Healthcare

[The One and Only Mo]

In the States, I know it is pricey. There has to be some way to help lower class types to pay for some of that stuff, care,drugs. etc. I live in Canada and my dad lives in NY, and I'm happier with free health care. I don't know what the answer is for the states, but when my stepdad Olav Hashalom spent over two months in the hospital here in Canada, it was free. In the States, it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Confederate Kahanist]

Even though  health care is free in Canada, though it is still terrible and requires a real long wait period.  Employers will usually have health benefits for there employees.  I think medicaid should only cover citizens that don't have a job and that have a preexisting condition. 

[The One and Only Mo]

I wait longer in waiting rooms in NY than I do in Toronto.

[nessuno]

ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

[Yochai]

I too live in Canada and I can assure you that there are many procedures for which the wait is much longer.

There is a reason that so many Canadians go to Buffalo and Detroit for MRI's and procedures of that nature.

Furthermore, the quality of healthcare in the United States is undoubtedly the best in the world.  If a Canadian fresh out of Med school is aware of his superior skill, he will go to the United States, where he will be compensated duly, instead of receiving the same amount of money as a much inferior doctor.
This is why the best Canadian doctors practice in the U.S.

[Confederate Kahanist]

ObamaCare Yay Or Nay? The Truth About Canada!

I watched that a few weeks ago.  It was funny.

[Moshe92]

The government here would never be able to pay for and efficiently run a universal healthcare system

[The One and Only Mo]

Canada's a bad example because it has only 30 million people. But in the U.S. it's so expensive. I wish it weren't.

[GoIsraelGo!]

Mo, If you had a serious illness such as cancer, chances are 1 in 3 you would die waiting for treatment.

So in Canada, 1 out of every three seriously ill patients dies.

Here in the USA, if the obamanation gets his way, you can up the numbers of those dying to get treatment due to our much hugher population.

Perhaps you are fine with a Social Government and their lax medical care, lax laws againt murderers, etc, but we feel differently.

[MasterWolf1]

The "king' Is trying to screw all of us

[The One and Only Mo]

Mo, If you had a serious illness such as cancer, chances are 1 in 3 you would die waiting for treatment.

So in Canada, 1 out of every three seriously ill patients dies.

Here in the USA, if the obamanation gets his way, you can up the numbers of those dying to get treatment due to our much hugher population.

Perhaps you are fine with a Social Government and their lax medical care, lax laws againt murderers, etc, but we feel differently.

Are u on crack??Who the hell would be on this forum if they didn't hate that crap? I hate all that stuff, Einstein. But I've never heard anybody waiting like that in the 13 years I've lived here. More people die if they can't afford to be healed. So either they "wait without treatment" because of the system or because they have no money?

[GoIsraelGo!]

Mo, you are extremely rude and disrespectful to women. I do not appreciate you replying in such a manner.

Your reply has been reported to the moderators.

[The One and Only Mo]

what difference does it make what gender you are? U insulted me first.

[HuntingMuslims]

Mo, If you had a serious illness such as cancer, chances are 1 in 3 you would die waiting for treatment.

So in Canada, 1 out of every three seriously ill patients dies.

Here in the USA, if the obamanation gets his way, you can up the numbers of those dying to get treatment due to our much hugher population.

Perhaps you are fine with a Social Government and their lax medical care, lax laws againt murderers, etc, but we feel differently.

Are u on crack??Who the hell would be on this forum if they didn't hate that crap? I hate all that stuff, Einstein. But I've never heard anybody waiting like that in the 13 years I've lived here. More people die if they can't afford to be healed. So either they "wait without treatment" because of the system or because they have no money?

As an American I don't wan't a socialist goverment and obamas health plan is the start of it.If you like Canadas health plan so much feel free to move there.Remember the USA is a free country so feel free to leave.

[HuntingMuslims]

Please take note of  pages 425-429, give this some thought. Stay informed and chase down your senators and representatives by phone or in person. I heard one senator say, "We are in this together." They are not because they don't have to join and will keep their own plan. More lying and "HYPOCRACY."

Pg 22 of the Health Care Bill MANDATES the  Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure.

Pg  30 Sec 123- THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what  treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 - YOUR  HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED.

Pg 42 - The “Health Choices  Commissioner” will choose your Heathcare Benefits for you. You have  no choice.

PG 50 Section 152- Heathcare will be provided to  ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 53-  Severability (KEY GEM)

“If any provision of the Act, or any  application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held  to be unconstitutional, the remainder of the provisions of this Act  and the application of the provision to any other person or  circumstance shall not be affected.”

Pg 58 - Govt will have  real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID  Healthcard will be issued.

Pg 59 lines 21-24- Govt will have  direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds  transfer.

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for  retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations  (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an Healthcare  Exchange to bring private Healthcare plans under Govt &nb sp;control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 - Govt=2 0mandates ALL benefit packages  for private Healthcare plans in the Exchange.

Pg 91 Lines  4-7- Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example:  Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 Lines 8-18 The Govt will  use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for  Govt Healthcare plan.

PG 85 Line 7 - Specs of Benefit Levels  For Plans. #AARP members- Your Health care WILL be  rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18- Medicaid-Eligible Individual will be  automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines  24-25 No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review”  against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16- RE: Doctors- The  Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An  Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO  CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for Healthcare  for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines  16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who doesn’t  provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

PG 150  Lines 9-13- Businesses with payroll between 251k & 400k who  doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg  167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable  Healthcare according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg  170 Lines 1-3 A ny NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual t axes.  (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 -Officers & employees of  Heathcare Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans  financial/personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15- “The tax  imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it  actually says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24-Govt will reduce  physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will  be affected. Expendable.

Pg 241 Line 6-8- Doctors, doesn’t  matter what specialty you have, you will all be paid the  same.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Doctor's time,  professional judgment, etc. Literally sets the value of  humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131-Govt mandates & controls  productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141- Fed  Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven  wheelchairs.

P G 272 SEC. 1145- TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER  HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280  Sec 1151- The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems  “preventable re-admissions.”

Pg 298 Lines 9-11- Doctors,  treat a patient during initial admission that results in a  readmission? Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L  13-20-PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what  and how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3:  PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospital s cannot  expand.

pg 321 2-13: Hospit als have opportunity to apply for  exception BUT community input required.

Pg335 Lines 16-25, Pg  336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures.  Heahcare the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9: Govt  has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing  people into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT  enrollment of Special needs people.

Pg 379 Sec 1191- Govt  creates more bureaucracy - “Telehealth Advisory Committee.” 

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates “Advanced  Care Planning Consultations.”

PG 425 the Federal Government  will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a  counseling session every 5 years with "end o f life  counseling."

Pg 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct &  consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.  Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides  approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in  death.

PG 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders  for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg  429 Lines 1-9: An “advanced care planning20consult” will be used  frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines  10-12: “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of  life plans. AN ORDER from the Government.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25  - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life  order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15- The Govt will decide what level of  treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 - Community  Based Home Medical  Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472  Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a  community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308: The Govt  will cover Marriage & Family therapy.

Pg 494-498: Govt will  cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing  those services.”

This is only half the bill so far.

--
   

[arksis]

what difference does it make what gender you are? U insulted me first.

I see NOWHERE that she insulted YOU first! 

[ProudAndZionist]

Don't fight on the forum.  Use the "private messages"

[ProudAndZionist]

what difference does it make what gender you are? U insulted me first.

I see NOWHERE that she insulted YOU first! 

Same here. 

"But we are a band of brothers"

Bonnie blue flag. 

[~Hanna~]

 

 

 

Please take note of  pages 425-429, give this some thought. Stay informed and chase down your senators and representatives by phone or in person. I heard one senator say, "We are in this together." They are not because they don't have to join and will keep their own plan. More lying and "HYPOCRACY."

Pg 22 of the Health Care Bill MANDATES the  Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure.

Pg  30 Sec 123- THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what  treatments/benefits you get.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 - YOUR  HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED.

Pg 42 - The “Health Choices  Commissioner” will choose your Heathcare Benefits for you. You have  no choice.

PG 50 Section 152- Heathcare will be provided to  ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 53-  Severability (KEY GEM)

“If any provision of the Act, or any  application of such provision to any person or circumstance, is held  to be unconstitutional, the remainder of the provisions of this Act  and the application of the provision to any other person or  circumstance shall not be affected.”

Pg 58 - Govt will have  real-time access to individual’s finances & a National ID  Healthcard will be issued.

Pg 59 lines 21-24- Govt will have  direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds  transfer.

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for  retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations  (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an Healthcare  Exchange to bring private Healthcare plans under Govt &nb sp;control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 - Govt=2 0mandates ALL benefit packages  for private Healthcare plans in the Exchange.

Pg 91 Lines  4-7- Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example:  Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 Lines 8-18 The Govt will  use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for  Govt Healthcare plan.

PG 85 Line 7 - Specs of Benefit Levels  For Plans. #AARP members- Your Health care WILL be  rationed

PG 102 Lines 12-18- Medicaid-Eligible Individual will be  automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines  24-25 No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review”  against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16- RE: Doctors- The  Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An  Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO  CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for Healthcare  for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines  16-24 ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who doesn’t  provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

PG 150  Lines 9-13- Businesses with payroll between 251k & 400k who  doesn’t provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg  167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable  Healthcare according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg  170 Lines 1-3 A ny NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual t axes.  (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 -Officers & employees of  Heathcare Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans  financial/personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15- “The tax  imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it  actually says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24-Govt will reduce  physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will  be affected. Expendable.

Pg 241 Line 6-8- Doctors, doesn’t  matter what specialty you have, you will all be paid the  same.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Doctor's time,  professional judgment, etc. Literally sets the value of  humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131-Govt mandates & controls  productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141- Fed  Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven  wheelchairs.

P G 272 SEC. 1145- TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER  HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280  Sec 1151- The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems  “preventable re-admissions.”

Pg 298 Lines 9-11- Doctors,  treat a patient during initial admission that results in a  readmission? Govt will penalize you.

Pg 317 L  13-20-PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what  and how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3:  PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospital s cannot  expand.

pg 321 2-13: Hospit als have opportunity to apply for  exception BUT community input required.

Pg335 Lines 16-25, Pg  336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures.  Heahcare the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9: Govt  has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing  people into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT  enrollment of Special needs people.

Pg 379 Sec 1191- Govt  creates more bureaucracy - “Telehealth Advisory Committee.” 

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates “Advanced  Care Planning Consultations.”

PG 425 the Federal Government  will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a  counseling session every 5 years with "end o f life  counseling."

Pg 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct &  consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney.  Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: Govt provides  approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in  death.

PG 427 Lines 15-24: Govt mandates program for orders  for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends.

Pg  429 Lines 1-9: An “advanced care planning20consult” will be used  frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines  10-12: “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of  life plans. AN ORDER from the Government.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25  - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life  order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15- The Govt will decide what level of  treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469 - Community  Based Home Medical  Services = Non profit organizations. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Page 472  Lines 14-17: PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a  community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308: The Govt  will cover Marriage & Family therapy.

Pg 494-498: Govt will  cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing  those services.”

This is only half the bill so far.

--
   

[The One and Only Mo]

Telling somebody you don't know that he/she prefers a lax government is an insult. How would you like it if somebody told you that? The point I was trying to make was that the world can be a better place without it having to be so expensive. Poverty has to lead to death and lack of treatment? I don't give a [censored] about Obama's plan, and frankly his crap won't work in the U.S. because it sucks for the U.S. Just because THAT plan sucks doesn't mean another plan might be better where people don't have to die because they can't afford it or wait for treatment. I've lived in both Canada and the U.S., I got the same treatment in both places except in Canada there was no bill. If you're going to bash the healthcare in Canada at least live in both places for a long time before you do. I'm not saying that the U.S. should do what Canada does, it won't work for them, but there has to be a solution. Baruch Hashem all of you can afford it, but others can't.

[~Hanna~]

No, employers do not always have healthcare for their employees, Ive worked for many, that had no healthcare.

Even though  health care is free in Canada, though it is still terrible and requires a real long wait period.  Employers will usually have health benefits for there employees.  I think medicaid should only cover citizens that don't have a job and that have a preexisting condition. 

[nessuno]

Telling somebody you don't know that he/she prefers a lax government is an insult. How would you like it if somebody told you that? The point I was trying to make was that the world can be a better place without it having to be so expensive. Poverty has to lead to death and lack of treatment? I don't give a drek about Obama's plan, and frankly his crap won't work in the U.S. because it sucks for the U.S. Just because THAT plan sucks doesn't mean another plan might be better where people don't have to die because they can't afford it or wait for treatment. I've lived in both Canada and the U.S., I got the same treatment in both places except in Canada there was no bill. If you're going to bash the healthcare in Canada at least live in both places for a long time before you do. I'm not saying that the U.S. should do what Canada does, it won't work for them, but there has to be a solution. Baruch Hashem all of you can afford it, but others can't.

Mo2388,   Why shouldn't there be a bill?  Is that what you want free healthcare?  Nothing is free anyway.  So we will be taxed for shoddy service?  There are ways of reforming health care without making the system suck for everyone.
By the way I've worked in health care for many years, always in major medical centers.  I have yet to see a pt. turned away.  I sometimes see the uninsured get better treatment then the insured.  They also get assistance to apply for assistance.  If you like the Canadian style of healthcare, then that is where you should seek treatment.  There are always options for people who can't afford healthcare.  We need to help the people who are truly in the gap.  Not the people who just don't choose to have health insurance or shouldn't be eligible.  Why do we have to change for them?

[GoIsraelGo!]

what difference does it make what gender you are? U insulted me first.

I see NOWHERE that she insulted YOU first! 

I did not insult him at all, he had to make up some excuse to cover his rude reply.

Thanks Dawn.... I appreciate the support.  :  )
             

                                    Shalom - Elizabeth 

[nessuno]

Mo, If you had a serious illness such as cancer, chances are 1 in 3 you would die waiting for treatment.

So in Canada, 1 out of every three seriously ill patients dies.

Here in the USA, if the obamanation gets his way, you can up the numbers of those dying to get treatment due to our much hugher population.

Perhaps you are fine with a Social Government and their lax medical care, lax laws againt murderers, etc, but we feel differently.

Are u on crack??Who the hell would be on this forum if they didn't hate that crap? I hate all that stuff, Einstein. But I've never heard anybody waiting like that in the 13 years I've lived here. More people die if they can't afford to be healed. So either they "wait without treatment" because of the system or because they have no money?

...and Mo,  I think you owe RepublicanDox an apology.  She in no way insulted you first.  She is telling you that the majority of Americans are satisfied with our health care.  It is a statistic.  We discuss issues here.
You were way out of line. 
Everyone receives treatment in this country, even those without money, insurance, or a right to the care.  Maybe that is why our healthcare system is about to collapse. 

[Lisa]

You guys, this is not worth a whole fight.  I've heard horror stories about the nationalized healthcare in Canada and in Britain.  But we can discuss that tomorrow night.  

In a minute, I'm going to be taking the forum offline for Shabbat.  So let's all just calm down.