Author Topic: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?  (Read 2994 times)

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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2009, 03:42:11 AM »
Jews who are simply ignorant will not be judged as harshly as Jews who knowingly defy G-d's laws. On Yom Hadin (The Day Of Judgement), we are all judged midah keneged midah (measure for measure) with perfect justice and with G-dly mercy.
Of course I believe that all persons are judged with perfect justice, but where do you draw the line between ignorance and willful disobedience? Fornication is a violation of the Noahide Laws, which as I understand are part of "natural law" that is universally written on the human heart. This guy could choose to seek G-d on his own, but his mind and heart are on worldly things/

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2009, 03:44:39 AM »
I do believe that when you urge a fellow Jew to observe mitzvot, you should usually do so carefully and with love so as not to turn the Jew even further away from Torah.

Another point: why does G-d demand repentence even for Jews who are ignorant? Because Jews will be asked on judgement day, why did you remain ignorant? Why didn't you try to learn and find out the truth? Again, the punishment is less severe if someone remains ignorant, but ignorance is still not a complete excuse for committing sins. Even in secular law, we have the rule: "Ignorance is no defense" - you can't say you violated the law because you didn't know any better.

Offline muman613

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2009, 03:45:38 AM »
I do believe that when you urge a fellow Jew to observe mitzvot, you should usually do so carefully and with love so as not to turn the Jew even further away from Torah.

Another point: why does G-d demand repentence even for Jews who are ignorant? Because Jews will be asked on judgement day, why did you remain ignorant? Why didn't you try to learn and find out the truth? Again, the punishment is less severe if someone remains ignorant, but ignorance is still not a complete excuse for committing sins. Even in secular law, we have the rule: "Ignorance is no defense" - you can't say you violated the law because you didn't know any better.

I fully agree with this... Everyone has the ability, especially in this day and age, to learn Torah...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2009, 03:47:21 AM »
Another point: why does G-d demand repentence even for Jews who are ignorant? Because Jews will be asked on judgement day, why did you remain ignorant? Why didn't you try to learn and find out the truth?
That's basically what I said. A person, any person, can choose to live for either worldly things, or heavenly things. Some people struggle with this, but others don't even care.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2009, 03:48:25 AM »
Guess it's my responsibility. So essentially in the 0.1% chance he marries her it will be my fault even if I try to get him to dump her?

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2009, 03:51:41 AM »
No, no, no, that's not a biblical attitude or teaching at all--but you should try considering what a good friend he is.

Offline Chaim Ben Pesach

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2009, 04:00:55 AM »
Guess it's my responsibility. So essentially in the 0.1% chance he marries her it will be my fault even if I try to get him to dump her?

No. If you try your best to prevent it, you will not be held responsible. On the contrary, you will be doing a righteous deed by trying to save your friend.

I suggest that you do this gently. That you emphasize to your friend that you are doing this because of your great concern for your friend's well-being both in this world and in the next.


Offline ChaimBenMordechai

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2009, 08:45:01 AM »
I knew a person who was head-over-heels for a catholic girl. Thing was she treated him like dreck at times...tried to change him and he bent over backwards to please her. After she got tired of playing with him, she dumped him...telling him that she'd rather be with a nice catholic boy and she left him for a guy who was planning to go into the priesthood.

Better he found out then than after they were married.

Had I been there, I would've smacked some sense into him and hopefully he would have left the little kurveh. 

Offline Aces High

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2009, 10:12:01 AM »
I knew a person who was head-over-heels for a catholic girl. Thing was she treated him like dreck at times...tried to change him and he bent over backwards to please her. After she got tired of playing with him, she dumped him...telling him that she'd rather be with a nice catholic boy and she left him for a guy who was planning to go into the priesthood.

Better he found out then than after they were married.

Had I been there, I would've smacked some sense into him and hopefully he would have left the little kurveh. 

Her dumping him was the luckiest thing that ever happened to him.   If a girl treats you like crap when you're dating her, she's gonna make your life 1000 times worse if you marry her.  And you'll probably end up with a divorce and a kid involved.  Then you're up a creek without a paddle.  I have some friends that fell into that situation.

 

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2009, 10:25:04 AM »
He's not frum because he wasn't brought up that way. He was never educated properly about the importance of dating jews. It's not his fault.

You're right, it's not his fault.  It is the fault of those who stole away Judaism from him and stole away his heart and soul.   This guilt goes back to the founders of Deform Judaism, and falls at the doorstep of every "Jewish" organization in the country.    At the same time, there is always a chance for redemption.   If you can somehow prevent him from intermarrying and over time show him the value of Judaism (show how great it has been in your life and how much you love it - but always careful not to overly "missionize" because that will turn people off), eventually he might realize how much you helped him and he might start to learn Torah or at least give his future (Jewish) kids a better Jewish education.    This is all way more easily said than done.

But if you've already tried telling him straight up, and he didn't listen, then he is responsible.  You tried.   What I would say is to go a different route since straight talk didn't work.   Go the psychological route.  Make insinuations about the girl that she isn't smart enough for him, or isn't pretty enough, or isn't this or isn't that..... Just get him thinking.   Don't say things like this directly but with sort of off-the-cuff comments..... where you are hinting at something without fully saying it.   Things that are sort of laughed off, but later on he really will think about them and have doubts possibly...   Just planting seeds.    When they get in a fight or he meets someone new, these will come into play.     And at the same time, while you are being subtle about breaking it up, you can of course never express approval in any way for this terrible situation.   So you are basically neutral about it unless asked for approval which then you express how wrong it is, but otherwise you are sort of underhandedly messing with his psychology in regards to the girl without him knowing necessarily.   That seems to me like a good strategy that has a chance of working.  When you tell him not to and he doesn't listen, you can't really expect that straightforward way to work.  That's my opinion.    I am interpreting from what you say that you have already tried this route and it failed.

Yeah, he SEEMS happy but that is because he is getting some with this chick.   Once it becomes physical, guys become blinded about the girl.   And he can be just as happy with a different girl.   Much more happy with a Jewish one.    Well, good luck.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 10:33:42 AM by Kahane-Was-Right BT »

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2009, 11:18:45 AM »
Yeah, he SEEMS happy but that is because he is getting some with this chick.   Once it becomes physical, guys become blinded about the girl.   And he can be just as happy with a different girl.
Yes, he is living for today. Immorality is what is valuable to him, and is what he will be judged for if he does not repent.

Quote
Much more happy with a Jewish one. Well, good luck.
Well, I would hope that he doesn't have immoral relations with a Jewish girl either.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: one of my best friends is dating a non-jew.What would you do?
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2009, 01:13:26 PM »
Thanks guys. I have some ideas now. Appreciated.