Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On Shabbat no fire?
Moshe92:
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:34:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Moshe92 on November 12, 2009, 09:32:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
--- End quote ---
Lights serve the same purpose as fires. The fact that one is building a circuit by turning on a light may also go against the rules of shabbat.
--- End quote ---
"Rules of shabbat"? What does that mean, a questioning person is supposed to be a child and just accept "that that is the way things are"?
If that is your line of reasoning, it should not be surprising that people are abandoning religion in droves...
--- End quote ---
Of course there are laws for shabbat just as there are laws for the United States.
The One and Only Mo:
Shabbat candles are lit and once they are, shabbos has started. There are candle lighting times each week. Hashem gave us laws, whether or not we understand them, we have to keep them.
Harzel:
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
--- End quote ---
Hey no one is pulling a gun at you. I am secular myself so of course I don't apply most of these rules in my life. However I do try to find out the logic behind the rules. In this particularity, the work is done by switching on electricity. It doesn't matter if you switch on a light, a TV, or Blender. By switching electricity on you create a spark. In Israel there is the additional issue of Jewish people working at the power plants and on the grid during shabbat.
My opinion is you can either believe it or not, accept it or not, but don't try to invent new rules that overtake Torah law just to make it easier for you. That's like cheating and that's what really ruins our people.
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on November 13, 2009, 03:23:39 AM ---
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
--- End quote ---
Hey no one is pulling a gun at you. I am secular myself so of course I don't apply most of these rules in my life. However I do try to find out the logic behind the rules. In this particularity, the work is done by switching on electricity. It doesn't matter if you switch on a light, a TV, or Blender. By switching electricity on you create a spark. In Israel there is the additional issue of Jewish people working at the power plants and on the grid during shabbat.
My opinion is you can either believe it or not, accept it or not, but don't try to invent new rules that overtake Torah law just to make it easier for you. That's like cheating and that's what really ruins our people.
--- End quote ---
When Hashem gave Moshe the Torah he taught him everything that every generation would ever encounter and the solutions to it. That included "lights on shabbos". There is no Jewish people without the Torah, so if you don't follow the Torah because you don't believe it in it, then how could you believe anything it says, which includes your very Judaism? The point of loving G-d is following things even if you don't understand it. There doesn't have to be logic to it. Religion isn't based on logic, it's based on faith. Faith can't be proven with science. To the believer, there are no questions. To the non-believer there are no answers. It doesn't matter if we don't understand, we still have to follow, and THAT is TRUE faith.
rhodescholar:
--- Quote --- Hey no one is pulling a gun at you. I am secular myself so of course I don't apply most of these rules in my life. However I do try to find out the logic behind the rules. In this particularity, the work is done by switching on electricity. It doesn't matter if you switch on a light, a TV, or Blender. By switching electricity on you create a spark. In Israel there is the additional issue of Jewish people working at the power plants and on the grid during shabbat.
--- End quote ---
This is factually incorrect. The flow of electricity is always on, when you plug in a lamp into the wall the electricity is already flowing into that socket, it just needs a place to go forward, there is no "spark."
--- Quote --- My opinion is you can either believe it or not, accept it or not, but don't try to invent new rules that overtake Torah law just to make it easier for you. That's like cheating and that's what really ruins our people.
--- End quote ---
I am not "inventing" new rules, it is the rabbis who are doing that, trying to apply concepts created 6,000 years ago to modern technology, they simply are no applicable.
How can one "overtake" torah law when there is no applicable law to the concept of electricity - for example, or even better, as I said above - to chemical-based lighting with no electrical circuit whatsoever?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version