Author Topic: Menachem Mendel Schneerson  (Read 3241 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10543
  • ☭=卐=☮
Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« on: June 24, 2009, 12:44:57 PM »
Whats the big deal with Menachem Mendel Schneerson?
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Yochai

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 12:51:57 PM »
On a similar note to remind everyone, it is the Rebbe's Yahrzeit tomorrow.

As the Rebbe said in regards to giving away land "Not one inch!"

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 01:51:10 PM »
I think Chaim said he met him once.

Offline DownwithIslam

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4247
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 02:14:34 PM »
He was a very, very great Rabbi. He was a man who was completely against any land surrenders by Israel.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 03:22:41 PM »
Rabbi Schneerson was the charismatic leader of the Lubavitch sect of Chassidim. He was a very kind, loving, and strong Israel supporter.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online angryChineseKahanist

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 10543
  • ☭=卐=☮
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 08:04:40 PM »
Is he the guy we see on white trucks that blast Israeli music all over the streets?
"The messiah is coming"
U+262d=U+5350=U+9774

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2009, 08:20:17 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Moshe92

  • Guest
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 08:54:06 PM »
here is a good video


Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 08:57:55 PM »
Is he the guy we see on white trucks that blast Israeli music all over the streets?
"The messiah is coming"


He died several years ago... Maybe you can see him... But I doubt it..

I think you are thinking of the Breslover Chassidic sect {which is my ancestery}. I love Breslovers and think they are awesome... Joy {Simcha} is a mitzvah according to Rabbi Nachman {who died 100s of years ago}.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 08:59:03 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..

PS: How could he be moshiach if he died before accomplishing the goals of Moshiach? There is no way for this to be...
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 09:07:38 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 09:04:36 PM »
From Chabad Site:


The Rebbe
A brief biography


The Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson of righteous memory (1902-1994), the seventh leader in the Chabad-Lubavitch dynasty, is considered to have been the most phenomenal Jewish personality of modern times. To hundreds of thousands of followers and millions of sympathizers and admirers around the world, he was -- and still is, despite his passing -- "the Rebbe," undoubtedly, the one individual more than any other singularly responsible for stirring the conscience and spiritual awakening of world Jewry.

The Rebbe was born in 1902, on the 11th day of Nissan, in Nikolaev, Russia, to the renowned kabbalist, talmudic scholar and leader Rabbi Levi Yitzchak and Rebbetzin Chana Schneerson. Rebbetzin Chana (1880-1964) was known for her erudition, kindness and extraordinary accessibility. Her courage and ingenuity became legend when during her husband's exile by the Soviets to a remote village in Asian Russia she labored to make inks from herbs she gathered in the fields -- so that Rabbi Levi Yitzchak could continue writing his commentary on kabbalah and other Torah-subjects. The Rebbe was named after his great-grandfather, the third Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Lubavitch, with whom he later shared many characteristics.

To Save a Life: There is a story told about the Rebbe's early life that seems to be almost symbolic of everything that was to follow. When he was nine years old, the young Menachem Mendel courageously dove into the Black Sea and saved the life of a little boy who had fallen from the deck of a moored ship. That sense of "other lives in danger" seems to have dominated his consciousness; of Jews drowning in assimilation, ignorance or alienation--and no one hearing their cries for help: Jews on campus, in isolated communities, under repressive regimes. From early childhood he displayed a prodigious mental acuity. By the time he reached his Bar Mitzvah, the Rebbe was considered an illuy, a Torah prodigy. He spent his teen years immersed in the study of Torah.

Marriage in Warsaw: In 1929 Rabbi Menachem Mendel married the sixth Rebbe's daughter, Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka, in Warsaw. (The Rebbetzin, born in 1901, was chosen by her father, the sixth Rebbe, to accompany him in his forced exile to Kostroma in 1927. For sixty years she was the Rebbe's life partner; she passed away on 22 Sh'vat in 1988.) He later studied in the University of Berlin and then at the Sorbonne in Paris. It may have been in these years that his formidable knowledge of mathematics and the sciences began to blossom.

Arrival in the U.S.A.: On Monday, Sivan 28, 5701 (June 23, 1941) the Rebbe and the Rebbetzin arrived in the United States, having been miraculously rescued, by the grace of Almighty G‑d, from the European holocaust. The Rebbe's arrival marked the launching of sweeping new efforts in bolstering and disseminating Torah and Judaism in general, and Chassidic teachings in particular, through the establishment of three central Lubavitch organizations under the Rebbe's leadership: Merkos L'Inyonei Chinuch ("Central Organization For Jewish Education"), Kehot Publication Society, and Machne Israel, a social services agency. Shortly after his arrival, per his father-in-law's urging, the Rebbe began publishing his notations to various Chassidic and kabbalistic treatises, as well as a wide range of response on Torah subjects. With publication of these works his genius was soon recognized by scholars throughout the world.

Leadership: After the passing of his father-in-law, Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn, in 1950, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson reluctantly ascended to the leadership of the Lubavitch movement, whose headquarters at 770 Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn, New York. Soon Lubavitch institutions and activities took on new dimensions. The outreaching philosophy of Chabad-Lubavitch was translated into ever greater action, as Lubavitch centers and Chabad Houses were opened in dozens of cities and university campuses around the world.

Passing: On Monday afternoon (March 2, 1992), while praying at the gravesite of his father-in-law and predecessor, the Rebbe suffered a stroke that paralyzed his right side and, most devastatingly, robbed him of the ability to speak.

Two years and three months later, the Rebbe passed away in the early morning hours of the 3rd of the Hebrew month of Tammuz, in the year 5754 from creation (June, 12 1994), orphaning a generation.

Uniqueness: With the Rebbe's teachings propelling them and his example serving as a beacon to emulate, Lubavitch has rapidly grown to be a worldwide presence, and all its various activities are stamped with his vision. Small wonder then, that many ask, "What is it about his leadership that was -- and, in so many ways, still is -- so unique? Why do leading personalities of the day maintain such profound respect and admiration for him?"

Past, Present and Future: Many leaders recognize the need of the moment and respond with courage and directions. This is their forte -- and an admirable one. Others, though their strength may not lie in "instant response" to current problems, are blessed with the ability of perceptive foresight -- knowing what tomorrow will bring and how to best prepare. Still other leaders excel in yet a third distinct area, possessing a keen sense of history and tradition; their advice and leadership is molded by a great sensitivity to the past.

But one who possessed all three qualities was truly unique, standing alone in leadership. Such was the Lubavitcher Rebbe -- the inspiration and driving force behind the success of Lubavitch today. Radiating a keen sense of urgency, he demanded much from his followers, and even more from himself. The Rebbe led, above else, by example.

Initiation, Not Reaction: He was a rare blend of prophetic visionary and pragmatic leader, synthesizing deep insight into the present needs of the Jewish people with a breadth of vision for its future. In a sense, he charted the course of Jewish history -- initiating, in addition to reacting to, current events. The Rebbe was guided by inspired insight and foresight in combination with encyclopedic scholarship, and all his pronouncements and undertakings were, first and foremost, rooted in our Holy Torah. Time and again, what was clear to him at the outset became obvious to other leaders with hindsight, decades later.

Everyone's Unique Role: From the moment the Rebbe arrived in America in 1941, his brilliance at addressing himself to the following ideal became apparent: He would not acknowledge division or separation. Every Jew -- indeed every human being -- has a unique role to play in the greater scheme of things and is an integral part of the tapestry of G‑d's creation.

For nearly five of the most critical decades in recent history, the Rebbe's goal to reach out to every corner of the world with love and concern has unfolded dramatically. No sector of the community has been excluded -- young and old; men and women; leader and layman; scholar and laborer; student and teacher; children, and even infants.

He had an uncanny ability to meet everyone at their own level -- he advised Heads of State on matters of national and international importance, explored with professionals the complexities in their own fields of expertise, and spoke to small children with warm words and a fatherly smile.

"Actualize Your Potential!" With extraordinary insight, he perceived the wealth of potential in each person. His inspiration, now accessible through his writings and videos, boosts the individual's self-perception, ignites his awareness of that hidden wealth and motivates a desire to fulfill his potential. In the same way, many a community has been transformed by the Rebbe's message, and been given -- directly or indirectly -- a new sense of purpose and confidence. In each case the same strong, if subtle, message is imparted: "You are Divinely gifted with enormous strength and energy -- actualize it!"



I know people who met the Rebbi and they are still impressed with his Torah knowledge and his kindness and charisma. I wish I could have met him.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Moshe92

  • Guest
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 09:09:36 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..



There are some Lubavitchers who say that the Rebbe is the moshiach, but I don't think it's a mainstream view within Chabad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 09:13:13 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..






There are some Lubavitchers who say that the Rebbe is the moshiach, but I don't think it's a mainstream view within Chabad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism

yes, I have heard the assertion but I have yet to find a single Lubavitcher who supports such an idea... Do you know anyone who claims this? Or is it an invention by anti-Chabad people to discredit the Lubavitch {which is what I suspect}. The only truth in this is a quote on the wiki page which says "A spark of Moshiach is in all Jews"... This is also the teaching of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov... He believed that we all have sparks of moshiach in us, and if we elevate ourselves, any Jew has the ability to accomplish what Moshiach must accomplish.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Moshe92

  • Guest
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 09:27:08 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..





There are some Lubavitchers who say that the Rebbe is the moshiach, but I don't think it's a mainstream view within Chabad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism

yes, I have heard the assertion but I have yet to find a single Lubavitcher who supports such an idea... Do you know anyone who claims this? Or is it an invention by anti-Chabad people to discredit the Lubavitch {which is what I suspect}. The only truth in this is a quote on the wiki page which says "A spark of Moshiach is in all Jews"... This is also the teaching of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov... He believed that we all have sparks of moshiach in us, and if we elevate ourselves, any Jew has the ability to accomplish what Moshiach must accomplish.


I don't know anybody who believes that, but there definitely are people who belive that. http://www.mnow.co.il/index_en.html

Note: I'm not criticizing Chabad or trying to discredit Chabad. I like Chabad. The people who think that the Rebbe is the moshiach are not part of the Chabad mainstream.

Offline Yochai

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 09:33:58 PM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..






There are some Lubavitchers who say that the Rebbe is the moshiach, but I don't think it's a mainstream view within Chabad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism

yes, I have heard the assertion but I have yet to find a single Lubavitcher who supports such an idea... Do you know anyone who claims this? Or is it an invention by anti-Chabad people to discredit the Lubavitch {which is what I suspect}. The only truth in this is a quote on the wiki page which says "A spark of Moshiach is in all Jews"... This is also the teaching of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov... He believed that we all have sparks of moshiach in us, and if we elevate ourselves, any Jew has the ability to accomplish what Moshiach must accomplish.


Considering the role Chabad has played in my life, I have nothing bad to say about them.

By the same token though, I cannot lie and say that they many not think he was the Mashiach.  Many Chabadniks that I know well has admitted this to me.  Those who I don't know well, will never admit it to me.  The Chabadniks you ask, are they close to you, or just acquaintances?

In Israel, it is a whole different story.  Chabadniks there have absolutely no problem stating that they KNOW the Rebbe is Mashiach.  Even a Rabbi who I respect greatly, Shalom Dov Wolpe, when speaking of the definteness of the Rabbi as Mashiach was "as sure as the rising of the sun in the morning."  In Israel, many Chabadniks will tell you that they believe he is Mashiach. Not only will they tell you, but many also make sure to put signs all over Chabad neighbourhoods and businesses with a picture of the Rebbe and the word "Mashiach" written in Hebrew.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2009, 12:08:48 AM »
There are some Jews of the Lubovitch sect who believe he is the messiah.

Do you know any? I have asked just about every Chabad Lubavitcher about this and none say they think he was Moshiach. Chabad is very clear that nobody in the organization ever said anything suggesting that Rabbi Schneerson was Moshiach. I find the allegation a bit unsettling..






There are some Lubavitchers who say that the Rebbe is the moshiach, but I don't think it's a mainstream view within Chabad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism

yes, I have heard the assertion but I have yet to find a single Lubavitcher who supports such an idea... Do you know anyone who claims this? Or is it an invention by anti-Chabad people to discredit the Lubavitch {which is what I suspect}. The only truth in this is a quote on the wiki page which says "A spark of Moshiach is in all Jews"... This is also the teaching of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov... He believed that we all have sparks of moshiach in us, and if we elevate ourselves, any Jew has the ability to accomplish what Moshiach must accomplish.


Considering the role Chabad has played in my life, I have nothing bad to say about them.

By the same token though, I cannot lie and say that they many not think he was the Mashiach.  Many Chabadniks that I know well has admitted this to me.  Those who I don't know well, will never admit it to me.  The Chabadniks you ask, are they close to you, or just acquaintances?

In Israel, it is a whole different story.  Chabadniks there have absolutely no problem stating that they KNOW the Rebbe is Mashiach.  Even a Rabbi who I respect greatly, Shalom Dov Wolpe, when speaking of the definteness of the Rabbi as Mashiach was "as sure as the rising of the sun in the morning."  In Israel, many Chabadniks will tell you that they believe he is Mashiach. Not only will they tell you, but many also make sure to put signs all over Chabad neighbourhoods and businesses with a picture of the Rebbe and the word "Mashiach" written in Hebrew.

I can't tell if I know them very well or not. I don't spend a lot of time, except for Shabbat and Yom Tovim with them. In the cases where I ask point blank, they tell me that they do not really believe he was Moshiach. I know three Chabad Rabbis pretty well, as I give a bit of money to Chabad each year. I have never heard in their services any mention of the Rabbi as being moshiach.

Tonight since I was concerned about this I called my Modern Orthodox Rabbi who last year moved to Los Angeles yet we keep in touch often. I asked him about this and he admitted that there are some who do believe this. He concurs with you that some will just not talk about it.

I consider Chabad's website to be authentic Torah. I consider the Chabad Rabbis who teach me and who I have faith that they will lead me in the proper path to offer authentic Torah wisdom. I have no reason to consider them Messianic.

Similar charges were made against the Breslovers in their devotion to Rabbi Nachman. Some accused him of claiming that he was moshiach. I have studied Rabbi Nachmans writings and his Torah and I have never seen this aspect. I do consider it important for a chassid to acquire a Rabbi. This is normative Judaism supported by the words of Pirkie Avot.

http://www.aish.com/spirituality/growth/Crossing_The_Narrow_Bridge3_Ethics_Of_The_Fathers_16.asp

Quote

    Yehoshua ben Perachiah and Nitai HaArbeli received (Torah) from them. Yehoshua ben Perachiah said: "Make yourself a teacher; acquire a friend; and judge every person favorably."

        Ethics of the Fathers 1:6

The Master of the Blind Wise Men asked his disciples to travel into the jungle to find out what is an elephant. Weeks later, the disciples returned. The first disciple said, "Master, an elephant is a thick, round object shaped like a tree trunk."

The next disciple said, "Master, I don't know what our colleague is talking about. An elephant is a long, skinny, leathery-type hose that blows water out of its end."

The third disciple then said, "Master, an elephant, in fact, is a flat paper-thin membrane that flaps up and down."

Finally, the fourth disciple said, "Master, none of them know what they are talking about. An elephant is an extremely thin whip-like object with some hairs at the end."

The master then told them they were all right and all wrong. Each of them had only described a part of the elephant.

We are those disciples. Each of us is a blind, subjective isolated ego, and this is one of the quandaries the teaching of our Mishnah comes to address: Since we are finite creatures -- each a veritable island unto himself -- how do we overcome the subjectivity inherent in our being?

The basic answer Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachiah comes to tell us is threefold: Get yourself a rabbi, a friend, and understand that surface appearances can be deceiving -- what you see is not necessarily what you get.

"MAKING" A MENTOR

Rabbi Nachman of Breslov likened this world to a "very narrow bridge." Indeed, life is a series of dangerous crossings. We continually have important decisions to make. A wrong decision could prove disastrous, if not fatal.

And the bridge is not just any bridge, but a "very narrow" one. That's because as finite, subjective beings we are not only blind in many ways, but we often don't even realize it! We are doubly blind. Is there any hope to cross the "very narrow bridge" successfully?

The answer, of course, is yes. After acknowledging our inherent, unavoidable subjectivity, the next step is to find another person who is not blind, who can lead us across. That's what's at stake in seeking out a rabbi.

A rabbi is a human being like everyone else, but one whose vision has been sharpened with the lens of Torah. Judaism believes in a living tradition. A Torah scholar is not a professor in an ivory tower; he is an exceptionally learned person who has studied God's will in depth and knows how to properly and faithfully apply it in contemporary circumstances.

A rabbi does not necessarily know everything. This is why Yehoshua ben Perachiah tells us to "make" a rabbi, and not to merely "have" one. Finding a rabbi doesn't necessarily come naturally. You may have to go out of your way to find (read: make) one. Or you may have found one who is good but limited in some way. Nevertheless, "make" him your rabbi because you need someone who can guide you and give you perspective. Although he may be lacking in some way, he still has something you don't: perspective on your problem. He is objective where you are subjective. And he has a combination of Torah knowledge and experience enough to lead you across the "very narrow bridge" of life.

The best type of rabbi is a mentor who can turn you into a mentor yourself, teaching you to think for yourself -- with perspective. Change the inflection of the Mishnah slightly and Yehoshua ben Perachiah's aphorism can read: Asei lach rav -- "Make yourself into a rabbi," i.e. your rabbi should be someone who helps you to grow into a person who can be a rabbi/mentor/teacher to others. That's a real mentor, not someone who has a crystal ball and tells you what to do.

The challenge in life is to find the objective truth and stick to it. The first step is to admit that you are not objective by yourself. The next step is to find a real mentor, a rabbi, not a crystal ball gazer. This mentor may be a human being with his own areas of blindness, but he is someone who can nevertheless help you see what you are blind to.

I will judge all Chabadniks and Chassids favorably. I do not believe that Jews can truly believe that Moshiach has come while there is still so much evil in this world. His duties are many and no man alive today has even begun to bring about the rebuilding of the Temple.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12593
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2009, 07:43:56 AM »
There was someone on this forum who asserted that he felt Schneerson was moshiach.


That's not without saying that I love Chabad and the Lubovitch group and that Schneerson was an amazing Rabbi.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Yochai

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2009, 11:29:27 AM »
I am in agreement with you muman.

I as well believe Chabad to be authentic Judaism, and Chabad has played an incredible role in my life, and I owe them a lot.

The fact that a lot of them believe the Rebbe is the Mashiach, while I cannot say I am happy about it, should not have people repelled from Chabad, which is a great group that has probably done more than any other organization to bring Jews back to Teshuva.

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10687
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2009, 03:03:08 PM »
In Israel there are certainly some who believe or believed that Rabbi Schneerson is not really dead and that he is the Messiah. I think it is because they are an embaraasment for the rest of Chabad that they are not as loud and active as they used to be in the 1990s. There used to be Boards featuring the Rebbe's picture and the word "מלך המשיח" "The King Messiah", they also used to sing "יחי אדוננו מורנו ורבנו הרבי מילובביץ מלך המשיח"  "Long live our lord, techer and rabbi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the King Messiah".

Offline Yochai

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2009, 03:20:43 PM »
In Israel there are certainly some who believe or believed that Rabbi Schneerson is not really dead and that he is the Messiah. I think it is because they are an embaraasment for the rest of Chabad that they are not as loud and active as they used to be in the 1990s. There used to be Boards featuring the Rebbe's picture and the word "מלך המשיח" "The King Messiah", they also used to sing "יחי אדוננו מורנו ורבנו הרבי מילובביץ מלך המשיח"  "Long live our lord, techer and rabbi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the King Messiah".

Yechi is still sung by many.

Here it is sung in 770-

And those signs are still up in Israel. The father of a good friend of mine has one hanging in his store and his house.  They also used to be all over the Ayalon highway.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2009, 03:57:39 PM »
In Israel there are certainly some who believe or believed that Rabbi Schneerson is not really dead and that he is the Messiah. I think it is because they are an embaraasment for the rest of Chabad that they are not as loud and active as they used to be in the 1990s. There used to be Boards featuring the Rebbe's picture and the word "מלך המשיח" "The King Messiah", they also used to sing "יחי אדוננו מורנו ורבנו הרבי מילובביץ מלך המשיח"  "Long live our lord, techer and rabbi, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the King Messiah".

Yechi is still sung by many.

Here it is sung in 770-

And those signs are still up in Israel. The father of a good friend of mine has one hanging in his store and his house.  They also used to be all over the Ayalon highway.

There is nothing wrong with believing that Moshiach has come... We have the story of Bar Kokhba who was even believed to be moshiach by none other than the Holy Rebbe Akiva. As quoted from jewfaq.org:

http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm
Quote

 On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the moshiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a moshiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the moshiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the moshiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the moshiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the heading False Messiahs in his book, The Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the moshiach; therefore, none of them were the moshiach. The moshiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past.

After Bar Kokhba died everyone acknowledged that he was not Moshiach...

PS: If Rebbe is not dead then who is in the grave which they all pray at?
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10687
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2009, 04:38:20 PM »
Quote
PS: If Rebbe is not dead then who is in the grave which they all pray at?

They (the Messianic section of Chabad) claim the Rebbe disappeared and that one can't always rely on what the eyes can see. There is the huge differense between Rabbi Akiva and his students, who admitted they were wrong and moved on, and the Chabadnics who cling to a rather fantastic and unrealistic belief.

Offline Yochai

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 254
Re: Menachem Mendel Schneerson
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2009, 09:30:39 PM »
Quote
PS: If Rebbe is not dead then who is in the grave which they all pray at?

They (the Messianic section of Chabad) claim the Rebbe disappeared and that one can't always rely on what the eyes can see. There is the huge differense between Rabbi Akiva and his students, who admitted they were wrong and moved on, and the Chabadnics who cling to a rather fantastic and unrealistic belief.

Many Chabadniks acknowledge that the Rebbe has passed, and admit that he is in the grave.  Nonetheless, they try to justify through certain passages from Mishneh Torah.