will be more to spread around the people who really deserve and need it.


Hi Bullcat, at the Kaiser permanente emergency room you see mostly illegal aliens. The wait is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours.
I saw a Liberal on Fox news and he was whining about how California needs billions to hold it over for a year and I was so furious
because it is people like him that bankrupt our State to begin with. The liberals fought hard to keep the flow of Illegal Aliens
coming in, and what is worse they fought to give them every benefit an American citizen is entitled to.
So the very Liberals who have destroyed this State, are now asking for a bailout! The worse part of this whole thing is Liberals
will never learn. I can envision them bankrupting our State again after a financial recovery, if that even happens.
Insanity is out of control in our Country...I have never seen it this bad.


                                                                          Shalom - Dox

Yes, I had a similar experience with Kaiser emergency.... but thats still 10x better than going to a state hospital.

Offline Secularbeliever

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2009, 12:45:43 AM »
American medicine is far from perfect but I have had shoulder pain.  I saw my Doctor about it last Tuesday.  Since it had not improved to that point he ordered an MRI.  I got a call last Friday and it was done on Monday.  I saw the orthopedist today and he had the results.  I would probably be six months away from any resolution in Canada.
We all need to pray for Barack Obama, may the Lord provide him a safe move back to Chicago in January 2,013.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2009, 05:11:35 AM »
American medicine is far from perfect but I have had shoulder pain.  I saw my Doctor about it last Tuesday.  Since it had not improved to that point he ordered an MRI.  I got a call last Friday and it was done on Monday.  I saw the orthopedist today and he had the results.  I would probably be six months away from any resolution in Canada.
You must have very good coverage.  That is the way it should work all the time.  My Mom had to wait over a year to receive a treatment for her Rhuematoid Arthritis.  We had to find a doctor, in her plan, who would do the leg work to get it approved.  My Dad worked at least two jobs his whole life.  Payed into the system.  He should get the gold standard of healthcare in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 05:42:28 AM by bullcat3 »
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Nationalized Healthcare...
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2009, 05:23:42 AM »

I'm very sorry that happened to you Zachor.
I will pray for you to maintain good health.

Our system is far from perfect...A system where illegals sometimes receive better care then a U.S. citizen.

In my parents case, the insurance company has a huge hand in dictating the type and amount of healthcare they receive.  That doesn't always coincide with what their doctor deems they need, or what is customary.

I just know that I don't want government running the nation's healthcare.  What do they run well?

How about we stop doling out healthcare to illegals?  Maybe there will be more to spread around the people who really deserve and need it.


Hi Bullcat, at the Kaiser permanente emergency room you see mostly illegal aliens. The wait is anywhere from 2 to 4 hours.
I saw a Liberal on Fox news and he was whining about how California needs billions to hold it over for a year and I was so furious
because it is people like him that bankrupt our State to begin with. The liberals fought hard to keep the flow of Illegal Aliens
coming in, and what is worse they fought to give them every benefit an American citizen is entitled to.
So the very Liberals who have destroyed this State, are now asking for a bailout! The worse part of this whole thing is Liberals
will never learn. I can envision them bankrupting our State again after a financial recovery, if that even happens.
Insanity is out of control in our Country...I have never seen it this bad.


                                                                          Shalom - Dox
It's disgusting.
The sad truth is...No one, on either side of the aisle wants to stem the flow of illegals into our country.
They are over burdening our healthcare and our schools.  They are making us ill.  Just think about things like Swine Flu and the resurgence of TB.  We have to stop feeling sorry for them.  Most Americans feel sympathetic torwards the children.
We need to clean house in the upcoming elections.  Let's just hope some good candidates come out of the woodwork.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.