Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Cursing another Jew is forbidden
Raulmarrio2000:
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 17, 2010, 06:40:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on January 14, 2010, 05:00:29 PM ---The blessing in the 'Amidah is not a curse, it's a prayer begging H" to save Jews from Malshinim ( a malshin is someone who either gives information about Jews endangering theirs lives, or enticing others to attack Jews). But it's forbidden to curse another Jew. It's one of the 613 mitzvot. It's also forbidden for a Noahide to use the Name to curse anybody due to the prohibition of blasphemy.
--- End quote ---
Where are you getting this from? Yes, it's a prayer that will have an effect to protect us good Jews from the traitors minim, etc, but who do you think the malshinim and enemies of Hashem etc etc are? They are also Jews and we are certainly cursing them to destruction.
--- End quote ---
Malshinim may be traitor Jews, but the blessing is intended to pray for the community to be protected from traitor Jews who give information to enemies. It's a prayer that their evil plans may come to nothing and their projects destructed. May the Malshinim have no hope. It's not intended to pray specifically for their phisical destrucction, and if it were necessary, it would only be for defense. But cursing another Jew to punish him for some evil he has already done is forbidden.
JTFenthusiast2:
Raul,
I just understood the true meaning of your name. Are you a decendent of Marrios?
Raulmarrio2000:
--- Quote from: JTFenthusiast2 on January 19, 2010, 07:10:54 PM ---Raul,
I just understood the true meaning of your name. Are you a decendent of Marrios?
--- End quote ---
What are Marrios? My Name is Raúl Mario. I mistakenly typed it with double r when I made an account, and now I use it in that way because people already know the nick.
Ulli: I believe that a Malshin ( someone who entices others to attack Jews) or Moser (someone who simply gives dangerous information about Jews) and a Rodef ( someone who attacks Jews on his own, instead of informing or enticing others) are all terms that can refer only to traitor Jews. If a Gentile did the same he would simply be an enemy since he belongs to another nation, and in case of war it's permitted to fight and even kill an enemie during war. Malshin, Moser and Rodef were declared by Ravs in order to allow Jews to take protective measures against them. There's no need of such a term for a Gentile because when a Gentile attacks he 's already at war with Israel and Jews need no rabbinical licence to fight them.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on January 19, 2010, 07:21:07 PM ---
--- Quote from: JTFenthusiast2 on January 19, 2010, 07:10:54 PM ---Raul,
I just understood the true meaning of your name. Are you a decendent of Marrios?
--- End quote ---
What are Marrios? My Name is Raúl Mario. I mistakenly typed it with double r when I made an account, and now I use it in that way because people already know the nick.
Ulli: I believe that a Malshin ( someone who entices others to attack Jews) or Moser (someone who simply gives dangerous information about Jews) and a Rodef ( someone who attacks Jews on his own, instead of informing or enticing others) are all terms that can refer only to traitor Jews. If a Gentile did the same he would simply be an enemy since he belongs to another nation, and in case of war it's permitted to fight and even kill an enemie during war. Malshin, Moser and Rodef were declared by Ravs in order to allow Jews to take protective measures against them. There's no need of such a term for a Gentile because when a Gentile attacks he 's already at war with Israel and Jews need no rabbinical licence to fight them.
--- End quote ---
I think he meant Marranos.... They are Jews who were forced to convert in Spain yet kept their Jewish ritual observance secret... Many of them were burned at the stake when neighbors ratted on them for observing Shabbat...
muman613:
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on January 19, 2010, 07:07:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kahane-Was-Right BT on January 17, 2010, 06:40:10 AM ---
--- Quote from: Raulmarrio2000 on January 14, 2010, 05:00:29 PM ---The blessing in the 'Amidah is not a curse, it's a prayer begging H" to save Jews from Malshinim ( a malshin is someone who either gives information about Jews endangering theirs lives, or enticing others to attack Jews). But it's forbidden to curse another Jew. It's one of the 613 mitzvot. It's also forbidden for a Noahide to use the Name to curse anybody due to the prohibition of blasphemy.
--- End quote ---
Where are you getting this from? Yes, it's a prayer that will have an effect to protect us good Jews from the traitors minim, etc, but who do you think the malshinim and enemies of Hashem etc etc are? They are also Jews and we are certainly cursing them to destruction.
--- End quote ---
Malshinim may be traitor Jews, but the blessing is intended to pray for the community to be protected from traitor Jews who give information to enemies. It's a prayer that their evil plans may come to nothing and their projects destructed. May the Malshinim have no hope. It's not intended to pray specifically for their phisical destrucction, and if it were necessary, it would only be for defense. But cursing another Jew to punish him for some evil he has already done is forbidden.
--- End quote ---
Can you provide a reference for your statement that cursing a heretic is forbidden?
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