Would the death penalty be a huge winning

[Secularbeliever]

issue for Kahanists?  I can't believe the average Israeli is not furious to see murdering savages like Kuntar and Okamoto go free.  Israelis are not reluctant to kill terrorists.  They tracked down and killed the Arabs who perpetrated the Munich Massacre.  They killed two overall leaders of Hamas.  After Rantisi was killed Hamas was afraid to name a replacement.  Chain could repeatedly point out that Begin, Shamir, and Bibi never executed a single terrorist murderer and that the Kahanists will.  This might do for Israeli Kahanists what the Soviet Jewry issue did for American Kahanists.

[takebackourtemple]

Without any doubt this should be done.

[The One and Only Mo]

Another topic I can go on for hours about....

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Maybe they would like to see some terrorists be killed (they better), but I doubt that average Westernized, secular Israelis would really stand for cleaning out the prisons, so to speak. Having been brought up on a steady Bolshevik diet of "human rights" nonsense in schools, universities, and from the television and media, it would be tough for them to wrap their brains around this.

Of course, it's tough to get really accurate polling data on issues like this because so many statements and questions are against the law to publicly voice in Israel.

[Secularbeliever]

Bonesfan

I was in Israel in 1972 right after Okamoto shot up the El Al terminal.  Almost everyone I spoke to thought he should be put to death.  If they knew he would later be traded for Jewish captives it would have been more overwhelming.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yeah, and in 2001 America wanted to kick royal raghead behind as well. Now, Americans feel like the 9/11 pedophiles' "rights" were violated in custody. 

We have very short memories. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Sounds like a good idea.  I'm all for it .  But we need to get Chaim into Israel.   Either that or accept that we will have to make some other Kahanist leader in the meantime for as long as he is kept out.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's a catch-22 in a way. Israelis won't approve of widespread, wholesale application of the death penalty without reeducation by Kahanists, but that will be very difficult without us in power.

What we really need is for the Israeli left to screw up badly, and given how Israelis think that Peepee Lewinsky and Likud are "right wing" and not the left like they actually are, it will be tough for the people to recognize them as such.

[Secularbeliever]

What we really need is for the Israeli left to screw up badly<<Bonesfan

Not trying to put down what you say and I understand it, but what would you call Oslo, the disengagement, the Second Lebanese War, Hamas taking control of Gaza, Gilad Shalit and Operation Cast Lead, the release of Samir Kuntar, etc. etc   if not screw ups?  If none of these matters have turned Israelis hard right, it is hard for me to imagine what event would do so.  I think the real nationalists will need to go out and get the people to turn to us, not hoping for an event to do it for us.

[Secularbeliever]

Bonesfan, I am willing to start with the worst of the worst and see if that has any impact.  Over time I would expand it to anyone who has murdered Jews.  If we started with the murderer of the infant Shellhevet Pass, the animal gleefully waiving his bloody hands in Ramallah, the femal animal who lured the teenage boy to Ramallah where he was murdered, that would be a good start.   Barghouti would be a good one (not likely as the left has him penciled in as the next leader of the Palestinians, how sick is that).  Anyone who ran suicide bombers would make the top of the list.  If we executed 10 or 20 per year it could not hurt.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Good points Secularbeliever. The Israeli general public was on the wrong side of the Gaza "disengagement", the Kuntar release, the Peace House expulsion, etc. They seem to be waking up about Lewinsky's concessions to Obama, but as Chaim pointed last night, are tolerating his expulsions so far.

Executing more than the absolute worst of the worst terrorists (i.e. Barghouti and ilk) would be controversial enough. Executing large numbers of them--let alone their family members, which is what it would really take to have some deterrent effect, would be unthinkable for them at this stage.

The only real answer is for the Israeli people to lose their secular Western "values" and become religious.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What we really need is for the Israeli left to screw up badly<<Bonesfan

Not trying to put down what you say and I understand it, but what would you call Oslo, the disengagement, the Second Lebanese War, Hamas taking control of Gaza, Gilad Shalit and Operation Cast Lead, the release of Samir Kuntar, etc. etc   if not screw ups?  If none of these matters have turned Israelis hard right, it is hard for me to imagine what event would do so.  I think the real nationalists will need to go out and get the people to turn to us, not hoping for an event to do it for us.

I agree with you.   I really don't understand why people here sometimes suggest that the left hasn't done anything wrong to Israel or that the Israeli public isn't already frustrated with them?   The election of rightwing parties to majority this time around, proves that.   As does the tanking of Labor party and rise of Russian party.    I hope these trends will continue, but I certainly think it is reasonable to believe that Israelis are generally tired of the left.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Good points Secularbeliever. The Israeli general public was on the wrong side of the Gaza "disengagement", the Kuntar release, the Peace House expulsion, etc. They seem to be waking up about Lewinsky's concessions to Obama, but as Chaim pointed last night, are tolerating his expulsions so far.

Where do you see that the public approved Kuntar release?    No, the lack of a revolution in the streets (while it would be nice) does NOT constitute proof of approval. 

As to gaza disengagement.  I don't know about the public, but the likud held a referendum and likud voted it down.  Sharon ignored the referendum.   At that point it doesn't matter what the public approves or doesn't approve of.   The politicians feel they have a divine mandate to do whatever they fancy.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Where do you see that the public approved Kuntar release?    No, the lack of a revolution in the streets (while it would be nice) does NOT constitute proof of approval.

At the time, a national poll was taken showing either 60% or 65% approval (I forget which) for the actions.

As to gaza disengagement.  I don't know about the public, but the likud held a referendum and likud voted it down.  Sharon ignored the referendum.   At that point it doesn't matter what the public approves or doesn't approve of.   The politicians feel they have a divine mandate to do whatever they fancy.

Did you listen to Chaim's response to you? He said the same thing that he did at the time, that the people were much more willing to trust and put faith in an appeasement/suicide policy put forth by a respected "right-wing" military leader than they would Barak or Olmert and that the Israeli right was demoralized by Sharon's commanding ability to get public opinion on his side. Every national poll taken at the time showed at least a 60% approval rating.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Where do you see that the public approved Kuntar release?    No, the lack of a revolution in the streets (while it would be nice) does NOT constitute proof of approval.

At the time, a national poll was taken showing either 60% or 65% approval (I forget which) for the actions.

[/quote]

There is no reason to believe any of those phony polls.   That is called the media doing the govt's bidding to feign public support for disastrous policy.   Displaying this prominently in the media the day before the event will dampen the perceived injustice and limit the response.   They knew what they were doing.    I do not believe these fake polls for a second.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

These polls came out months ahead of time, and there were several of them.

Likud members might have opposed the withdrawal on the referendum, but they are less than half of all Israeli voters. 100% of Labor and Mapam voters supported it and about 40% of Likud did.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

These polls came out months ahead of time, and there were several of them.

edit to correct my post:

The polls I saw on Kuntar were less than a month before.   When the deal was in the making.

Ynet and haaretz toted the same supposed poll numbers.

[Secularbeliever]

In some ways this shows how people look to leaders to decide how they should think.  When Sharon ran for reelection his opponent, Mitzna, favored a very modest pullout from Gaza.  Sharon strongly opposed him and won big.  So you can say that Israelis were against a unilateral pullout from Gaza.  It is true that Likud members voted down the expulsion 60 to 40.  However, it is also probably true that Labor members would probably have been 90-10 in favor and of course Arab parties 100-0.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

As far as I am concerned Labor party supporters are worse than the Arabs.