Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Jewish hero convicted of murder
kahaneloyalist:
Everyone, let us remember we are all on the same side and not allow our disagreements to become personal
NeverMore:
--- Quote from: kahaneloyalist on September 12, 2006, 11:33:20 AM ---Everyone, let us remember we are all on the same side and not allow our disagreements to become personal
--- End quote ---
you got that right, but no 2 Jews hold the same idea right? heh.
just that disagreements must remain in the philosophy level, not sliding to personal levels.
you are correct.
davkakach:
--- Quote ---Kahane was absolutely right, i know VERY MUCH of his theories, and he, and all of us as Jews who believe in G-d, would never seek to kill innocent people only because they belong to a people who is our enemy.
you see, if they wanted to kill Jews, then it might be ok, just to save the people they want to kill. but they didint, and the guy who murdered them did it only to use it as a deflector to the hinatkut plan, thus treating them not as people but only as "things".
whatever you may say, you will never be able to convince anyone that it's Jewish to kill inocent people, especially for the reason he killed them.
all you say i agree, but only when regarding dealing with the enemy himself, or killing cevilians say while bombing a katiusha that is firing among a crowd of people or something.
no righteous Jew can seek the death of other righteous people, that if he is really righteous and not pretending to be one.
G-d himself said to let good "nochrim" or "gerim" to live peacefully in Eretz Israel. if the arabs he killed were peaceful people (and dont say that if they're muslims they cant be peaceful or something like that, because not all muslims follow what's written in the kuran, you know), than he himself pretended to be a good Jew, when actually going against G-d. in no case would G-d want innocent people to die like these arabs died, if they were innocent of course. im sure he didnt check their opinions before killing them, because he had a goal to a chieve by that.
...
im here, because i fully agree with REAL Kahanism, and not the brutal cruel WRONG Kahanism you believe in, if you support killing every arab.
there are many righteous arabs who dont deserve to die, maybe one of them was among those who the guy killed. you think thats justified? no way!
--- End quote ---
NeverMore,
You are arguing with me from the limited pool of knowledge you have in Torah and history.
I have nothing personal against you, believe me, but I have very much against your
gentilized, hellenized morality and ethics, which you claim is Jewish. In fact, I used to think
like you, not so long ago. You see, your arguing with me is like a child who argues with
a math professor who tells him that it is impossible to trisect an angle through a
construction that uses a compass and ruler only, and the child stubbornly maintains that
it is possible, and tries to show the professor how it's done.
Judaism is not Thomas Jefferson. Indeed, there are times when a Jew has not only the
right but the obligation to go and kill! But one has to know why, and one has to
know when, and not make blanket statements, "brutal cruel WRONG Kahanism."
There is no such thing as "Kahanism." Rabbi Kahane advanced the Jewish Idea, which
is being faithful to the Torah. Kahanism is just a synonym for Judaism. Rabbi Kahane
was opposed not only by confused, hellenized secular Jews, but also by so-called rabbis,
who had tremendous difficulty accepting some teachings of the Torah, which they
could not reconcile with liberal, Western values that they were exposed to. In a
sense, the most simple-minded, zealous Kahanist is a better Jew than a learned
"rabbi" who opposes "Kahanism."
I recommend that you listen to the following Torah Shiur given by Kahane to students
in Yeshiva University:
http://kahane.hostultra.com/RavKahane14m.mp3
You can find other audio material at
http://kahane.hostultra.com/
but I consider the Torah shiur to be the most important. I have listened to it
dozens of times, and continue listening to it, over and over again.
Listen to it, as many times as possible, internalize the message, and I guarantee
you will come around to see things my way, the Kahane way, but most importantly,
the Jewish way, in no time.
All the Muslims in the world are not worth the life of one Jew.
By Halacha, when Israel rules over the land, any belligerent non-Jew must
be expelled or killed. Since Rabbi Kahane was moderate and enlightened, he favored
the expulsion option. I am not so moderate. But both my view and Rabbi Kahane's
view comform to Halacha.
Regardless, I repeat what I said in a previous post, the action of the Jewish patriot
who killed the four Arab Nazi scum is mostly thje result of frustration due to the
impossible limitations imposed upon settlers by the secular Bolshevik ruling clique,
who have no compassion for Jews, and no reverence for Judaism.
If you can read Hebrew, then you may want to read the following source to
understand what I am talking about (it is about the events leading to Baruch
Goldstein's massacre of Arab Nazi scum in Me'arat HaMachpela more than a
decade ago):
http://www.kahane.org.il/bg/podef1.html
Remember, when in doubt, ALWAYS side with the Jew, not with the Arab.
NeverMore:
i cant see where do you disagree with me. of course, accept for the insults you said to me about me being helenized and crap like that. dont boast so much on knowing the torah. you must be first righteous to claim you are Jewish, and not to be so snobish about you knowing the TORAH better than me. you surely dont know JUDAISM better than me, thats for sure. if you say that you want to kill ALL arabs, ALL muslims, you are no better than the MUSLIMS themselves. its definately not JEWISH to wans such things. unless you dont want to kill all arabs, but only those who want to kill you and destroy Israel. in such case, we won't have any special disagreements.
remember, we hate the kuran for preaching to kill and destroy, and here i see you suggesting the same for the arabs, who are not ALL bad. so you cant wish death to ALL and still claim its JUDAISM's way.
no matter how much Torah you know, Talmud and so on, you can never claim to be a REAL Jew, just like G-d wanted you to be, if you wish innocent people to DIE. i say innocent, because at least 0.000001% of them are so, at least one arab is innocent, enough not to want to kill them ALL.
you can wish to FIGHT them all, because as a PEOPLE they seek for your destruction, but when fighting them, you must try not to kill anypne innocent. thats G-d's way, you know why? because G-d, the way Jews see him, is MORAL. you must, as i said before, bomb for example a katiusha which is firing among crowds of people, but you MUST NOT bomb a marketplace for example, unless there is threat from is (terrorists, stuff like that).
i cant see how bombing innocent people isnt cruelty? can you explain me that? i mean if they dont stand in the way or dont pose any threat. like, you see an arab walking in the street and come to stab him- i mean these things. you call thi JEWISH??
cant be so. never.
you must feel Judaism in the heart, and not just boast that you are so smart about Torah and Talmud.
NeverMore:
hey, davkakach, you added this:
--- Quote ---By Halacha, when Israel rules over the land, any belligerent non-Jew must
be expelled or killed. Since Rabbi Kahane was moderate and enlightened, he favored
the expulsion option. I am not so moderate. But both my view and Rabbi Kahane's
view comform to Halacha.
Regardless, I repeat what I said in a previous post, the action of the Jewish patriot
who killed the four Arab Nazi scum is mostly thje result of frustration due to the
impossible limitations imposed upon settlers by the secular Bolshevik ruling clique,
who have no compassion for Jews, and no reverence for Judaism.
If you can read Hebrew, then you may want to read the following source to
understand what I am talking about (it is about the events leading to Baruch
Goldstein's massacre of Arab Nazi scum in Me'arat HaMachpela more than a
decade ago):
http://www.kahane.org.il/bg/podef1.html
Remember, when in doubt, ALWAYS side with the Jew, not with the Arab.
--- End quote ---
while i was answering you, so her'es my addition:
and i agree with everything you've added, no problem with that. altough i would absolutely prefer rabbi Kahane's way of expelling, instead of murdering them all.
i agree what this jew did was an act of desperation, but surely not heroism.
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