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truth about ISLAM
Chughtai:
Well Hyperion! I may not disagree to what you have said mostly. The feeling of self righteousness is very strong. Masses are first shown a direction then they are told that whatever they are thinking is justified religiously and morally. Never have been they told to consider things on the basics of logic or rationale. What I might be saying would seem true to you for what I or muslim are in this state but please for once try to justify yourself on these grounds. I am not at all trying to blame or accuse you, I am no one to do that. Its between you and God. I know that you people have been mistreated over the time. There must be something wrong so harm find its way to you. There are much smaller and weaker minorities in the world and they are not bothered as you guys.
In history of Islam there are a number of times when jewish tried harming islam and our prophet and followers but I am not one of them to avenge that from you or anyone. I am not born at that time. We are taught history and somehow these sentiments develop. But for the last 2 decades people around me are more aware. They know that education is a good tool for earning living as well as mind control by a small group of people manipulating the thoughts of masses.
All said when I try to get myself neutral and try to find out the facts myself I see Jewish people doing what you are doing here. I know that you guys are angry and you have all the right to be, but my elders are taught to be angry with you willing or unwillingly. Now with all this hatred at both sides what are we achieving ? If something positive is coming out of it then we can continue to do this. I dont care what my neighbor is doing as long as I am not disturbed with that. Most of the time I ignore it even coz he is my neighbor.
If I come here and share stories of all the bad things that my neighbor has been doing repeatedly and afew other neighbors start listening to me and quoting their experiences with that man, surly there would come a time when each one of us would want to hurt him.
I dont care what my elders thought or did, but i do care about what I would be doing in this time given to me here. I would surly try to minimize these differences. You believe your own philosophy and i would believe my own and there are enough space on this planet and the system of Allah SBWT to hold many such more.
What is right is right and whats wrong is wrong and that comes as the basic human instinct. Its hard coded and no one could change that but people have devised ways to hide that and brainwash people. Deep down we are all the same. The smell of air would be as refreshing to you as it would be to me but if one starts to disagree and likes better the smell of some fragrance in the air, should we resort to hating that person just coz he dosent think like me.
What I meant in the posts above is that "it always takes 2 to tango" sorry i couldnt come up with some other proverb as english is not my mother tongue. I saw some of you making fun of the poor guy who tried to express his feelings or to show his sympathy in whatever manner he could. You guys are no different than islamist radicals who have always gone after the words and not the thought. You didnt bother to notice the sentiments behind his words. Its shameful, we all have to change. Killing to me is not simply taking life of a person. You can kill a person by taking his identity or killing his thoughts. The poor injured guy comes here and you guys tried to finish him off. Well how would he react!! think logically. Would he ever again in his life try to put forward a hand of friendship towards you people. We mock you and you mock us by putting usama's pict on pig or different images or words I see here. In the part of the world I live in we dont even like usama. My servant who is illiterate would be the first person to hand him over to authorities if he ever sees him. It does not worries me at all to see the image but it shows the same hatred I am talking about for a whole majority of muslims that we cannot just kill but have to be made aware of the basic realities. I see you guys doing your part.
hyperion:
"What I meant in the posts above is that "it always takes 2 to tango""
Two to tango? What do you mean? They attack civilians, we attack back their military and we are as bad as them? NO Jews hurl firebombs at muslim houses both in Hungary and in the Netherlands. The man whose house was burned down actually PROTECTED the rights of muslims in spite of these attacks. Think logically and not in a biased way. The majority of Jews are against ANY discrimination, while I had many muslim friends all of whom agree with the actions against Israeli and American civilians. Our far right only wants to expel muslims and not annihilate them like Hamas, Al-Quaeda and the rest want to annihilate Jews. So do not distort the facts please.
And what about the muslims' hate of the Zionist state? I have never heard about a muslim acknowledging our right to existence.
Chughtai:
What I saw happening in Lebanon by Israel Army was some what different from what you are saying here. You want me to be logical here ! Why would attack and burn the house of person who protect my rights!! Do I like living with less rights? Obviously not.
I am not trying to distort any facts here I am trying to get facts. You say "I have never heard about a muslim acknowledging our right to existence." Pakistan has accepted Israel's existence and it comprises of about 160 million muslims. Now should i say that you are trying to distort the facts here! No i wont say that, we are very far from the facts of our co-existence. Just trying to make an effort if not for many than for myself and my children to reduce these differences.
In Quran there is a whole chapter named Buni Israel. If my Allah SBWT identifies you as a nation who am I to take this right away from you.
hyperion:
I'm talking about regular muslims there. Do regular muslims support the Zionist state or not? In my experience not. What a government does is usually not in tune with its people want. Those are strategic movements. Can you show us a muslim grassroots organization that stands up for the right of Israel and Jews? That would be convincing.
"You want me to be logical here ! Why would attack and burn the house of person who protect my rights!! Do I like living with less rights? Obviously not. "
You would do it because you are anti-semitic and discriminate and you have prejudices. Yes muslims usually discriminate Jews. When I was not attacked for my Star of David I was treated like sh*t or an animal.
"What I saw happening in Lebanon by Israel Army was some what different from what you are saying here."
Well, atrocities happen in war, but IDF does not purposefully attack civilians even if those civilians elected Hamas to kill Israeli civilians. Sometimes the boys get mad because of that and there are civilian casualties on your side too. I oppose these things. Because Torah teaches us that if you treat your fellow humans well and fulfill your obligation to G-d, you get your reward, regardless of your religion race etc. In fact Judaism is the only religion of the three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) that recognizes believers and non-believers as equals and does not condemn people of other faith. It is a fact. Hamas, Fatah, Al Quade deliberately attack civilians. While IDF not.
And yes major Jewish organizations like the European Jewish Organization of Students and Anti-Defamation League actually campaigns FOR the Rigths of European muslims even if many of us get attacked.
Spectator:
--- Quote from: Chughtai on February 09, 2010, 03:12:41 AM ---Pakistan has accepted Israel's existence and it comprises of about 160 million muslims.
--- End quote ---
Pakistan has no embassy in Israel, and no Pakistani leader ever said that the State of Israel has the right to exist.
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