Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Jewish hero convicted of murder
NeverMore:
jsullivan,
i must say that this is the great "misunderstanding evening" i ever had. you and davkakach seem not to understand what i say.
i totally agree with ALL you have said. i even created the terms of "practical" muslim and "formal" muslim, who actually isnt muslim.
the ONLY thing i oppose, and i think every human who defines himself as one who tries to be righteous would oppose, is killing REAL INNOCENTS. come on, i live here in Israel, you dont need to convince ME that Kahane was right, i know it myself. but i speak only about theoretical very very small question regarding about one person. i only say, that you cant be sure that among these people he has killed, there was'nt a true righteous man. i say, and i dont know, im only questioning it, that maybe one of the killed ones was against terror, against kuran agains BAD and for GOOD. you just cant know. thats all, and you and davkakach made an analogy of what i said about hese killed arabs and thought i mean it for all the arabs. I DONT!!! when will you understand what im trying to say.
in the case that one of them was completely righteous, i will never call this man a hero for killing them. if they all supported terror which by definition wants us all dead, then deal with them, ok. you get what i say? you turned me here to liberal, leftist, i will soon go vote for yossi beilin you probably think. no idea how you came to these opinions on me, accept from NOT UNDERSTANDING my intention when i question his "heroeness".
i dont take these "liberal accusations" as personal, its just VERY strange for me, being who i am ( and i see you brobably know me too little), to hear that after all, someone thinks im liberal.
what may be personal, jsullivan, is your first sentence :
--- Quote ---nevermore writes that all Muslims do not follow the murderous Koran
--- End quote ---
, and i dont know why would you spread lies on me if you dont have anything personal against me.
NeverMore:
--- Quote from: jsullivan on September 12, 2006, 03:51:36 PM ---
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
(and dont say that if they're muslims they cant be peaceful or something like that, because not all muslims follow what's written in the kuran, you know)
--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---
It's not a lie, nevermore. It's what you wrote.
--- End quote ---
compare this to what you wrote i said:
--- Quote ---nevermore writes that all Muslims do not follow the murderous Koran
--- End quote ---
i said not all muslims folow the kuran- these would be actually non muslims as you say, or only "formal" muslims as i said, while you quoted me "saying" that no muslim follows the kuran- clear difference, and i dont think anyone in the world would think what you quoted me "saying".
jsullivan:
If they call themselves Muslims, that means they want to identify with Mohammed and the Koran. It means they are willing to accept that monstrous Nazi religion. All of the Arabs killed by the great Jewish hero Asher Weisglas called themselves Muslims.
Do you condemn David Raziel, the first commander of the Irgun Tzvai Leumi, who blew up and killed many hundreds of Arab Muslim civilians to stop the Arab pogroms of the 1930s? Raziel never asked the Arab civilians if they agreed with the Muslim terrorists. He killed them because they are the enemy.
Do you condemn America and Britain for DELIBERATELY killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians in the bombing of Dresden during World War II?
Do you condemn America for dropping two atomic bombs on Japan in World War II killing many Japanese civilians?
What bothers me is that when a Jewish hero like Asher Weisglas is willing to sacrifice his life to save his fellow Jews, you do not view that as heroism. If that's not heroism, then Etzel and Lechi were not heroes because they also killed many Arab civilians before the 1948 War of Independence by bombing Jaffa and in Dir Yassin.
You're a good Jew, nevermore. On this issue, I think you're completely wrong but eventually you will see that we are right. ISRAEL CANNOT WIN ANY WAR AND CANNOT SURVIVE IF WE WORRY ABOUT KILLING ARAB CIVILIANS.
I have to go now. But don't take it personally. We do respect you, but we disagree with you. But I can see that you have a lot of common sense and so I think you will someday agree with us.
NeverMore:
hmm... thanks for the "good Jew" thing :)
its not that i'm disagreeing with you, i'm only raising questions. its hard for me, who obviously dont have the experience you have, to disagree with what you say.
i can only say it sits on my consciense, although i know it will help us win the war, i fully understand it. just when i hear of this sort of killing, (which i think is worse than people who die when standing near a bombed katiusha launcher) i cant avoid having these thoughts of mercy. like, someone suddenly decided to kill your cat because its the only way to get you out of the building you live in.. i dont know, something like this.
i dont think that i should battle this mercy out of me, because i really find it hard to think G-d wants all this killing, in the sort of what this guy did. again, seperate the "katiusha case" (and other similar to that) i mentioned here.
:)thanks for providing me with additional insight, though. it will surely make me think. :)
kahaneloyalist:
Everyone wants to have mercy i can tell you it causes me great pain to harm even evil people(doesnt stop me though) but what we must always remember are the words of the Ramban on misplaced kindness
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
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