Muslims for freedom?

[MrPatriot1776]

In my San Francisco community, I documented a demonstration against the fraudulent elections in Iran. The demonstrators were 70% Persian and probably mostly Muslim. White Christians wouldn't be waving Iranian flags.



I know Chaim, whom we all love, says "you can't be a moderate Muslim." I think that you CAN be a moderate Muslim, you just have to rationalize away why quite a few Qu'ran verses.

This is just some food for thought. There are many Muslims, though they may be liberal, who are against the Islamofascist leaders. But if we continue discriminating against Islam as opposed to radical Islam, we will be polarizing Muslims and pushing more of them towards adopting Islamofascism.

Debate.

[muman613]

Islam is a sick religion which can only lead its followers to destruction. I don't think that the fact that some san francisco loonatic muslims represent the majority of muslims in the world.

[Manch]

Almost all of these Iranians are secular muslims who don't practice islam. I agree with muman - they do not represent majority of muslims and they certainly do not represent islam. Do you see the way they are dress? The mingling of men and women? Besides, Persian are much smarter and I think, less religious, than the rest of the islamic world. Definitely Persians in the West are much more secular - they have nothing to do with islam. Why do you want to put blinds over your eyes?

[GoIsraelGo!]

As far as I know there is only one quran. Where do the radicals get their ideas from?
The radicals get their ideas from the quran...if there were different versions of the quran
then it may be possible that some muslims are moderate, but this is not the case.


                                         Shalom - Dox

[ag337]

Muslims and freedom are a contradiction.
Plain and simple.

Here is a hypothetical example that could very well be real.
Maybe, there is a peaceful Muslim mother, later, she has five children, these children go to Muslim run schools and/or a madrassa, in their daily classes these children learn about different beliefs of the Koran, later in life, three children become self-sufficient responsible adults; and the other two children, due to their exposure to Radical Islam in school become suicide bombers because, they were taught that being a "martyr" for Islam is the solution for Islam throughout the World.

Now, tell me, where does freedom and Muslim connect???
Islamic ideology does not permit freedom.
Take a look at the women in Islamic run countries.
They are covered from head to toe, actually imprisoned by the burka.
Where is the freedom for these Muslim women???

The ancient penalty of "stoning" women is still in practice throughout the Muslim World.
Where is the freedom in that???

Or how about, honor killings preformed by male family members against sisters, daughters, nieces, and wives.
Where is their freedom???

What about "sharia courts" and "sharia laws", that Muslims are trying to implement into Western societies, such as in the UK.
Where is the freedom there???

Islam is about oppression.
And, oppression does not equal freedom.
It is really very simple to understand.

[arksis]

Muslims and freedom are a contradiction.
Plain and simple.

Here is a hypothetical example that could very well be real.
Maybe, there is a peaceful Muslim mother, later, she has five children, these children go to Muslim run schools and/or a madrassa, in their daily classes these children learn about different beliefs of the Koran, later in life, three children become self-sufficient responsible adults; and the other two children, due to their exposure to Radical Islam in school become suicide bombers because, they were taught that being a "martyr" for Islam is the solution for Islam throughout the World.

Now, tell me, where does freedom and Muslim connect???
Islamic ideology does not permit freedom.
Take a look at the women in Islamic run countries.
They are covered from head to toe, actually imprisoned by the burka.
Where is the freedom for these Muslim women???

The ancient penalty of "stoning" women is still in practice throughout the Muslim World.
Where is the freedom in that???

Or how about, honor killings preformed by male family members against sisters, daughters, nieces, and wives.
Where is their freedom???

What about "sharia courts" and "sharia laws", that Muslims are trying to implement into Western societies, such as in the UK.
Where is the freedom there???

Islam is about oppression.
And, oppression does not equal freedom.
It is really very simple to understand.

Thank you ag, you just described the muslims to a T and so perfectly and rationally that anyone can understand this! Thank you!

[Raulmarrio2000]

I think it is posible to be a moderate Muslim, that is to believe in A-llah, eat Halal, do the pescribed prayers and fasts, and oppsoe radical Islam and terrorism. Perhaps this would not fit into que Quranic defintion of Islam, but there are many people whi practise Islam like that. The problem is that many moderate Muslims, and even non-Muslims who descend from or are related to Muslims, ussually hate the Jews, and align themselves either with rightist fascism or pro-Arab liberalism, even if they condemn physical violence.  However, I'd say that about 40% of non-Mulims living in the West have also a strong prejudice and hate towards the Jews.

[Dan]

You sound like a Real naive or ill informed individual, to say the least.
There is no such thing as moderate Muslims, or different versions of the Koran.
There is no debating this issue!

[Raulmarrio2000]

You sound like a Real naive or ill informed individual, to say the least.
There is no such thing as moderate Muslims, or different versions of the Koran.
There is no debating this issue!

There aren't different versions of the Koran, but there are Muslims who are either not fully observant or interpret the Koran differently. There are some of them that interpet the violent verses as valid only for the time the Koran was being written. The great problem is that I still haven't met any Muslim that recognises Israel. The is a site "Muslims for Israel", but except for that, I have never met such kind of Muslim.

[MrPatriot1776]

You guys have pretty much convinced me. Thank you.

[Zelhar]

It is impossible to sustain a moderate muslim society, this is a state without equilibrium and it will ultimately divert back to main stream Islam. The correct term should be "secular muslim" because someone who actually believes in the filth of Islam is not moderate.

Even according to Islam itself these secular "muslims" are called infidels, hypocrats and liars. So ultimately and individual and the society must decide- should we tolerate the teaching of Islam, the mosques, the madrassas, the repression of women, and all the quarks of Islam, or should we remove the sickness from our midst.

Just take for example Indonesia. It used to be a moderate muslim country. The people there understood no Arabic and weren't fully aware to what Islam was all about, but on the same time other religions were repressed and their followers under a constant pressure to convert. Then came the Saudis and taught the Indonesian muslims what's Islam is really all about. The Indonesian moderates have no way to win this argument, because everything the Arabs preach is correct according to Islam.

[Debbie Shafer]

I know and believe there are alot of Muslims who would like to be free to become Christians, but do not have the courage or the will.   Iran is a perfect example of people wanting democracy and being Islamic, who have been abandoned and disregarded by their government.   Even their Islamic Messiah cannot squash the evil that persists and invades the evil government of Iran, that is establishing nuclear weapons for annihilation purposes.   I keep hoping the people and especially the Muslims in Iran who feel their votes are disregarded will form unity through out the country, and form a Revolution to take elect a leader that works for them!

[joshua]

The spreading of hatred, and selling oil are their only exports.  What progress has been made in Muslim countries with regards to learning, medicine, science, the arts, or any field?  The number of patents and trademarks issued in those countries is about nil.

Once you have all the answers, any inquiry into the nature of our world is heresy.

[Ultra Requete]

Those people are either not practicing hipocrite "apostates" acording to Koran or Persians who converted into Zaratostranism or Christianity. Real muslims are bound to follow Koran and hadith remmeber that islam means submission. And only freedom you can found in islam is freedom of pilaging, raping and stealing from non muslims. 

[mord]

 Most Persians i have meet in the U.S. are Persians first they really resent the Quran and rather like pre Islamic Persia.They really don't care about the Ummah.They really dislike Islam