Rebbe warned about the Ethiopians

[galileerat]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe warned again and again in the 80s that accepting the Ethiopians to Israel en masse would in the future give Israel sore cause to regret!

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145152672&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Manch]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe warned again and again in the 80s that accepting the Ethiopians to Israel en masse would in the future give Israel sore cause to regret!

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145152672&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

What do you think about it? Aren't they Jews?

[galileerat]

R.Moshe Feinstein ruled that the Falashas had the status of "sofek yehudim", who required geirus l'kula. Most refused to undergo this.

All authorities hold that the Falash Mura are complete goyim who require geirus l'chumra. Most undergo this.

The Lubavitcher Rebbe, who was not a posek, warned in 1984 that the Ethiopians should be allowed in to Israel only on an individual basis, with conversion taking place outside of Israel, not en masse. Leftists like Yossi Sarid want to let in 1 million. Even R.Ovadiya Yosef wants to bring in 250,000 Ethiopic blacks, as he believes that that will boost Shas' voter base!

[Manch]

what is posek? What are the other terms that you used?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

R.Moshe Feinstein ruled that the Falashas had the status of "sofek yehudim", who required geirus l'kula. Most refused to undergo this.

Proof/source?  

My understanding was that Ethiopians did do this upon arrival.  The vast majority of them.


Also why do you say Lubavitcher rebbe was "not a posek." ?   I doubt any Lubavitchers feel this way.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe, who was not a posek

Says the religious Jew-bashing troll Mitflezet.

[Zelhar]

I can't believe you say The Lubavitcher Rebbe was not a posek. He was an admor, and to his chasidim, he was the posek of highest authority. 

what is posek? What are the other terms that you used?

פוסק הלכה Posek Halacha is a rabbi who can make a halachic based ruling on previously undetermined issues. It is not an official title but naturally the most important and hardest to determine questions are determined by rabbis of highest regard.

[Masha]

My friend teaches a lot of Ethiopians in Israel. She says it is common to see a cross tatooed on their forehead.

[Zelhar]

My friend teaches a lot of Ethiopians in Israel. She says it is common to see a cross tatooed on their forehead.

These are the Falash Mura and gentile free riders.

The Falashim, the real Jews from Ethiopia, are good and polite Jews who integrate much better in society than the other Ethiopians who are basically gentiles who may have a Jewish ancestor who had converted to christianity  a hundred years ago or more, like millions of people in Europe for example. They are complete goyim.

[galileerat]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe, like most Chassidic Rebbes, himself refused the title of a posek ie he refused to issue definitive Halachic rulings. He left that to the Dayanim of the Chabad Beis Din, who followed his cue.

The wave of Falasha aliya in 1985 was all set to be OK, with quick mikva immersion and hatofas dam at Ben Gurion airport.

But anti-Torah subversive leftist agitators stirred up the Ethiopians to near riot, claiming that they were already full Jews and that it was an "insult" for them to immerse and be pricked for blood.

The cowardly R.Ovadiya Yosef was bribed to back down, and thus most "sofek yehudi" Falashas were never properly megayer, leaving a doubt on their Jewishness to this day, amongst most Haredim at least.

Ironically, the latest wave of completely gentile Falash Mura end up being completely Jewish, as they do undergo full conversion!

There are c150,000 Ethiopian blacks in Israel, together with another c100,000 negroidal Black Hebrews, Bedouins, Sudanese, Eritreans, Nigerians etc.

Most make useful guards, factory workers, agricultural workers, foot soldiers etc.
Some even study Torah and become tzaddikim. Some become reshoyim: some of the worst soldiers and Yassamniks during the 2005 Gaza Deportation were Blacks.
 
If the total number of Hamitics exceeds 300,000, then Israel will start to become "schvartzefied", with all that that entails!

[Zelhar]

Do you even live in Israel ? I don't dispute some of your claims but your hatred to anything with dark skin is too obvious.

[galileerat]

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them. If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

[Masha]

There are c150,000 Ethiopian blacks in Israel, together with another c100,000 negroidal Black Hebrews, Bedouins, Sudanese, Eritreans, Nigerians etc.

250 thousand in a small country like Israel - that's a pretty large percentage. If we add the Arabs, the demographics are worrying.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Lubavitcher Rebbe, like most Chassidic Rebbes, himself refused the title of a posek ie he refused to issue definitive Halachic rulings. He left that to the Dayanim of the Chabad Beis Din, who followed his cue.

Lol, enough of the smoke and mirrors...

Plenty of humble rabbis refuse titles and recognitions.   That does not mean some guy with a trashy screenname can come along and type into forums that 'so-and-so was not an authority.'

[Masha]

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them. If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

What is kloloh?

How will they stop existing in the Messianic age?

[muman613]

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them. If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

What is kloloh?

How will they stop existing in the Messianic age?

It means CURSED!

Remember the Curse of Noach on the descendents of Ham?

It was still in effect during the time of Avraham Avinu, since Eliezer his slave was a descendant of Ham, and Avraham would not allow Yitzak to marry the daughter of Eliezer because of the curse...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

LOL, and let me guess, you're "racialist" right?

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them.

 
So?

If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

Hmmm, where do you pull this from?  tafkid?

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

  Not meant to be?  Or not allowed for a certain period of time and circumstance?   And is it G-d who did it to them?   Or are we supposed to perpetuate it with all our power because you think God isn't powerful enough to do it Himself?    Usually a "curse" is not in the hands of man, and it may run it's course...    Are you against that?   Can God end his curses just as he starts them, any way he chooses?

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

 
LOL right, the whole asian and African world should be "subservient" to 'galilee rats' and whatever that entails.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

So?   

You love to pull quotes out of context, then put these vague insinuations without drawing conclusions from them.   Perhaps because your conclusions are illogical and you hide behind the lack of clarity so as to not receive direct criticism.   Maybe you can't own up to what you really wish to conclude from this.

Let's flesh this out a little bit.    Perhaps the Tzemach Tzedek meant hamites in the sense of those who were cursed.   And if the curse has run it's course and now blacks are given "equal rights" aka are treated with dignity in society and given civil treatment and justice in court of law, now it came true what Tzemach Tzedek predicted.   The curse would be over by the messianic times.   And the messianic times of course ushers in this period of goodness in society where once downtrodden people are treated with respect and not viewed as lowly hamites.  Wouldn't that be lovely?

Or perhaps he meant what you think he meant.   Ok, so?   Maybe he was wrong.  This is a strange prediction.   Should we go around massacring "hamites" to make his mistake come true?    LOL, you have to be joking (or sick).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them. If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

What is kloloh?

How will they stop existing in the Messianic age?

It means CURSED!

Remember the Curse of Noach on the descendents of Ham?

It was still in effect during the time of Avraham Avinu, since Eliezer his slave was a descendant of Ham, and Avraham would not allow Yitzak to marry the daughter of Eliezer because of the curse...

I think he meant that more as a rhetorical question, muman.   Meaning that galilee hasn't fully thought out what he is saying.... or...

[muman613]

The Hamites are descendants of Ham. There is a Torah kloloh on all of them. If they fulfil their tafkid of being subservient assistants to the Shemites and Japhetites, all is well.

But they are not meant to be "equals" or have equal rights.

And that includes all Hamites ie Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Koreans etc etc.

The Tzemach Tzedek states that Hamites will not exist in the Messianic Era.

Racism is against the Torah.

But racialism (which is not the same) is a foundation of Torah!

What is kloloh?

How will they stop existing in the Messianic age?

It means CURSED!

Remember the Curse of Noach on the descendents of Ham?

It was still in effect during the time of Avraham Avinu, since Eliezer his slave was a descendant of Ham, and Avraham would not allow Yitzak to marry the daughter of Eliezer because of the curse...

I think he meant that more as a rhetorical question, muman.   Meaning that galilee hasn't fully thought out what he is saying.... or...

Oh, sorry...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Let's put it this way.  Show us in halacha galilee where there is any distinction made between dark skin-type gentiles vs. light skin gentiles.   That we are supposed to act any differently based on skin color or racial composition.    LOL, while you're searching, let us know if you find any flying pigs.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I found it interesting that they let him back on here originally.   Maybe he himself is just racist and chauvinist and not really trying to make all other Jews seem that way, just that he wants them to be but his views are sincerely his.  That must be what motivated them to let him back.   And for sure he is ideologically with JTF too, so I can see that.

But when he posts smut like this, nobody can take his views seriously.   If he is against the current issue of falash mura for a principled reason, that is one thing.   But when the discussion devolves into the 'curse of the hamites' and how asians should be subservient to humanity as a whole, it just proves that the "principle" he is arguing on is really just an excuse and a front for his underlying racism/hatred.   And that in some way discredits all the people on his side of the argument, unfortunately, even if they have good reasons.

If ethiopians are sincere converts and sincere Jews, they can succeed like any other Jew.   The problem is Israeli society is very clique-ish so different 'types' of Jews can make it difficult for certain other 'types'....  And this is not limited to blacks/white or sephardi/ashkenaz.  Even some Jews look at "anglos" in a certain way (askance) because they resent american politics etc.... So, many ethiopians do have a real objection there, and sometimes difficulty integrating, but hopefully in time that will heal , just like for all groups.  One of the greatest strengths of the religious zionist community in my opinion is that they appeal to unity and to integrating all types of Jews in their 'camp'  in the settlements and their schools etc.    I think resenting a Jew because he descends from blacks is a disgrace.

[muman613]

I agree with KWRBT, this Jew is a racist and wants us all to be. This is what StormFont wants to believe about JTF.

I think that all Jews are beautiful people. I see the Jewish neshama in many of the Ethiopian Jews I have met.

I am sorry that this guy had to be banned. His approach is too extreme and I cannot subscribe to his beliefs about Chabad and Chassidus.

[wonga66]

Let's put it this way.  Show us in halacha galilee where there is any distinction made between dark skin-type gentiles vs. light skin gentiles.   That we are supposed to act any differently based on skin color or racial composition.    LOL, while you're searching, let us know if you find any flying pigs.

I can't find any real problems with the facts of GALRAT. Is it possible that we have been blinded by modern scociety and its forced intergration.We must clearly understand that The Torah was writtien by G-d for man and makes it very clear concerning the Hamites.

We can't take a pair of scissors and start snipping away at parts we find hard to accept!

Let's get real people!

This from "Journey in to Greatness" (Rav Miller 1998)  p144:
 
 
"Bamidbar 12:1. CONCERNING THE CUSHITE WOMAN. There are more than one explanation of the identity of this Cushite woman; but here we shall follow most of the commentators that identify her as Zipporah, the Midianite wife of Moshe (Shmos 2:21), who resembled a Cushite because of the dark complexion of her Midianite people. This matter of complexion is actually more important than is usually understood. We must first inquire: Why are Moshe's posterity almost entirely ignored by the To rah? After the mention of his two sons, Gershom and Eliezer, nothing is mentioned of their children. Later we find: "As for Moshe the man of G-d, his sons are named among the tribe of Levi" (I Divre Hayamim 23:14). Rechaviah the son of Eliezer (the son of Moshe) had very many sons (ibid. 23:17). To us it seems puzzling that the descendants of the greatest man in history are not mentioned more emphatically. Most specifically: why were Moshe's chil­dren not made Cohanim, just as was done for the sons of Aharon?
Two answers are available (among others), and these two answers need each other.

1) "Dark-skinned Cohanim would be rejected by the law requiring unblemished men (Vayikra 21:18). Even if the complexion would not actually constitute a blemish, yet
the Cohanim must represent the seed of the Fathers. The principle of "racism" is one of the foundations, and the "seed of the Fathers" is specifically designated in the Covenant of the Fathers ("to be to you a G-d and to your seed after you - Breshis 17:7). All races are eligible for joining the Torah-nation, and for their promise of the Afterlife, but those that officiate in the service of Hashem must symbolise the Fathers and the seed of the Fathers. Therefore the children of the Midianite (Cushite) woman were not elevated to the Cehunah, despite the supreme excellence of their father"

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

*cough*troll*cough*