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Serbs in Turkey
Kerber:
--- Quote from: Serbian_Radical_Party on November 09, 2009, 02:48:10 AM ---Ethno-filetism? I see we have a scholar type on this forum :)
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No,just an ordinary man.
--- Quote ---In your last post you talk about a lot of not relevant things.
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Everything I mentioned is relevant,but the question is have you got the point.
You should say what was irrelevant.
--- Quote ---Brother, please try to understand this subject.
We are talking about simple facts, about Serbs who were converted into something else. You are thinking to difficult. I never said that ethnicity is more important or equal to spirituality, so please do not give unnecessary lections, which I already know.
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They know that their ancestors were converted.And they know it better than you and me or any other Serb.Trust me on that.They even know who was the first to convert and when and they celebrate him as a "founding father" of their new Muslim family and someone who "connected them with G-d through Islam".
--- Quote ---I do not understand why you guys are being so difficult? Please think simply and logically. If ex-Serbs become aware of the fact that their ancestors were Orthodox Serbs, than the chance that they may return back to their original roots will increase.
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As I said ,that view is very naive.I know that in Radical Party this idea is one of the main ideas considering dr Seselj's concept of "Serbian nationalism",but again- it's naive.They know who they are...for centuries they know it.If they didn't "come back" to its roots - changed their religious views till now,where you can find justification for the statement that they are going to do that tomorrow?
Evey traitor hates the most those who were betrayed,and the history teaches us so,especially here on the Balkans.You can see it also in the case of Nikolic and Vucic against Seselj.After the treason,very soon betrayed Seselj became the main target for newly created pro-EU party and not the Government as it was till yesterday.The same case is with islamised Serbs in Bosnia and you can't change it just like that.It's naive.
--- Quote ---If these genetic Serbs of Turkey are aware of their Serbian heritage, than the claim of us, Orthodox Serbs, that Croatians and Bosniaks are assimilated Serbs will make more sense.
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OK,and what with that?Suppose that a certain small number become aware of that(which I would like),what do we get in the case of "Bosniaks"?Nothing..."Serbian propaganda and lobby caught in the net some stupid Bosniaks in Turkey and made them believe in a lie to use them against us,real descenders of Bogumils",etc...You could here those things from Bosnian Muslims as always in order to defend themselves from the truth.
--- Quote ---These people want to support our side and you are naively condemning them. This behavior is against Serbian interests!
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I'm NOT condemning them!That's not the truth.But,I'm telling that it is not possible to reconvert someone who lives in a different country ,grown in that country,made its character and the way of thinking as it is common in the country's society just with presenting them tha facts that their ancestors were Serbs.We can't do almost anything with those who KNOW who they are ,HERE in Serbia or Bosnia,in our neighborhood,so you can't expect that islamised Serbs in middle of the Islamic Turkey are going to start to reconvert to Orthodoxy after who knows how many years in Islam.That's ridiculous.Don't be naive.
Of course,I welcome the fact that there are such a people who are aware of their background and are on our side,although I'm not very familiarized what that means in practical and political way considering their views on our problems.
--- Quote ---With this behavior you will send those Serbs to members of the Bosniak lobby, which is supported by the US and EU.
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Yes,that's true.That thing is important and let's say the only thing that matters.Because,as I previously said ,you can't expect from them to return to their roots in fully.Not religiously.And that's very important,because if those start to move to Serbia and start to have a kids,tomorrow we could face with large percentage of Muslim population in Serbia and a very big chance of creating another internal conflict which could again split the nation.And we had such a situations with current Serbian Muslims in Bosnia,so let's not make the mistake twice.
--- Quote ---It surprises me that you people do not understand this.
I see that as soon as you hear the word ''Muslim'' you start to loose your logic.
Your prejudices are making you guys sometimes blind.
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I don't hate Muslims and that's not the case - starting loose my logic with the word "Muslim".But,you can't expect that majority of Serbs are going to rejoice if they think of the possibility that huge number of Muslims could come to Serbia.We do not live on Greenland and we are not Eskimos not to know what Muslim people can bring.We have a very painful history of meeting with Muslim nations,so I don't know what's so surprising to you.
I don't know how much are you aware of a certain teachings in Islamic concept,but they are not so good toward non-believers,Christians and Jews.Those certain teachings led to wars.
--- Quote ---You also are not able to separate Bosnian Muslims from other Muslims.
Not every Muslim is a Bosnian Muslims or a Albanian.
You must think about that.
Your prejudices are making you very blind sometimes.
--- End quote ---
I don't hate any Serbian in Turkey,on the contrary.I'm really glad that they preserved the knowledge who they are and I'm even more glad if they want to help in the areas where they can do it.But,if they are not willing to fully return to its roots than I also like them but only in Turkey,not in Serbia.
And once again,if you think that majority of Serbs in Turkey are going to fully return to its roots,that's naive.That's not going to happen.Those islamised Serbs in Turkey who remained Serbian only by nationality should stay in Turkey and not removing to Serbia if they do not reject the conversion that the occupier did to them.Everything else except removing is acceptable for me.
Serbian_Radical_Party:
Kerber
I agree with your last post! You said a lot of logic thinks!
It's true that converts are the most obsessed and greatest extremists.
Even among them you have exceptions.
Look at Western-Bosnia! The Muslim inhabits of Western-Bosnia cooperated with Radovan Karadzic, they were Serbian allies. They fought against Muslim extremists and did not attack Serbs. Do you know how much courage you must have to do something like that? They openly stoop up against the Bosnian Muslim Neo-Nazi regime of Sarajevo and were allies of Radovan Karadzic. Because of the Western-Bosnian Muslims the US and the EU can not claim that Radovan Karadzic attempted to exterminate Bosnian Muslims. Please think about that. The Muslims of Western-Bosnia, who wanted to remain in Yugoslavia, are the living prove that the Muslim separatists, who were supproted by the EU and US, destroyed a multyethnic society, Yugoslavia.
voo-yo:
--- Quote from: Serbian_Radical_Party on November 09, 2009, 10:07:20 AM ---Kerber
I agree with your last post! You said a lot of logic thinks!
It's true that converts are the most obsessed and greatest extremists.
Even among them you have exceptions.
Look at Western-Bosnia! The Muslim inhabits of Western-Bosnia cooperated with Radovan Karadzic, they were Serbian allies. They fought against Muslim extremists and did not attack Serbs. Do you know how much courage you must have to do something like that? They openly stoop up against the Bosnian Muslim Neo-Nazi regime of Sarajevo and were allies of Radovan Karadzic. Because of the Western-Bosnian Muslims the US and the EU can not claim that Radovan Karadzic attempted to exterminate Bosnian Muslims. Please think about that. The Muslims of Western-Bosnia, who wanted to remain in Yugoslavia, are the living prove that the Muslim separatists, who were supproted by the EU and US, destroyed a multyethnic society, Yugoslavia.
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What does this prove? That they wanted to be Serbs? Or just that they were surrounded by Serbs and had enough of the war? In any case, they were a huge minority and were beaten by Izetbegovic's army.
In present situation, I would agree to give such muslims a piece of Bosnia as their own state, but they still wouldn't be able to live in a Serbian state, and that's what Karadzic and Mladic also wanted to achieve.
Serbian_Radical_Party:
--- Quote from: voo-yo on November 09, 2009, 10:53:38 AM ---What does this prove? That they wanted to be Serbs?
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What kind of question are you asking now brother?
It proves that they did not want to joint the anti-Serb coalition. You know that.
You know how many Orthodox-Serbs have been traitors to their own nation.
These ex-Serbs of Western-Bosnia can be an example to many so called Orthodo-Serb, traitors who spread US propaganda, accusing Radovan Karadzic for everything.
So this proves my point.
Serbs who are born in the Orthodox religion can become traitors and evil.
Ex-Serbs who are raised as Muslims can be much better than so called Orthodox-Serbs, who are traitors.
For example who is better for the Serbs Fikret Abdic or Boris Tadic?
Answer is Fikret Abdic. But Fikret Abdic is Muslim, so you can not say that Muslim Serbs can not be good to Serbia. Fikret Abdic said during the war that so called Serbian concentration camps are Wester-media lies, while today many so called Orthodox Serbs claim that Radovan Karadzic tried to exterminate Muslims, what is a flagrant lies.
Fikret Abdic was raised as a Muslim, but he proved to be better for Serbia than many ''Orthodox Serbs''. So it is not true that Muslim Serbs can not be good for Serbia!
voo-yo:
--- Quote from: Serbian_Radical_Party on November 09, 2009, 12:18:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: voo-yo on November 09, 2009, 10:53:38 AM ---What does this prove? That they wanted to be Serbs?
--- End quote ---
What kind of question are you asking now brother?
It proves that they did not want to joint the anti-Serb coalition. You know that.
You know how many Orthodox-Serbs have been traitors to their own nation.
These ex-Serbs of Western-Bosnia can be an example to many so called Orthodo-Serb, traitors who spread US propaganda, accusing Radovan Karadzic for everything.
So if this proves my point.
Serbs who are born in the Orthodox religion can become traitors and evil.
Ex-Serbs who are raised as Muslims can be much better than so called Orthodox-Serbs, who are traitors.
For example who is better for the Serbs Fikret Abdic or Boris Tadic?
Answer is Fikret Abdic. But Fikret Abdic is Muslim, so you can not say that Muslim Serbs can not be good to Serbia. Fikret Abdic said during the war the so called Serbian concentration camps are Wester-media lies, while today many so called Orthodox Serbs claim that Radovan Karadzic tried to exterminate Muslims, what is a flagrant lies.
Fikret Abdic was raised as a Muslim, but he proved to be better for Serbia than many ''Orthodox Serbs''. So it is not true that Muslim Serbs can not be good for Serbia!
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This doesn't prove your point.
The fact of the matter is that they cannot be Serbs if they are muslims. I think they cannot even be friends of Serbs. Look at Cazinska Krajina now, they are against us as any other muslim in Bosnia.
I'll say it again, if they want to live with us, they must reject Islam. That's because the basic concept of Islam is in contradiction with our way of life, the Biblical truth. They mustn't be influenced by it.
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