Chaim flays the "unbelievably evil" Shas Party!

[Nonny]

On this audio clip http://www.bestsharing.com/files/gqfWPc265042/shas.wav.html
Chaim flay's Shas, the largest Haredi party in Israel, as being "unbelievably evil".

And also its leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, who is besottedly revered by all Sefardi Jews, as "Ovadia Kessef", "a degenerate", "completely and utterly insane", "senile", "a moron" etc etc.

Shas and Yosef supported Oslo and still support "Land for Peace" in exchange for a "genuine peace" on grounds of "pikuach nefesh".!

Chayim may have a point.

The Cohen Gadol Shevna had even more talmidim than King Hezekiah.

Yet because he also supported "Land for Peace" by giving away parts of Eretz Yisrael in an attempt to appease Sancherev, Hashem labelled him, the "Ovadiya Yosef" (+Rav Shach, Chief Rabbis Jakobovitz, Sacks, Lau, Bakshi Doron, Harris, Rabbis Noach Weinberg, Norman Lamm, Jonathan Rosenblum, Michael Melchior, Aryeh Deri, Shlomoh Riskin, Berel Wein, Belzer Rebbe, Satmar, Neturei Karta etc etc etc - ie most of today's Orthodox world!)  of his day and his followers (the Shas Party+Aguda+Degel Hatorah etc etc etc) party of his day as a קשר רשעים - "a confederacy of the wicked" (Sanhedrin 26)!

[TheCoon]

Ovadia Yossef is very likely senile and schizophrenic. He's made some great comments but the enemies of Israel but also terrible comments about Christians and non-Jews in general. His support for Oslo shows he cannot be considered a true religious leader.

[Trumpeldor]

Judaism must never have a Pope.

[dawntreader]

Trumpeldor never said a truer word!

[jdl4ever]

I saw Ovadia Yosef once visiting a Sephardic Synagague a was praying at but I didn't go shake his hand afterwards like everyone else in the synagague since I didn't like him. 

[HEBREWHONOR]

FIRST OF ALL - with all of my support towards jtf programs
This i cannot agree with

its written "hoach tochiach et amitecha "

listen to me , ITS FORBIDDEN HALACHICALLY TO CURSE A TALMID CHAHAM ! (great torah scholar)
Its not right , even if u dont agree , then support a talmid chaham u do agree with , but there is no halacha which allow u to curse a tsadik/talmid chaham which u dont agree with !
its a sin !( it is !)

now , about the accusations

1. the idea you are speaking about (giving land for "true peace") is based upon an hallacical point (i dont say u need to agree with it, there are alot of talmidim chahamim who dont and prove its forbbiden to give lands, but still its within the framework of halacha) This is only somthing they "use" to manipulate the israeli big parties to give budgets  to their torah schools and other things they need it for , While beliving they could rely on them for their goals

The truth is , Shas only say this , in order to manipulate the left , Because they are saying "its ok to give some lands (which are not of high quality ,and puplated, or needed for the defending etc.)  FOR "TRUE PEACE" , however , They know as well that "shalom im mehabla la yitakayam" (a qoute of hefetz haim i belive ."peace with the terrorists will not exsist" , it was said before the israeli state was decleared )

So in theory , its like this (what they are saying) "for 'real peace' u can give some lands'(what they are saying, not me) "but we already know from our sources , that there wont be a real peace untill messiah come"

that is whats it all about , its not real plan to give lands , chas ve chalila .

2. shas did not support oslo , They only gave the impression they will on the first vote , However they later told rabin(sort of) "we see that the arabs arn't sincire , so we will not support it anylonger"

AND THEY VOTED AGAINST OSLO PLAN on vote b and c

Know this , the only reason Rabin goverment was able to do the oslo thing , Is because of a traitor from the party of refael eitan z"l ,
his name was "gonen segev" , HE HAS SOLD OUT , BETRAYED , AND THATS HOW RABIN HAD 61 MEMBERS OF THE KNESSET AND COULD DO HIS PLAN (shas was against it , they were with the 59 who voted against it !)

thats the truth ! learn history !

3. rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a , Is one of the greatest torah scholars in modern history , Most jews consider him 'gadol ha dor' (the greatest torah scholar of our generation)
his rulings is accepted by most spharadim , and he is respected in all streams of orthodox judaism.

4. shas people are usually kahanist (yeah!) , Even the rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a son , Is a proclaimed kahanist , rabbi yaakov yosef shalita , which is a talmid chaham as well
If u enter almost any shas yeshiva or kolel , U will see that rabbi meir kahane hy'd books are actually known by most of them , and advocating of reading them , while kahanist materials are common withing this places

and belive me i know , cuz i am a haredi spharadi and and the first reading of kahane materials ,was given to me from 100% shas people

[Nonny]

"Do not join a רשע even for a good cause" (Avos d'R.Noson 9).

For keeping successive evil governments afloat in exchange for $$$, R.Ovadiya, R.Aryeh Deri, R.Eli Yishai, and some of their acolytes, sycophants, sinecures and devotees will on Judgement Day face an awesome Din, sufficient even to undo all their good deeds and mitzvos!

Korach, Doeg, Achitophel, Yerovam ben Navat, Shimi, Shevna, Acher etc etc were also very great Talmidei Chachomim, but Hashem's verdict was they they were wicked men.

There are references to a Talmid Chacham Shed - the "Demon Torah Scholar" who will appear before Moshiach to trick Jews with false Halachot, such as "Land for Peace" being permitted.

Among other candidates, R.Ovadiya Yosef and R.Eliezer Shach (here seen together) have been claimed by some to be this entity!

[HEBREWHONOR]

nonny - Youre quote equals bring a quote about punishing a theif ,while speaking about sahar ha tsadik . It have nothing to do with it ,because he's a tsadik

rabbi meir kahane alav hashalom ,also had some arguements with him , He did not start cursing him out of it halila , rabbi kahane said even about the setmar rabbi teachings , that his teachings are in the framework of halacha ,even though its a big arguement

+ i'm getting the feeling sometimes( though i know its not really that true about chaim and jtf) that u actually looking for people to curse and fight with , Its not logical , If u have arguement , argue about it , But dont go banning off people who argue with u within the framework of halacha, Its just not toranical selution

anyway ,u wrote "Among other candidates, R.Ovadiya Yosef and R.Eliezer Shach (here seen together) have been claimed by some to be this entity!"

show me the original quote first.
secondley , WHO CARES what "some" had claimed?

i'm not gonne defend someone who i think is false in toranic level who being considered talmid chaham

but youre abselutley wrong when it comes to rabbi ovadia yosef, which is a real talmid chaham , and is tsadik

Btw, Its should really be mentioned that shas was the only "religious" party in the knesset which was against expulsion plan , And fougth against it , and did not sat with that evil goverment even though its really hurted their income for toranical goals

and again i remind , THEY DIDN'T SUPPORTED THE OSLO PLAN , THEY VOTED AGAINST IT ON VOTING B & C , and as far as i think , they even did not voted in favor of it in vote a , just didn't voted against it on that count , mabey someone know and can shade more light about the first vote

so based on what is youre claim that shas is so "evil" chalila?!

rabbi ovadia yosef cursed the arabs on public scale , He called them rats and snakes etc. and the only reason shas wasn't banned for this , Is because the junta of the high court of injestice , were scared by their strength and popularity back in those days and belived that they will support peace ( as i said , its a manipulation , never said i support it by the way, but thats what it is)

p.s: rabbi shach was a talmid chaham too , and did alot for torah schools and goals

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Nonny and any 1 else who jumps to judge people (expecially big Rabbis)should be very careful. I for one also had this problem before, and I hope that I am forgiven for my past judgements. Different Tzaddikim have different opinions about how to make battle against the Sitra Ahra-Eruz Rav, Ishmael and Edom, sometimes what seems the right way for one person or Tzaddik isnt the course of another,  The main thing for regular people like us it to attach ourselves to a True Tzaddik and with him do the right necessary battles at the right time, etc. (ex- attaching ourselves to Rabbi Kahane's teaching's which is Rabbis Kahane's soul)

[Mifletzet]

As usual, Ovadiya Yosef saves the day!

Propping up Olmert and Peres (who some rabbis identify as being the anti-Moshiach "Armilus"!) in exchange for money.

Maybe Chaim was right about him and Shas when he said that they are "unbelievably evil"!.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/860219.html

[Dominater96]

FIRST OF ALL - with all of my support towards jtf programs
This i cannot agree with

its written "hoach tochiach et amitecha "

listen to me , ITS FORBIDDEN HALACHICALLY TO CURSE A TALMID CHAHAM ! (great torah scholar)
Its not right , even if u dont agree , then support a talmid chaham u do agree with , but there is no halacha which allow u to curse a tsadik/talmid chaham which u dont agree with !
its a sin !( it is !)

now , about the accusations

1. the idea you are speaking about (giving land for "true peace") is based upon an hallacical point (i dont say u need to agree with it, there are alot of talmidim chahamim who dont and prove its forbbiden to give lands, but still its within the framework of halacha) This is only somthing they "use" to manipulate the israeli big parties to give budgets  to their torah schools and other things they need it for , While beliving they could rely on them for their goals

The truth is , Shas only say this , in order to manipulate the left , Because they are saying "its ok to give some lands (which are not of high quality ,and puplated, or needed for the defending etc.)  FOR "TRUE PEACE" , however , They know as well that "shalom im mehabla la yitakayam" (a qoute of hefetz haim i belive ."peace with the terrorists will not exsist" , it was said before the israeli state was decleared )

So in theory , its like this (what they are saying) "for 'real peace' u can give some lands'(what they are saying, not me) "but we already know from our sources , that there wont be a real peace untill messiah come"

that is whats it all about , its not real plan to give lands , chas ve chalila .

2. shas did not support oslo , They only gave the impression they will on the first vote , However they later told rabin(sort of) "we see that the arabs arn't sincire , so we will not support it anylonger"

AND THEY VOTED AGAINST OSLO PLAN on vote b and c

Know this , the only reason Rabin goverment was able to do the oslo thing , Is because of a traitor from the party of refael eitan z"l ,
his name was "gonen segev" , HE HAS SOLD OUT , BETRAYED , AND THATS HOW RABIN HAD 61 MEMBERS OF THE KNESSET AND COULD DO HIS PLAN (shas was against it , they were with the 59 who voted against it !)

thats the truth ! learn history !

3. rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a , Is one of the greatest torah scholars in modern history , Most jews consider him 'gadol ha dor' (the greatest torah scholar of our generation)
his rulings is accepted by most spharadim , and he is respected in all streams of orthodox judaism.

4. shas people are usually kahanist (yeah!) , Even the rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a son , Is a proclaimed kahanist , rabbi yaakov yosef shalita , which is a talmid chaham as well
If u enter almost any shas yeshiva or kolel , U will see that rabbi meir kahane hy'd books are actually known by most of them , and advocating of reading them , while kahanist materials are common withing this places

and belive me i know , cuz i am a haredi spharadi and and the first reading of kahane materials ,was given to me from 100% shas people

Hebrew Honor these RESHAIM dont care. You can look at the forum from about a month ago, they were cursing him, and calling him all disgusting names. They are apikorsim, who dont believe in the halacha.  IN this post alone he was called "a degenerate", "completely and utterly insane", "senile", "a moron" etc etc.

And if you want to know Rabbi Kahane's HY"D opinion on Rav Shach, and the Satmar Rav, listen to his speech at YU, in this link. Within the first 10 minutes he mentions them.  Its called "A Torah Shiur At YU"
http://kahane.org/audio.htm

[Dr. Dan]

FIRST OF ALL - with all of my support towards jtf programs
This i cannot agree with

its written "hoach tochiach et amitecha "

listen to me , ITS FORBIDDEN HALACHICALLY TO CURSE A TALMID CHAHAM ! (great torah scholar)
Its not right , even if u dont agree , then support a talmid chaham u do agree with , but there is no halacha which allow u to curse a tsadik/talmid chaham which u dont agree with !
its a sin !( it is !)

now , about the accusations

1. the idea you are speaking about (giving land for "true peace") is based upon an hallacical point (i dont say u need to agree with it, there are alot of talmidim chahamim who dont and prove its forbbiden to give lands, but still its within the framework of halacha) This is only somthing they "use" to manipulate the israeli big parties to give budgets  to their torah schools and other things they need it for , While beliving they could rely on them for their goals

The truth is , Shas only say this , in order to manipulate the left , Because they are saying "its ok to give some lands (which are not of high quality ,and puplated, or needed for the defending etc.)  FOR "TRUE PEACE" , however , They know as well that "shalom im mehabla la yitakayam" (a qoute of hefetz haim i belive ."peace with the terrorists will not exsist" , it was said before the israeli state was decleared )

So in theory , its like this (what they are saying) "for 'real peace' u can give some lands'(what they are saying, not me) "but we already know from our sources , that there wont be a real peace untill messiah come"

that is whats it all about , its not real plan to give lands , chas ve chalila .

2. shas did not support oslo , They only gave the impression they will on the first vote , However they later told rabin(sort of) "we see that the arabs arn't sincire , so we will not support it anylonger"

AND THEY VOTED AGAINST OSLO PLAN on vote b and c

Know this , the only reason Rabin goverment was able to do the oslo thing , Is because of a traitor from the party of refael eitan z"l ,
his name was "gonen segev" , HE HAS SOLD OUT , BETRAYED , AND THATS HOW RABIN HAD 61 MEMBERS OF THE KNESSET AND COULD DO HIS PLAN (shas was against it , they were with the 59 who voted against it !)

thats the truth ! learn history !

3. rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a , Is one of the greatest torah scholars in modern history , Most jews consider him 'gadol ha dor' (the greatest torah scholar of our generation)
his rulings is accepted by most spharadim , and he is respected in all streams of orthodox judaism.

4. shas people are usually kahanist (yeah!) , Even the rabbi ovadia yosef shalit"a son , Is a proclaimed kahanist , rabbi yaakov yosef shalita , which is a talmid chaham as well
If u enter almost any shas yeshiva or kolel , U will see that rabbi meir kahane hy'd books are actually known by most of them , and advocating of reading them , while kahanist materials are common withing this places

and belive me i know , cuz i am a haredi spharadi and and the first reading of kahane materials ,was given to me from 100% shas people

thank you for your comment.

[Mifletzet]

And if you want to know Rabbi Kahane's HY"D opinion on Rav Shach, and the Satmar Rav, listen to his speech at YU, in this link. Within the first 10 minutes he mentions them.http://kahane.org/audio.htm

He mentions them, but he doesn't give his opinion. Did they ever give their opinion of Kahane?!

[Dominater96]

But Rav Kahane does say ZT"L after mentioning the Satmar Rav. And he says if Rav Shach an anti-zionist comes to speak ( he mentions Rav Shach obviously because he is a talmid hacham ).

[Mifletzet]

The fact that the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach were anti-Zionist and anti-State of Israel is understandable.

Most Haredi rabbis (including the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe) until the 60s were.

And they may even have had Torah support for their opinion.

The Satmar Rebbe's Kuntres al Hageulah v'al Hatemurah said that the Medinat Yisrael has a flawed foundation that is of actual demonic origin (he actually names the demon!).

And he may be right! The State of Israel has a definite demonic aspect to it. No one is a bigger Zionist than Prof Eidelberg. Yet even he says that "today, the biggest enemy of the People of Israel is the State of Israel!".

But for being prepared, even if only in priciple, or by supporting sessessionist governments, to cede land for peace ie putting millions of Jews in danger, in violation of the Halacha, for that, Ravs Shach and Yosef in particular, gravely erred.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I appear to be a couple of weeks behind this thread, but why is Nonny (a Revava troll) making posts that appear to support Chaim?

[kahaneloyalist]

The fact that the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach were anti-Zionist and anti-State of Israel is understandable.

Most Haredi rabbis (including the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe) until the 60s were.

And they may even have had Torah support for their opinion.

The Satmar Rebbe's Kuntres al Hageulah v'al Hatemurah said that the Medinat Yisrael has a flawed foundation that is of actual demonic origin (he actually names the demon!).

And he may be right! The State of Israel has a definite demonic aspect to it. No one is a bigger Zionist than Prof Eidelberg. Yet even he says that "today, the biggest enemy of the People of Israel is the State of Israel!".

But for being prepared, even if only in priciple, or by supporting sessessionist governments, to cede land for peace ie putting millions of Jews in danger, in violation of the Halacha, for that, Ravs Shach and Yosef in particular, gravely erred.

Rabbi Kahane zt'l never felt that the State of Israel was demonic chas v'shalom. Learn the Sefer Eim HaBanim Semiechah to understand the correct Halachic view of Secular Zionism, the view Rabbi Kahane zt'l accepted.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

The fact that the Satmar Rebbe and Rav Shach were anti-Zionist and anti-State of Israel is understandable.

Most Haredi rabbis (including the 6th Lubavitcher Rebbe) until the 60s were.

And they may even have had Torah support for their opinion.

The Satmar Rebbe's Kuntres al Hageulah v'al Hatemurah said that the Medinat Yisrael has a flawed foundation that is of actual demonic origin (he actually names the demon!).

And he may be right! The State of Israel has a definite demonic aspect to it. No one is a bigger Zionist than Prof Eidelberg. Yet even he says that "today, the biggest enemy of the People of Israel is the State of Israel!".

But for being prepared, even if only in priciple, or by supporting sessessionist governments, to cede land for peace ie putting millions of Jews in danger, in violation of the Halacha, for that, Ravs Shach and Yosef in particular, gravely erred.

Why do you post here if you believe that Israel is demonic?

[Mifletzet]

Not the Land of Israel.

But the State of Israel and its institutions have a part of the impure in them.

Look at the Knesset and those in it! Some of the them are actually human demons - what Chazal call sheidin yehudayin - "Jewish Demons".

As Prof Eidelberg points out, the very founding statement of the State of Israel is flawed, on many counts, and even starts with a falsehood: "The Land of Israel was the birthplace of the Jewish People”.  Yet the Children of Israel were called a “people” as well as a “nation” already before the Exodus.

To compound that falsehood, the document goes on to say that in the Land of Israel “they first attained to statehood, created cultural values of national and universal significance and gave to the world the eternal Book of Books”.

To say that the Jews created is tacitly to deny the Sinaitic Revelation and Divine origin of the Torah.
 
It does not even mention the Name of G-d or refer to the Creator, the only founding document of any nation outside of the former atheistic Communist nations. Thus it fails on even the most minimal level the very purpose of the People of Israel: "This people I have created for Me that they may relate My praise" (Yeshaya 43).

It is said that had the Name of Hashem Elokim Elokei Yisrael been included in it, the Moshiach would have come then and there on 14 May 1948!
 
Indeed the only name mentioned in the document is that of Theodore Herzl, whom it calls "the spiritual father of the Jewish State", even though he was totally unobservant and a disavower of the Torah!
 
The Declaration states that "we are hereby founding a Jewish state", but then contradicts itself by declaring that it will "grant complete equality of political rights to ALL its citizens", thus ensuring that an Arab majority, which ceteris paribus will occur by 2050, some say already by 2025, will be able to democratically vote the state of existence! etc etc