Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Jewish hero convicted of murder
davkakach:
--- Quote ---being Jewish is first about being righteous. you mustnt hurt anyone (including animals) who dont want to hurt you
--- End quote ---
NO. Being Jewish is about being holy! "Kdoshim tihiyu li." (You shall be holy).
"Mamlechet Kohanim ve Goy Kadosh" (A kingdom of priests and a holy nation).
A Jew accomplishes this by submitting himself to God, cancelling his ego, performing Mitzva
in the spirit of the Jewish Idea. I'm through arguing with you. Please refer to all the sources
I mentioned earlier, as well as book written by Rabbi Kahane HY"D available online. If you
don't come around to accepting the Jewish Idea... well, I tried my best.
Peace.
NeverMore:
after these thing you've said, you only proved how same our ideas are.
first- i ment to have mercy on these "muslims", who are only muslims formally, not practically. i absolutely agree that you must eliminate the threat of these mulims who do Jihad, like it says in the kuran. no disagreement here, you absolutely share my views here.
secund- being holy, goes hand by hand with being righteous. only that i say, that if you are'nt righteous, than you cant be holy, so being righteous is the basis. when you are righteous, only then the other mitsvas have meaning, because they come from your HEART.
davkakach, you said to me:
--- Quote ---If you
don't come around to accepting the Jewish Idea... well, I tried my best
--- End quote ---
now this is disrespect. i surely accept and LOVE the Jewish idea with all my heart. my heart fills with pleasure when thinking about true Judaism, the love of G-d, righteousness. you cant imagine how natural this feeling is, how devine.
you and i actually DO believe in the same things, as i dont find any contradiction in what you have said (after clearing the islam issue out and me explaining you what type of "islam i ment, which was formal only, means that you dont do Jihad) and what i believe.
final thing, after all that, you dont know wether these arabs the guy killed were indeed TRUE muslims, or only FORMAL ones. therefore, you cant call him a hero, because of the chance that he has killed a righteous man. i mean, maybe one of them was only "muslim" from birth, but didnt believe in the whole violence preached in the kuran and the other cruel things, but neither did he convert to Judaism for example, which really is peacefull towards anyone who doesnt threaten it.
that is the ONLY point whaere i disagree with you, about him being a hero or not. he would have been a hero by me also, if i was sure that all the people he killed wanted and preached and acted to do jihad and kill Jews.
jsullivan:
1. nevermore writes that all Muslims do not follow the murderous Koran. If someone is a Muslim, he MUST believe in jihad, which means the murder of all non-Muslims. If he does not, then he is not a real Muslim. And don't tell me that there are Muslims who don't know what the Koran says. ALL of the Arab Muslims in Israel and in the Middle East hear and see the quotes from the Koran calling for jihad on their Arabic television and radio programs, in their Arabic newspapers, and in their mosques every day. They know what Islam stands for. They know that Islam DEMANDS complete genocide against ALL non-Muslims. If despite all of this, they still call themselves Muslims, then they are evil. Of course, almost all of the Muslims enthusiastically agree with the Nazi philosophy of the Koran. The few that do not agree, but who are willing to quietly accept what the Muslim terrorist murderers do, are also guilty. And if they do not agree with the Koran's message, then they are not real Muslims. There was also a small minority of Germans who privately disagreed with Hitler (the vast majority of Germans enthusiastically supported Hitler). But this small minority who disagreed with Hitler still remained loyal to Germany during the Holocaust, and followed orders, because their loyalty to Germany was more important to them than their disagreements with Hitler. There are a few Muslims (only a few!) who disagree with the Muslim terrorists, but even they are still loyal to their fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims, and in a war will support their brothers against the Jews. This small minority is therefore also evil.
2. nevermore keeps taking criticism personally. nevermore, stop worrying about being called liberal and start concentrating on the issues themselves. davkakach's criticism of your views is legitimate and should not be taken personally. davkakach has a right to say that he thinks your views are liberal, hellenized and so on. I also think your views on this issue are liberal and un-Jewish. Shouldn't we be able to speak to you honestly without you being insulted every minute? These are not personal attacks. They are legitimate criticisms of your opinions, just as you have criticized davkakach's opinions. We respect you personally, but we think your views are liberal and wrong. Shouldn't we have a right to say that? You keep saying our views are not Jewish. But if we say your views are not Jewish, you are insulted. This is not personal.
3. nevermore has written many times that Jews are not allowed to do to the Arab Muslim "civilians" what the Muslim terrorists have done to the Jewish people. nevermore has said that if we kill the Arab Muslim "civilians" the way the hero Asher Weisgal did, then we are just as bad as the Muslim terrorists. This is the ultimate example of hellenized, leftwing "morality." IF SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING VIOLENT AGAINST EVIL PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT, THAT IS JUSTICE AND IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE REQUIRED TO DO. BUT DOING THE SAME VIOLENT THING AGAINST GOOD PEOPLE IS TERRIBLE. SO YOU CANNOT COMPARE KILLING ARAB MUSLIM NAZI "CIVILIANS" WHO ARE EVIL WITH THE MURDER OF JEWS WHO ARE INNOCENT. THE ARAB MUSLIMS DESERVE IT AND THE JEWS DON'T.
4. Even if there are a handful of Arabs who are not evil, if they are killed by Jews who are fighting a war of survival, IT IS THE ARAB TERRORISTS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DEATHS. THE JEWS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO KILL THEIR ENEMIES. IF NOT, THEN THE ENEMY WILL KILL THE JEWS. HaShem commanded the Jews to completely destroy the residents of Cnaan (Canaan). Yehoshua (Joshua) was commanded by HaShem in the Torah and in sefer yehoshuah to wipe out the evil nations of Cnaan completely. In milchemet mitzvah (an obligatory war), the Rambam and the other Talmudic commentators make it clear that this is how the Jews must fight their wars in every generation. You may agree or disagree with it, but that is REAL Judaism. ALL Arabs and Muslims are rodfim (pursuers of Jewish blood), unless they prove otherwise. A RODEF (PURSUER OF JEWISH BLOOD) CAN BE INNOCENT. FOR EXAMPLE, IF A PREGNANT WOMAN HAS A BABY IN HER WOMB THAT ENDANGERS HER LIFE, WE MUST ABORT THE BABY TO SAVE THE MOTHER'S LIFE. THE BABY IS INNOCENT, BUT THE BABY IS A RODEF BECAUSE THE BABY ENDANGERS THE MOTHER'S LIFE. THEREFORE EVEN ARAB BABIES ARE RODFIM. THE ARAB BABIES ARE INNOCENT, BUT WHEN THEY GROW UP, THEY ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL ENDANGER JEWISH LIVES. These are REAL Jewish concepts. You can agree or disagree, but this is authentic Judaism.
NeverMore:
--- Quote ---nevermore writes that all Muslims do not follow the murderous Koran
--- End quote ---
thats a lie, i've never said it and i never thought so.
jsullivan:
(and dont say that if they're muslims they cant be peaceful or something like that, because not all muslims follow what's written in the kuran, you know)
It's not a lie, nevermore. It's what you wrote.
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