Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Earth at the Center of the Universe
Mifletzet:
Einstein's disciple Lincoln Barnett stated:
"We cannot feel our motion through space. Nor has any experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion".
And Albert Einstein himself stated:
"The struggle, so violent in the early days of science, between the views of Ptolemy and Copernicus would then be quite meaningless. Either CS could be used with equal justification. The two sentences, "the sun is at rest and the earth moves," or "the sun moves and the earth is at rest," would simply mean two different conventions concerning two different CS. Could we build a real relativistic physics valid in all CS; a physics in which there would be no place for absolute, but only for relative motion? This is indeed possible!".
Even the arch-atheist Bertrand Russell stated:
"Whether the Earth rotates once a day from west to east as Copernicus taught, or the heavens revolve once a day from east to west as his predecessors held, the observable phenomena will be exactly the same: a metaphysical assumption has to be made".
The simplest explanation for the zero-velocity result of the Michelson-Morley's experiment failure to detect the Earth's purported 67,000 mph velocity round the Sun is that the Earth really is stationary wrt the Aether.
So Einstein did away with the Aether and invented Relativity.
But Relativity is by definition obliged to accept geocentricity as a primus inter pares, as the Lubavitcher Rebbe stated www.yiddishkeit.org
Recent discoveries such as the 376 ohm impedance of "free" vacuum space and in quantum physics, mean that the Aether theory is back in vogue.
Either way, the Torah, Nach and Chazal's message of a stationary geocentric Earth has not been disproven.
http://galileowaswrong.com
http://www.geocentricity.com
jdl4ever:
Firstly, the Torah and Navi do not say that the earth is the center of the universe. It does not talk about this subject at all. Secondly, I am warning you for your own good (not as an insult) that you are following the evil path since you are
1. Adding to the Torah things which are not there which is one of the biggest sins.
2. Not considering that the Talmud even says that the Rabbis admitted to the Greeks after lengthy arguing that the Earth revolves around the sun.
3. Thinking that Rabbis are infallible in science which is incorrect since they were not experts in Science but were experts in the Torah.
4. You are completely lacking any rational thought. Just like it is impossible to understand the Torah without learning it first, you can not state any scientific concept that you did not study. Just like concepts must be derived from the Torah logically using the logical precepts of Rebbe Yismael, in the real world if things are proven then they are correct. And what you have stated has been PROVEN wrong countless times since hundreds of years ago. You did not study science at all but your "Rabbis" have told you that what the Lubovitcher Rebbe said must be correct so you went around the internet searching for any complementary evidence on a website written by a three year old even though you have nothing except a few esoteric quotes from unknown scientists.
Firstly, a few hundred years ago it was proven that the earth is spinning. The experiment done was the pendulum experiment. A large pendulum was hung on a beach with a needle at the bottom of the pendulum so as it swung it made a line in the sand. If the earth did not spin or move then the line should not change but you will have a single straight line. However, if the earth moved then the line would gradually change and you will have a circular pattern over 24 hours. Guess what happened? A circle was made. So it is a fact that the earth is spinning.
Again, relativity states that space time is curved and therefore there is no perfectly straight line in the universe and the Aether thing is not accepted anymore, it is outdated and disproven. And none of these things have anything to do with fact that the Earth revolves around the sun; even the disproven Aether concept (the scientists who made this up didn't even think that the earth is the center of the universe). Every scientist agrees to this, including the ones you misquote above.
Mifletzet:
The Earth was the first physical object created.
The Sun, Moon and stars were only created on the Fourth Day, to serve a pre-existing Earth.
Does it seem reasonable that the Earth, the focus of Hashem's attention, would be set spinning on the Fourth Day round an insignificant star, in a minor galaxy at the edge of the universe?
"The Earth is called ארץ from the running of the of the orbiting spheres which circle around it" (Radak Breishis 1:1).
The Tenach speaks only of the Earth's fixity. Nowhere does it attribute any diurnal or annual motion to the Earth.
Hashem writes what He means and means what He writes. When Yehoshua commanded the Sun and Moon to stand still, he did not say "Earth, stop your rotation". Hashem would not allow an error to be propagated down the centuries.
Mach's Principle shows that a universe going round the Earth every 24 hours will produce exactly the same Foucault's Pendulum, Coriolis forces, earth bulge, weather patterns etc effects as an Earth rotating in its axis every 24 hours.
Einstein taught that there is a force inside a sphere of matter that is in motion. He wrote plainly to Ernst Mach on June 25, 1913:
"If one accelerates a heavy shell of matter S, then a mass enclosed by that shell experiences an accelerative force. If one rotates the shell relative to the fixed stars about an axis going through its center, a Coriolis force arises in the interior of the shell, that is, the plane of a Foucault pendulum is dragged around." ie that according to Relativity, Foucault's Pendulum can not be used as proof of a rotating Earth!
Rabbi Kahane was a geocentrist, as was the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Maharal
Ma’aseh Tuviyah, Mateh Dan, R.Yonoson Eibeshutz, Ba’al HaTanya, R.Nachman of Breslov, Sefer Habris etc
All were familiar with the theory of Copernicus, yet rejected it in favour of the geocentricity of the Tenach and Chazal.
And since the geocentric paradigm is fully compatible with modern scientific thinking, why be hostile to it? There are numerous articles in the "B'or HaTorah" http://www.borhatorah.org
Torah & science journals on this subject.
NASA use the geocentric model for their launches. The Barr Effect, Varshni's Result, Michelson- Morley Zero Velocity Result, Airy's Failure, Star Streaming, Walls of galaxies centered on the Earth, uniformity of the microwave background etc are just some of the geocentric evidences.
"The earth is indeed the center of the universe. The distribution of quasars (powerful radio sources) in vast concentric shells distributed equally about the earth means that the Cosmological Principle (that any point in the universe is the same as any other - acentrism) will have to go. A coordinate system fixed to the earth is the preferred frame of reference in the universe; consequently both the Special and General Theory of Relativity must be abandoned for Cosmological purposes" (Astrophysics and Space Science no.43).
"The Earth is suspended at center of the universe” (Rambam, Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah 3).
jdl4ever:
Firstly, your "biblical proofs" from Genesis are no proof arn are only based on your own interpuitation and the one from the Prophets is not credible. Had there been no scientific proof that the earth goes around the sun, then it would be a valid interpuitation as the other interpuitations that state that the Earth goes around the sun. But science has proven that the later is correct so your interpuitation is no longer valid. There are dozens of possible interpuitations of the genesis account since it is written very vague and you basically can't prove anything from them. Only science can prove what interpuitation of Genesis is correct.
The first verse of the bible according to Rashi is a summary of the events of creation and is not to be taken literally that first earth was created. Also, the hebrew word Aretz can refer to the Earth or the entire universe. Heavens can refer to Olam Habah or it can refer to the atmosphere or it can refer to space. The Bible is unclear what these mean. Also the verses that state that the sun moon and the stars were created on the fourth day seem to imply to you that the earth was created before them but this is not the only way to read the Bible. Another interpuitation is that the sun, moon and stars were around first but they were only visible from the earth on the fourth day and hence their purpose were completed on that day since the bible goes out of its way to tell us that the sun and the moon separate day from night and make times and seasons. Since that was their purpose, their creation was completed when they were visible from the Earth. In fact, Rashi says that according to the Sages everything was created the first day and simply set into place later which is consistant with the big bang theory and the Zohar writes an account very similar to the big bang theory by saying creation started from a tiny speck. Plus my Rabbi told me the Talmud states that the Rabbis admitted to the Greeks that the earth moves around the sun.
Again, it was already proven that the earth goes around the sun and the earth rotates. You told me that if the earth rotates, it is still possible for the sun to rotate around the earth and it would still arotate experimentally. That is true, but you forget that it was proven in a separate experiment based on Astronomy that the Earth rotates around the Sun! Also all these scientific concepts you quote are misquoted since not one of these scientists believe the sun rotates around the earth and not one of these scientific models state that the Earth is the center of the universe. These claims are stated by people who have no clue about these theories to begin with so start saying nonsense.
Rabbi Meir Kahane didn't think the Sun goes around the Earth either and I wouldn't trust your sources which have a tendency to lie about everything. I had a lecture from one of these so called "Yeshivish experts" that tried to disprove evolution and sound all smart. Well, to someone who knew any science at all, the guy was an idiot since he didn't even know what evolution was! He thought that evolution was an old disproven theory that the Gerafe developed by stretching their necks out the eat branches and their necks stretched over time. Guess what, that is not evolution, it was an older theory that the scientists disproved a long time ago!
Maccabi:
I heard somewhere in the Torah or Talmud that it predicted the number of stars in the universe as 1 followed by 18 zeroes.
and that this was about the number arrived at by modern scientists.
Does anyone know if this is true?
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