Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

I'm troubled please help

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Raulmarrio2000:
Just for clarification. According to Jewish Law, a mamzer (generally trasnlated to English as "bastard") is someone born as a Jew (that is, from a Jewish mother) whose birth WITHOUT DOUBT IS the result of adultery or incest.
A Jew/ess whose father is unknown is NOT NECCESSARILY a mamzer, only that for practical reasons, since there is always a dim possiblity that his/her unknown father could be related to his mather (incest), the restrictions that apply to Mamzerim also apply to him or her. Mamzer is NOT a derogatory term and it only implies some restrictions regarding whom he/she is allowed to marry. 
That legal satus of "possible mamzer" only apply to living persons in order to decide whom he/she can marry, so the issue cannot apply to Jesus.
Regarding heresy, Judaism obviously says that anyone who disregards Torah or teaches something contrary to Halacha, is an heretic Jew. However a Rabbi would never say that Jesus was an heretic Jew since he does not believe in what the Gospels say about Jesus' teachings. If a Jew (based in what the Gospel say) decided that Jesus was an herectic Jew, then it would imply that that Jew believes in the Gospel (and Judaism forbids to use any religious book outside the Jewish Cannon). On the other side, if a Rabbi believed in the historicty of Jesus (through ant historical source outside the Gospel) he would never say whether he taught something herectic or not, since there are no non-religious records about what Jesus taught.
In conclusion, Judaism itself has nothing to say about Jesus, neither good nor bad. There is no Jewish dogma saying that he was a mamzer or an herectic, or even that he did or didn't exist. Judaism only says that G-d is One and He is not a man and Mashiach will be simply a man who will come in future to fullfill certain prophesies. The personal opinion of a Rav (providing that he is really a Rav, and not a Muslim imposer) reagarding the history of another religion is only that, an opinion.

muman613:
What he taught his disciples is considered heresy according to Jewish halacha. His teachings, that he is G-d is obviously a heretical idea. It violates the most basic principle that G-d is not corporeal. So I don't see how you consider it not heresy. I also have heard many Rabbis explain how Christianity is indeed idolatry and a violation of both Torah and the Noachide laws. It doesnt require studying their scriptures to know that this is the case.

Obviously Judaism doesn't spend much time discussing this religion, considering throughout history our people were oppressed at the hands of the church. What do you make of "Essau hates Isaac"? Or Edom is Rome is Christianity. And there is the halacha that christianity is idolatry.

We don't have any hatred for non-Jews but we must make sure that Jews do not become led astray by missionaries, as their religion targets Jews to convert. There are many good sites which refute the Christian myths and mistranslation.

There are many Christian ideas which are heretical from a Jewish standpoint. Of course it is only heretical for a Jew to hold these.

Raulmarrio2000:
Muman, the teachings of the Gospel are obviusly herectic according to the Jewish Law, and as you say, there are some opinons that they are also a violation of the Noahide Laws. But there is no Jewish Law ordering to believe Jesus existed or not, or to believe he taught what the Gospels say or not.
A Jew (and perhaps also a Noahide) is forbidden to accept the ideas of the Gospel, and if the Gospel is not reliable, then no Jew would use it to prove Jesus existed or taught this or that.

AsheDina:
Well, I am glad this one is over.
We ALL have this one thing in common.
We love G-d. Some people here are secular as well, but searching.
I love G-d, it is a battle of good over evil and G-ds team wins.
If you love the Great G-d of Israel, then you cant lose.

Chavak:

--- Quote from: muppet on June 02, 2009, 04:49:26 PM ---But the one thing that strikes me in the bible and that doesn't make sense.. If Jesus wasn't all that he was cracked up to be why did his Disciples and followers follow him to their deaths?
If he wasn't true and what he did wasn't true wouldn't it of been easier for others to save their own backsides, denounce him and live prosperous lives?
To me if a person is willing to forsake their own lives suffer much brutality and torture then there 'HAS' to be substance. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

--- End quote ---

That really isn't a relevant point. Millions of Jews have been killed over the last two thousand years rather than give up their faith. They went to their
death rather renounce G-d and Torah and accept another religion.

Does that therefore make Judaism the "correct" religion from your point of view?

Today Muslims kill themselves all the time in the name of their G-d and prophet and religion. Does this make Islam the true faith (G-d forbid)?

--- Quote ---The other take is that if it wasn't for Jesus then today there would be Judaism, Paganism and the other Paganism (Islam). There probably wouldn't be any Jews left because the West as we know it would either be Pagan believers or Islamic (Pagan) believers.
--- End quote ---
Judaism and Jews would be far better off....Millions of Jews who have been lost to Christian slaughter and forced conversion and expulsions (and I don't want to side track the discussion there, I am simply making a point) would be alive. Christians would not be out trying to convert Jews; Messianics would not be out trying to copy Judaism.

--- Quote ---Another HUGE downside to no Jesus would be why would Pagans feel a sense of responsibility or feeling to take in or seek justice for the wrongdoings against Jews.
--- End quote ---
I really don't understand this point at all. Do you think that people who are not Christians have no moral compass?

--- Quote ---The more I study about Jesus the more I see the overall importance of him coming into the World.

The more I seek him the more I respect and absolutely revere him.


--- End quote ---
That is all well and good, Jews in general have no issues with gentiles following the Christian faith...as long as it does not interfere with our beliefs and lives

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