Jizya

[msd]

I was reading this page http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9801&CATE=1426 and noticed some deception. At the top it says,

"Does the koran teach to kill, tax or convert infidels as a general principle?

The short answer is no."

But then later in the article it writes:

"Even as Islam spread beyond the borders of Arabia into the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires (Syria and Persia), non-Muslims were accorded certain rights. If they accepted the authority of the new Islamic government, then treaties were concluded and the non-Muslims paid a special tax, called a jizya."

!

Yet it goes on to say (in the same paragraph):

The options were not convert, die, or pay the tax. Instead, non-Muslims were allowed to practice their own religions and maintain their own institutions. In lieu of converting to Islam, they paid the jizya, or poll tax.

Makes no sense!


(Also it says that the Qur'an says this:

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah (G-d) and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, 2:62)

which is interesting. I wonder if it can be used in argument against Islamists who hate Christians and Jews? Probably not... )

[Zelhar]

"Even as Islam spread beyond the borders of Arabia into the Byzantine and Sassanid Empires (Syria and Persia), non-Muslims were accorded certain rights. If they accepted the authority of the new Islamic government, then treaties were concluded and the non-Muslims paid a special tax, called a jizya."

In Arabia proper, Islam had only one choice to offer- convert or die. And indeed they annihilated the non-muslims from Arabia to the last. When they spread out of Arabia they allowed non-muslims to live under sever civil and religious repression. That included heavy tax, inequality by law, forbidding of building new churches/synagogues,  and outright attacks and robbery.

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah (G-d) and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an, 2:62)

There are many occurrences in the Quran of this kind of verse and in some of them it says something like those who accept all of the books and the prophets are good and those who only accept part of the book (meaning Jews and Christians who did not acknowledged Muhammad as a prophet) are bad...

So it is my understanding that the Quran make a claim that one can be Jew/Christian and accept muhammad's prophesies because they supposedly are a continuation of his own faith.

[muppet]

msd

I wonder if it can be used in argument against Islamists who hate Christians and Jews? Probably not... )

I've personally tried to study/read the Qu'ran but had to get rid of it as it felt like standing on the edge of an abyss looking into madness. The longer you stand there looking the more you feel yourself being sucked into the maelstrom.

How can you even try to have a constructive cohesive argument against peoples who believe in  the pure hatred of such writings, even the more educated ones will try to baffle you. That book twists the mind.

These believers have sold their souls to the Devil, the Qu'ran I firmly believe is the handwork of the Devil.

[msd]

I've read about 90 pages and have mixed opinions on it so far. Some of it seems to be all right, while other parts are troubling. I'm not sure what I think of it yet.