To die defending the Medinas Yisroel

[FreedomFighter08]

What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.

It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic. Can we get some Torah quotes on rituals such as these.

Btw, the mindset of Reform Jews are, "I don't need to do rituals for G-D to love me. All I have to do is be a good person".

[Yochai]

What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.

It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic. Can we get some Torah quotes on rituals such as these.

Btw, the mindset of Reform Jews are, "I don't need to do rituals for G-D to love me. All I have to do is be a good person".

There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.

That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means.  In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.

[FreedomFighter08]

What am I? I don't believe in wearing Keepah because Moses didn't wear it, neither did Abraham, or even the Jews of the Roman Empire. What I believe is that you just need to be a good person, don't murder, don't steal, don't be a bad person, and G-D will love you. I remember some Rabbis were caught selling Ecstasy (they were Heredis) in the 90s. I'd rather be a good person overall then a guy who spends all of his time doing rituals. I wasn't raised very religious because of Soviet influence on my family but I was always told that there is a G-D watching me and what I do.

I do know that I'm not living true Judaism though. I do fast on Yom Kippur, I go to the synagouge and pray on Yom Kippur, and I was Bar Mitzvahed.

[Moshe92]

Different congregations believe different things.

Every single one in my congregation does, dude.

Bonesfan, I love how you guys sit around complaining about different denominations. Have fun while the muslims are killing us off, thanks.

So you go to a reform synagogue in Haifa, and everyone in your "congregation" believes in Greater Israel? I find that hard to believe.

[Manch]

There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.

That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means.  In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.

And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.

[Yochai]

What am I? I don't believe in wearing Keepah because Moses didn't wear it, neither did Abraham, or even the Jews of the Roman Empire. What I believe is that you just need to be a good person, don't murder, don't steal, don't be a bad person, and G-D will love you. I remember some Rabbis were caught selling Ecstasy (they were Heredis) in the 90s. I'd rather be a good person overall then a guy who spends all of his time doing rituals. I wasn't raised very religious because of Soviet influence on my family but I was always told that there is a G-D watching me and what I do.

I do know that I'm not living true Judaism though. I do fast on Yom Kippur, I go to the synagouge and pray on Yom Kippur, and I was Bar Mitzvahed.

That knowledge greatly separates you from a Reform Jew, because it means you have the capacity to strive towards being a better Jew.  Reform Jews, on the other hand, believe that their type of Judaism is suprior to Orthodoxy, and thus never have any reason to change their ways.

As for a Kippa, yes Jews did wear it in Roman times, and it is in the Talmud, but I can understand your sentiments.

As for just needing to be "a good person", this is simply not true.  What you stated were a few Noachide laws, which all humans are bound to.  Jews being the Chosen People, have much more intense and much more numerous obligations, and this includes rituals and codes of behaviour.

I find it interesting that you are aware that your family's religion was destroyed by the Soviets, yet you don't seem to want to compensate for what they did by returning tothe ways of your forefathers.  You should not let the despicable Soviet authorities continue to harm your sense of Judaism in the year 2009.

[Yochai]

There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.

That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means.  In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.

And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.

If there are Haredim that do not follow the Torah on how to treat their fellow man, they then too are not being good Jews.

Also, rituals and other things like that come from the Torah, which represents the eternal essence of Judaism.  So, one who does not follow the Torah but is a nice person is not practicing Judaism as authentically as one who does follow the Torah, including in their everyday relations with people.

Lastly, I have had the pleasure of being hosted by Haredim in Israel, and it is unfounded to say that the majority of Haredim are morally bankrupt and indecent. THe majority of Haredim follow the Torah, and thus are not morally bankrupt at all.  One cannot deny that their priorities are mixed up, but that is not as a result of malice of or moral bankruptcy.

[The One and Only Mo]

ALL the soldiers know the risks and it is a TREMENDOUS mitzvah.

[Yochai]

ALL the soldiers know the risks and it is a TREMENDOUS mitzvah.

I do not know if I can agree with you on that.

Those who volunteer from Chutz L'Aretz are definitely performing a tremendous Mitzvah in fighting.

I do not know how much of a Mitzvah it is to be drafted and forced to fight, because that does not necessarily guarantee that every soldier will fight hard to defend Eretz Yisrael.  For example, there are many members of Peace Now in Tzahal who refuse to serve in certain places.   These scumbags are by no means performing a Mitzvah just by being members of Tzahal.

As for dying while defending Eretz Yisrael, this is a kiddush hashem, and is one of the greatest mitzvahs one can perform for Am Yisrael.

[muman613]

Reform Jew,

I feel for you and hope that our discussion here has not turned you away from our faith. We are in the month of Elul and we are supposed to be working on bringing unity to Klal Yisroel. We are supposed to be doing the required tikkun {rectification} of our middot {character traits} in our act of Teshuva {return to Hashem}.

Please study deeper our beliefs. Torah is very good for the soul, for the Jewish soul, and for the world. There is so much great wisdom in the holy Scriptures and the Talmud and the writings of our sages... Every day I study Torah at the website http://www.torahanytime.com . Please give a listen to some of the pre-Rosh Hashanna talks and maybe you will be attracted further.

I hope that your Jewish studies increase...

muman613

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Different congregations believe different things.

Every single one in my congregation does, dude.

Hey man, I respect that.   

Reform changes with the winds.   It really does vary from congregation to congregation, almost completely different religions....

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yes I believe in Torah and Mitzvot

and what brought me to these forums were my political beliefs.

Why are you attracted to 'Judaism lite'? The truth is Judaism is much more involved than eating bagels and lox...

He just said he believes in Torah and Mitzvot.   And then you counter about lox and bagels...   I really hope you're not comparing or actually think he refers to lox and bagels when he says something like "I believe in Torah and Mitzvot."  He knows what that means.   This is not your average reform Jew.   So I can appreciate this guy.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What wrong with being Jewish "lite". Most of the IDF soldiers I met are Reform. The reform Jews I know believe in G-D but don't believe in some rituals like wearing keepah and etc.

Most IDF may be secular and/or "traditional" but I assure you, they are NOT reform.   Israel is a different place than America.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

It actually makes sense because I don't think anybody was putting on tefelin 3,500 years ago. I don't think G-D told the Jews to put on tefilin as soon as they invented plastic.

Plastic?        

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.

That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means.  In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.

And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.

Your opinion, but not Judaism's opinion.   When we are commanded to do mitzvot, that does not mean mindless ritualistic, and a guy with a black hat but selling drugs or doing whatever terrible crime while outwardly appearing religious by eating only kosher.    We are commanded to keep the mitzvot AND be a good person is part and parcel of it.   That some people are better able to be a good person than others (or some people are less able to, less willing to, or just plain don't care), does not in any way take away from our obligation to keep mitzvot.   When someone points out that they don't like how a certain haredi person or group acts, and says they don't care about mitzvot because of it, it sounds like people just making excuses.  One thing has got nothing to do with the other.   And as Yochai has pointed out, I assure you that what some people assume to be behavior of large groups of haredim is not generally true.   Some bad apples, like any group, so what?

PART of keeping the mitzvot is to have ahavat Yisrael....  It doesn't supercede everything.   

That's the problem with reform, they tried to take one or two mitzvot and then redefine Judaism as ONLY those one or two while taking away, stifling, minimizing all the rest.   What's left is vapid emptiness without appeal and without spirituality.   But unfortunately haredi are sometimes guilty of the same thing, focusing too much on one or two things and not enough on others (not nearly focused enough on milchemeth misswa for example).   But at the same time, haredim are still loyal to Torah and the tradition.  Reform as a whole just does not have that.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

There is a big difference between secular people who acknowledge they are not living true Judaism, and Reform Jews who yell and scream about how their form of Judaism is just as authentic as Orthodox Judaism.

That mindset that you articulated is not a Jewish idea by any means.  In Judaism, good person means one who follows the mitzvot, so the Reform Jew's defintion, which is formed by Western Liberalism, is unrelated to being Jewish.

And in secular world, being a good person means being a decent person who makes sacrifices for the common good, for his brothers and sisters. This will make majority of Haredim Jews in Israel - morally bankrupt and indecent. So, why do you think that the one who is a ritualistic Jew is better than the one who is secular? In my opinion - Ahavat Israel is just as important as observance, if not more.

If there are Haredim that do not follow the Torah on how to treat their fellow man, they then too are not being good Jews.

Also, rituals and other things like that come from the Torah, which represents the eternal essence of Judaism.  So, one who does not follow the Torah but is a nice person is not practicing Judaism as authentically as one who does follow the Torah, including in their everyday relations with people.

Lastly, I have had the pleasure of being hosted by Haredim in Israel, and it is unfounded to say that the majority of Haredim are morally bankrupt and indecent. THe majority of Haredim follow the Torah, and thus are not morally bankrupt at all.  One cannot deny that their priorities are mixed up, but that is not as a result of malice of or moral bankruptcy.

Well said.  I agree with you here 100%

[wonga66]

According to this http://www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com/newsletters/atillabarak061907.htm
religious Israeli soldiers have died and been deliberately sacrificed by Barak!

Would you obey an order from an unworthy leftist settlement-dismantler like Barak?



And he has the gall to tell soldiers that they must expect to die....for his career and NWO masters he means!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

According to this http://www.thebarrychamishwebsite.com/newsletters/atillabarak061907.htm
religious Israeli soldiers have died and been deliberately sacrificed by Barak!

Would you obey an order from an unworthy leftist settlement-dismantler like Barak?

And he has the gall to tell soldiers that they must expect to die....for his career and NWO masters he means!

You know who writes stuff like this and who buys into it?   Someone looking for an excuse not to serve.  (or perhaps a "justification" for their refraining from doing so).

And I'm NOT talking about chamish here.  He has his own issues.

[The One and Only Mo]

I can type for hours on this topic.............

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I can type for hours on this topic.............

Hm.  That's interesting.  So um... why not.... Type something.   Go ahead.

[GoIsraelGo!]

Liberal Jews are helping the muslims to kill us off. Yes, that is a fact !

Liberal Jews voted for this monster that is now occupying the White House.

Liberal Jews who side with our enemies have turned against their own people and G-d.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Liberal Jews are helping the muslims to kill us off.   etc

Perhaps you posted to the wrong thread.   This has nothing to do with the topic here.   I also don't think your first statement is accurate.   Whatever "liberal Jews" may be doing wrong, none of them do it with any intention to "kill people off" - people of any kind.    Perhaps the worst of them want Israelis killed off, but even that is rare, and certainly not americans.

[GoIsraelGo!]

Liberal Jews exist in Israel, and this thread is about Israel.

Liberal Jews are helping muslims to kill off the Jews, this is true in Israel.

Liberal Jews in Israel are helping the muslims to get more land, that is true, is it not?

Liberal Jews in Israel trusted obama and their realtives here in the US voted for him, is that true or not?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Liberal Jews exist in Israel, and this thread is about Israel.

That is a bit of a stretch.   This thread was about people fighting in the IDF to defend Israel.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Liberal Jews in Israel trusted obama and their realtives here in the US voted for him, is that true or not?

No, that's not true.  Majority of Jew in Israel hate obama.   He's mostly seen as a pariah.   That includes some of the left.   Not that that matters anyway, what's it got to do with Jews in America?    Their "relatives" ?   I'm not sure what you mean by that.   Do leftist Jews in Israel have only liberal relatives?  And do they only live in USA?   Are all family members the same political persuasion?    Not realistic.