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Ask me about arabs.
Spectator:
I certainly woudn't call Hyades a self-hating Jew. When judging a person, I must take into consideration the conditions in which he/she was born and grew up. I understand you, Hyades. If the country where you were born didn't oppress you, give you education, health care etc. and good friends, it is quite natural to feel gratitude to it and feel a part of it.
The question is what is more important to you, your country or your (Jewish) people. Are you a Jew? Is your mother Jewish?
If yes, think about all the suffering the Jews have expericenced all though 2000 years of staying in Germany and in Europe in general. Remember countless Jewish lives that were taken in the name of Christianity or European nations. Remeber the heroism of the Jews who didn't give up their faith and their identity. I dn't even want to mention the Holocaust...
Do you think Germany deserved the faithful patriotism of those 90.000 Jews who fought for her against France, England and Russia in WWI? Did France, England and Russia deserve the faithful patriotism of the tens of thousand of Jews who fought for them against Germany?
Don't you think it's terrible that the Jews from diffentent countries were killing each other for the interests of European countries?
If there's now a war between Germany and US, would you join the German army knowing that there American Jews who fight for US and you'll probable have to kill some of them? (The same question I can ask American Jews).
The exile is our curse. It will always put the Jews before dilemma who are more loyal, your country or your people. And even if you choose your country, there'll always be people who accuse you that you are more loyal to your people, whatever you do.
I don't hate Europeans. I know there are many good people among them. There are righteous people from Europe, like the members of our forum. It is wonderful you have German friends, any true friendship is sacred.
Zelhar:
Now who misunderstand who ?
I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".
If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 06, 2009, 06:17:38 AM ---Now who misunderstand who ?
I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".
If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?
--- End quote ---
Interesting. hmmmm.
Hyades:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on August 06, 2009, 06:17:38 AM ---Now who misunderstand who ?
I never said that A Jew should think of himself as Israeli, I actually said that I don't even think of myself as Israeli but simply as a Jew. I also don't say that a Jew must live in Israel. We are the people of Israe, the people of Israel = the Jews, not people who live in the state of Israel. We are obliged to defend our people, and our home land. For a Jew, nationality must comes last, after the people, the homeland, the religion. I don't recognize terms like "Jewish American/Israeli/German" the correct term is "Amrican/Israeli/German Jew".
If there is a conflict between being a loyal German citizen, to being a Jew, if you must pick sides, which side are you on ?
--- End quote ---
If there was a choice to make, then yes, my Jewish heritage would come first. But I am in the lucky condition that there is no need to choose. Because the choice between national and religious is also a choice between secular values and HaShem. I would rather be a poor follower of HaShem then a rich follower of any nationality or ideology.
@Spectator:
You are right in every thing you say. And no, Germany did not deserve Jewish WWI loyalty since it was given no value afterwards and they were treated worse than any creature on this planet!
But if Germany had a war against the US I would try not to pick up arms. If it was Germany against Russia or Muslims, then yes, I would defend Germany!
Zelhar:
I will put the discussion aside and just say that I apologize for calling or implying that Haydes is a self hating Jew. I shouldn't have say that and I believe Haydes is, regardless of difference of opinions or misunderstandings, a good and loyal Jew.
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