Why do Jewish women have to be so Damn Liberal?

[or_ly]

What is damn liberal?

[Nic Brookes]

What is damn liberal?

The whole of America and the UK 

(joke  )

[or_ly]

And what is "Jdate"?

[saintaugusto]

Firstly, Jesus was a Pharasee (Rabbinical) Jew.  Jesus would have been an Orthodox Jew and well learned in both Torah and the Oral Law not a deformed (Reform) Jew.  All credable evidence places this issue in the earliest texts by Josephus Flavus which was obviously a distortion to carry favor with the now Christianized Romans.

I am not talking about the origin of Jesus, but his practical actions. He was the first to "reform" or "deform" Judaism.

[saintaugusto]

What you have stated above is totally Christianity and nothing whatsoever dealing with Judaism.

I think you should remove this prejudice by thinking that I might be Christian and that what drives me.

[mord]

What is damn liberal?

Smolim or peres, peretz, olmert, dana olmert, shalom acshav yesh g'vual they are liberals

[saintaugusto]

The only thing that Jews have to thank the Muslim horde for is oppression, forced converstion, sub-human taxation and treatment, exploitation when they need something, rape or murder.

1) Jews suffered much worse under Christians.
2) Jews assimilated more under Chistians. I don't care wether it's Socialism, Capitalism, or Alpinism.
3) Of course, Muslims did not treat Jews as kings. But who should treat you as a king, if you don't know your worth and don't defend yourself.

You want a fair treatment? Do not let anyone expel you from your homeland and be a king in your own land.

[saintaugusto]

We where the ones who gave women their rights and treated them with equality...

You were the ones, I was not one of you. And guess who is complaining now. Not me.

[saintaugusto]

Sorry brother but you know nothing about Judaism my friend.

You remember what HaRav Meir Kahane said about knowing and defaming?

[saintaugusto]

And let me ask you something, since it looks like you are very versed in history. Who libirated Israel? Were those Zionists religios or secular (reform etc.) Jews?

[mord]

The First Jews in Israel were orthodox.The first shomrim who guarsed israel were made up of mainly bucharian Jews who were religious

[saintaugusto]

I asked who primarily took part in liberating Israel from the British and Arabs in 1940's?

[Nic Brookes]

And what is "Jdate"?

A dating site for Jews, as far as I am aware.

[MarZutra]

I think you should remove this prejudice by thinking that I might be Christian and that what drives me.

Nothing prejudice whatsoever...look at your name... it is only a logical guess.

1) Jews suffered much worse under Christians.
2) Jews assimilated more under Chistians. I don't care wether it's Socialism, Capitalism, or Alpinism.
3) Of course, Muslims did not treat Jews as kings. But who should treat you as a king, if you don't know your worth and don't defend yourself.

You want a fair treatment? Do not let anyone expel you from your homeland and be a king in your own land.

Very much true but also debatable actually.  Perhaps longer under Christians.  At certain times and better under Christians other times worse.... back and forth my friend...back and forth.  When times were harsh under Christianity many Jews fled to the Arab States.  A good example is the Jews under the Ottoman Empire.  When Islam was harsh the reverse situation occured.  You are largely accurate.  "Jews of Islam" - Bernard Lewish and "The Dhimmi" - Bat Yeor are two very good books on this specific subject.  2) Is not true at all unless one is speaking about forced conversions...  As a matter of fact one need not look further than the Emancipation/Enlightenment under Germany or France for which many Jews left their faith primarily from Christian anti-semitism, Ghettos and Czarist Pogroms in Russia for which many turned to Judaism and Communism: the concept of Deformed Judaism is the prime example.  3) I'm not going to entertain this comment... sorry. 

You were the ones, I was not one of you. And guess who is complaining now. Not me.

I am not complaining whatsoever, just displaying a factual response.  I do not mean to be rude but pointing out fact....It was Judaism who invented the concepts of morality and equality between Men and Woman under HaShem.

You remember what HaRav Meir Kahane said about knowing and defaming?

Not defaming whatsoever, just pointing out a blatant fact of reality by your earlier posts and position re: Judaism.  Not defaming.... stating fact...and to I was direct and polite in doing such to be quite honest.

I asked who primarily took part in liberating Israel from the British and Arabs in 1940's?

In the 1940's it was the Revisionists under Begin and Yitzak Shamir both formerly under Jabbotinsky while the Labor Zionists (Jewish Socialists) under Gurion's Mapai Party controlled the Hagganah who turned them on the Revisionists while working for the British to keep Zion closed during WW2.  In all actuality it was the followers of Jabbotinsky that liberated Zion from the British.  It was their bombing of the King David Hotel and other Military targets to drive out the British.....  Is that acceptable? 

[saintaugusto]

In the 1940's it was the Revisionists under Begin and Yitzak Shamir both formerly under Jabbotinsky while the Labor Zionists (Jewish Socialists) under Gurion's Mapai Party controlled the Hagganah who turned them on the Revisionists while working for the British to keep Zion closed during WW2.  In all actuality it was the followers of Jabbotinsky that liberated Zion from the British.  It was their bombing of the King David Hotel and other Military targets to drive out the British.....  Is that acceptable?

Brilliant. They were not orthodox Jews, were they?

[MarZutra]

Some were and some were Right wing Nationalists.  Most of the religious ones stayed in the Irgun while those from the nationalist camp split and went to the Lahey.

[saintaugusto]

So, you don't think that one has to be orthodox and "know Judaism" in order to love Jews, love Israel, and be ready to fight and die for Israel?

[Shlomo]

Do you know what I never understood? Why are there so many liberal Orthodox Jews? I mean... how can you make that work with the Bible? I could understand if they were Reform... but Orthodox? I never understood this. Perhaps it's not this way in Israel.

[Lisa]

My Iranian born brother in law is an observant Jew, and an Islamophile, who thinks American culture is degenerate.  He LOVED Yitzkhak Rabin, and is all in favor of giving up land to the Arabs. 

[MarZutra]

So, you don't think that one has to be orthodox and "know Judaism" in order to love Jews, love Israel, and be ready to fight and die for Israel?

One has to be Orthodox to know Torah true Judaism as well the Oral Law all of which is largely missed within the Conservative and Deformed "Jewish" movements.  That, of course, is not needed to love Jews, love Israel and ready to fight and die for the Land....The Land of Israel..NOT the State.  To be honest I'm very well versed in factually correct and "poltically correct" history but still largely an ignoramus in Judaism...but still continually learning.

Do you know what I never understood? Why are there so many liberal Orthodox Jews? I mean... how can you make that work with the Bible? I could understand if they were Reform... but Orthodox? I never understood this. Perhaps it's not this way in Israel.

It is because they are ignorant to many social and political ideologies in my opinion.  They may be frauds and they may well be very well knowledge in Judaism but on the take and corrupt.  This is solely my opinion.  In all actuality it cannot work because all Leftist ideologies are based on the substitution of man/state in the place of the Eternal One: HaShem be it Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, Nazism or Communism....  Of course, like Nazism and many others combines traditional socialism with pagan Gnosticism....  I'd say it exists because Jews who study Torah attempt to switch and learn outside of the pale and get taken in by the massive bombardment of "politically correct" agenda and not factually correct moral/logical Conservatism...

My Iranian born brother in law is an observant Jew, and an Islamophile, who thinks American culture is degenerate.  He LOVED Yitzkhak Rabin, and is all in favor of giving up land to the Arabs. 

Sorry, I must say that your brother in-law is benighted.  He may be observant but he is a very good example of my post above of learned Jews attempting to enter into logic outside the moral pale.  Rabin was a Socialist with a massive Labor media complex behind him to "progress" the Socialist agenda.  Many people have no idea what Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism, Nazism, Communism etc. actually are, their agenda, their pillars and how they work.  Give your brother inlaw any number of books to understand what really is happening to get a grasp on the illness of his thought.  1. "To Eliminate The Opiate" - Rabbi Marvin Antelman  2. "Fabian Freeway" - Rose Martin  3. "The Rise of Radicalism", 3. "World War 3 the War on the Jews" - Eugene Narrett  4. "Shadows of Power" - Perloff  5. "The Hidden Government" - Dan Smoot  6. "The Naked Communist/Capitalists" - C. Skousen....  From the leftwing  "Tragedy & Hope"/"The Ango-American Establisment" - C. Quigley, or "Fire in the Minds of Men"....  The best books are by Dr. Antony Sutton or "New Lies for Old" - Golitsyn...  Enjoy... it is a very touchy but very important topic that all must have a very good grasp on in this day of such debasement...

[saintaugusto]

What bothers me is that Orthodox Jews, with all due respect to them, were scholar and observant, but they were observant in exile, and did almost nothing to reinstate the state of Israel. They were even condemning Zionists some time ago. Now, if you don't like the goyim nation you lived in, you could do two things: a) go back to Israel, b) stop saying that you are more Jewish than others. But they did neither of those.

Thus, my point is - Rely on G-d, but don't screw up yourself.

[MarZutra]

What bothers me is that Orthodox Jews, with all due respect to them, were scholar and observant, but they were observant in exile, and did almost nothing to reinstate the state of Israel. They were even condemning Zionists some time ago. Now, if you don't like the goyim nation you lived in, you could do two things: a) go back to Israel, b) stop saying that you are more Jewish than others. But they did neither of those.

Thus, my point is - Rely on G-d, but don't screw up yourself.

I don't know where you get off saying this stuff quite frankly.  Many Orthodox Jews were a part of the Revisionist movement under Jabbotinsky.  The only reason you don't hear about them is because Israel and the Jewish Establisment, plus all..or most... of the media is run by the Socialists Left.  A good example of their censorship can be noticed now with them trying to take Michael Savage off the air....  You are thinking of the Hassidim not the Orthodox Jews....  Many Orthodox Jews like Rabbi Meir Kahane were fully behind the Religious Zionist camp with Jabbotinsky.  I have NEVER said I was more Jewish than anyone else.  I have no problem with going back to Israel and I shall do so in the near future.  I do more than rely on G-d as we are supposed to do deed as well as faith.  Believe me, I am not screwing up myself.  As a matter of fact, if you ask my Member of Parliament I'm probably more supportive of Canada as a Christian nation than 99% of most Christians in Canada.  So I do not know where you are coming from with these insults..

[jdl4ever]

It's not a Jewish women problem, it's a general problem with all women.  They tend to be mostly liberal. 

As a response to saintaugusto, you shouldn't be so quick to criticize the past generations.  1-Some religious Jews and Rabbis were bigger Zionists that the secular and the Irgun and Haganah which were mostly religious undergound movements were the ones who did the dirty work that liberated Israel.  Without them, we might not have a state today.  2-Before the Crusades, thousands of religious Jews lived in Israel but during the Crusades they were driven out or killed.  3-You have no clue what life was like 100 years ago.  We are pampered compared to these Jews.  They were too busy doing whatever they can to stay alive and make a meager living to support a religious family than to think about taking over Israel, which took months of travel to get to and was basically a barren land with hostile Arabs.  Even thought what they did was wrong, you and I would not have done any better.  Trust me.  For example, I am pretty sure that my great grandfather Zs'l was in Kishenov during the progrom there at the turn of the century.  You blame these people who had so much suffering and problems for not taking on a very risky and dangerous venture?

[saintaugusto]

I don't blame. I just deem it weird that only Jews were expelled from their homeland so many times and no one else.

What I am suggesting is, instead of dividing Jews into orthodox and reform, conservative and modern, lets unite. There are only 15 million of us left.

We need to unite not based on what Halakha we have, but on the fact that we are children of One G-d and One Land.

That is, the uniting factors must be Faith and Nationalism. And not how religious you are. Trust me, if Israel becomes a safer place for all Jews, orthodox or conservative Jews will become majority sooner or later, thanks to their faith and lifestyle.

So lets not divide something that we dont have yet. Priority now is to save Israel. And for that we have to unite.

[saintaugusto]

And coming back to the women issue... In order for women to act like women, men have to act like men. And please don't tell me that Torah doesn't appoint men as superior to women. You don't have to be a Rabbi to figure this out.
Men have to rule and hold at least 51% in a family. Period.