Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On Shabbat no fire?
rhodescholar:
--- Quote --- When Hashem gave Moshe the Torah he taught him everything that every generation would ever encounter and the solutions to it.
--- End quote ---
I apologise, and not to be rude, but that statement is not factual.
--- Quote --- That included "lights on shabbos". There is no Jewish people without the Torah,
--- End quote ---
Also, not true. Hitler did not ask if a person followed the torah, he asked if they were jewish, and killed them. Judaism is a race IMO, not a religion. Our enemies have never made this distinction, and neither will I.
--- Quote --- so if you don't follow the Torah because you don't believe it in it, then how could you believe anything it says, which includes your very Judaism?
--- End quote ---
As I mentioned above, I find religion as it is taught and practiced to be, to be polite, invalid.
--- Quote --- The point of loving G-d is following things even if you don't understand it. There doesn't have to be logic to it. Religion isn't based on logic, it's based on faith.
--- End quote ---
Spoken like a true communist, or islamist, or...
I have spent my entire life fighting totalitarianisms, where you were supposed to accept and obey some authority figure's statements "on faith."
I am afraid at this time I am unable to accept a doctrine not supported by scientific evidence. I have been, like a ship at sea, steadily moving in this direction away from organized religion for quite some time now.
While I would never wish to negatively impact or prevent others from practicing what their "faith" provides them, I simply cannot accept a religion "because someone says so."
--- Quote --- Faith can't be proven with science. To the believer, there are no questions.
--- End quote ---
There are those who believe that once you cease asking questions - meaning, you are unwilling to challenge and pursue truth - you are completely more lost than the religious here would believe me to be ;)
--- Quote --- To the non-believer there are no answers. It doesn't matter if we don't understand, we still have to follow, and THAT is TRUE faith.
--- End quote ---
No answers as presented by the religion, but it does not mean one cannot pursue and find them elsewhere.
-----------------------
Look, as I get older and face my own mortality, it is certainly infinitely more comforting to think that should I pre-decease my children (hopefully, as all parents should) I will get to see them again in some kind of after-life.
My beliefs at this point operate in a grey area, where my innate, strong desire to find an inalienable "truth" is combatted by these feelings of mortality, and will probably require many more years of thought and reflection before the 2 sides can be resolved.
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 13, 2009, 10:19:11 AM ---
--- Quote --- When Hashem gave Moshe the Torah he taught him everything that every generation would ever encounter and the solutions to it.
--- End quote ---
I apologise, and not to be rude, but that statement is not factual.
--- Quote --- That included "lights on shabbos". There is no Jewish people without the Torah,
--- End quote ---
Also, not true. Hitler did not ask if a person followed the torah, he asked if they were jewish, and killed them. Judaism is a race IMO, not a religion. Our enemies have never made this distinction, and neither will I.
--- Quote --- so if you don't follow the Torah because you don't believe it in it, then how could you believe anything it says, which includes your very Judaism?
--- End quote ---
As I mentioned above, I find religion as it is taught and practiced to be, to be polite, invalid.
--- Quote --- The point of loving G-d is following things even if you don't understand it. There doesn't have to be logic to it. Religion isn't based on logic, it's based on faith.
--- End quote ---
Spoken like a true communist, or islamist, or...
I have spent my entire life fighting totalitarianisms, where you were supposed to accept and obey some authority figure's statements "on faith."
I am afraid at this time I am unable to accept a doctrine not supported by scientific evidence. I have been, like a ship at sea, steadily moving in this direction away from organized religion for quite some time now.
While I would never wish to negatively impact or prevent others from practicing what their "faith" provides them, I simply cannot accept a religion "because someone says so."
--- Quote --- Faith can't be proven with science. To the believer, there are no questions.
--- End quote ---
There are those who believe that once you cease asking questions - meaning, you are unwilling to challenge and pursue truth - you are completely more lost than the religious here would believe me to be ;)
--- Quote --- To the non-believer there are no answers. It doesn't matter if we don't understand, we still have to follow, and THAT is TRUE faith.
--- End quote ---
No answers as presented by the religion, but it does not mean one cannot pursue and find them elsewhere.
-----------------------
Look, as I get older and face my own mortality, it is certainly infinitely more comforting to think that should I pre-decease my children (hopefully, as all parents should) I will get to see them again in some kind of after-life.
My beliefs at this point operate in a grey area, where my innate, strong desire to find an inalienable "truth" is combatted by these feelings of mortality, and will probably require many more years of thought and reflection before the 2 sides can be resolved.
--- End quote ---
So Judaism is man-made?
rhodescholar:
--- Quote ---So Judaism is man-made?
--- End quote ---
I do not see sufficient evidence at this time to prove it is or is not.
Harzel:
rhodescholar, First thing, Jewishness is defined by the Torah and not by Hitler, neither by yourself. If you speak of Judaism as a racial identity then you are not speaking about the same concept that I am speaking of, so you better come up with a new name for your concept because "Jew" etc. are already taken.
Second, regardless of whether my reasoning was factually correct, you should understand how rabbis come up with their halachic rulings- there are laws of ruling and deduction in the Talmud and every ruling is based on them. While on many issues there are opposing views, the issue of electricity on shabbat is not one of them as far as I know. All the rabbinical scholars come up with the same or similar conclusion on this particular issue. So your argument against them is invalid, unless you are going to become a Talmudic scholar and make your case using valid halachic arguments.
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