Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

The heart of the matter, is it not?

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The One and Only Mo:
The time that we know all the answers is fast approaching.

GoIsraelGo!:
Rhodes, welcome to the Forum.

I do question why you think " This is because I view jews as a race, not a religion."

Judaism is a religion that has been around for 6 Thousand years.

Religion and race and seperate. Race is biological, and religion is a State of Mind followed by actions and good deeds

What genetics do White Jews, Black Jews, Chinese Jews and Sephardic Jews share?



                                                   Shalom - Dox 

Kahane-Was-Right BT:

--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 13, 2009, 11:17:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on November 12, 2009, 10:54:19 PM ---Even if as you say, there are quadrillions of other beings and civilizations in the universe, in no way does that disprove or mitigate the validity of the Torah or of Judaism as a religion.
--- End quote ---

Think of it this way, when native americans or other ancient, backwards cultures came into contact with earlier colonial europeans, they took their religion as a replacement for their own, because they easily were able to see how much more closely it followed reality.
--- End quote ---

Native Americans adopted christianity?  That's a new one.   What do you base that on?   Fictional works?


--- Quote --- eventually encounter other species, many of whom will no doubt be far more advanced technologically, it is quite likely that they too will show us how incorrect in our beliefs we have been.
--- End quote ---

"Quite likely?"  This is called wishful thinking on your part.   You start with the assumption that what we believe isn't true.  Then you build off that assumption by making additional assumptions, namely:  1. that billions of other species exist 2. that are more advanced than us and 3.  that they will then show up and will somehow "prove" that our beliefs are wrong.


--- Quote ---For the religion to simply mention, "there are alot of stars out there - and oh by the way, there are alot of beings living amongst them" is just too far a stretch for me to accept at this point.
--- End quote ---

You still insist that the Torah must inform us of irrelevant factoids, but here someone has pointed out that there is veiled reference to the unknown, and you say "that's a stretch."   So on the one hand, you demand that the Torah speak of these things (when there isn't really a reason to), and on the other hand, when someone points out that there is a reference to it in passing, you say that's a stretch, why would the Torah ever mention that.    You have your beliefs all twisted up in a pretzel.


--- Quote ---I mean really, you can show a man waving his hand and the ocean separates, but telling him that those points of light in the sky are other planets would be too scary for ancient people? 
--- End quote ---

Stars visible to the naked eye are planets?   That's news to any astronomer or anyone who knows anything about astronomy.   Why have you invented your own field and then come here and question Torah based on something you dreamt up?   A few of the KNOWN planets ARE actually visible in the sky depending on where a person is, which hemisphere, etc, but on the known planets in our universe there are not any known lifeforms.   But again, if there were, why is that such a problem for you?


--- Quote --- The Torah gives us an account of Creation and the origin of the universe. It gives us a set of laws and standards to live by.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Yes, in 6 days. which if true, the pc you are typing on could not exist, as the laws of physics would have to be eliminated entirely.


--- End quote ---

6 days is not meant to be taken literally according to several rishonim, chief among them the RAMBAM (Maimonides), perhaps you've heard of him.   If not, you are woefully ignorant of the sources (no offense), and you should really try learning something about Judaism before you bash everything guns blazing.


--- Quote --- It says nothing about the existence of life elsewhere in the universe. It is mute on the question of whether other universes exist.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---Was it because perhaps the human authors of the religion had no clue whatsoever about space? 
--- End quote ---

Moshe wrote the actual text from the words of G-d, so Moshe would not have known about outer space since he was an ancient man of the middle east.   As for G-d, why must G-d detail every factoid about every possible thing?  How is it relevant what is up in space?


--- Quote --- I just don't see how the probability of life elsewhere in the universe disproves anything the Torah says about how the universe was created, or the legitimacy of Judaism as a religion.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---The points I made above address this...

--- End quote ---

No, you failed rather mightily.   I suggest you learn about Judaism from an orthodox rabbi before attacking it.   And don't just go to a rabbi and say "but what about space creatures."   Learn some of the basics and then once you understand the foundations, then get into some more detailed questions.    And not all orthodox rabbis can appropriately answer your questions, unfortunately, but some can.   I will bring this matter to the attention of my rabbi who is himself a physicist (or was until he stopped teaching to become a rabbi instead).   But as it stands right now the question you are asking is very crude, akin to a primal scream, and there is not much to present him with.   Drop some of the emotional invective and refine your logic to ask better intellectual questions.

(This is of course assuming you are Jewish)

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