Shalom 'aleikhem!

[Moshe92]

I don't think that an organization with any Nazi members can be Jewish-friendly. Nazis are Nazis. I don't care if they're "pro-white" or whatever. Jews should have absolutely no tolerance for Nazis whether or not they act politely. Also, I don't see the importance of supporting "pro-white" groups. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust were all carried out by whites.

[rhayat1]

I don't think that an organization with any Nazi members can be Jewish-friendly. Nazis are Nazis. I don't care if they're "pro-white" or whatever. Jews should have absolutely no tolerance for Nazis whether or not they act politely. Also, I don't see the importance of supporting "pro-white" groups. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust were all carried out by whites.

I'm pretty sure that the holocaust revisionist I met there is not a Nazi.  I think, if we're going to debate this issue, you should define "Nazi".  By some definitions, it could be said that the Republican Party has "Nazis".  I'm sure that AARP has Nazis and probably most branches of government.  As a matter of fact, when I was in Israel, I met plenty of Zionists who (according to my then liberal definition) I considered Nazis.  After all, they clearly showed a disdain for the darker-hued among us and seemed to favor blond hair and blue eyes.  I was witness to anti-government protests there, where the religious would repeatedly call the police "Nazis" because they were helping the government enforce its anti-Torah policies.  It seems to me that, since most Jews today are white, we should promote the interests of the white race.  Not only that, but (with obvious exceptions) we have fared better within Western societies than most other societies.  So, for the purpose of this discussion, please define what you mean by "Nazi".

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I don't think that an organization with any Nazi members can be Jewish-friendly. Nazis are Nazis. I don't care if they're "pro-white" or whatever. Jews should have absolutely no tolerance for Nazis whether or not they act politely. Also, I don't see the importance of supporting "pro-white" groups. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust were all carried out by whites.

holocaust revisionist

Yes, the new phenomenon of "new historians" who hide behind the PC or the Orwellian vocabulary, these are HOLOCAUST DENIERS who are Nazis.\
If you care about the white race (never heard of such thing) more than you care about your people - if you are even Jewish, I welcome you to get out of our Holy nation, we don't need things like you.

[hyperion]

Yes, the new phenomenon of "new historians" who hide behind the PC or the Orwellian vocabulary, these are HOLOCAUST DENIERS who are Nazis.\
If you care about the white race (never heard of such thing) more than you care about your people - if you are even Jewish, I welcome you to get out of our Holy nation, we don't need things like you.

Our greatest problem is that most people who experienced personally the Shoah died. So these rats can freely spread their poison nowadays without any serious resistance. My grandmother would often talk about Jews who were deported in Hungary on trains. They were put onto the waggons without food and water and they were crying to the passers-by to give them these things. Nobody cared. So I think Holocaust "revisionists" are very good to test IDF-s new weapons on them especially flame-throwers.

[Moshe92]

I don't think that an organization with any Nazi members can be Jewish-friendly. Nazis are Nazis. I don't care if they're "pro-white" or whatever. Jews should have absolutely no tolerance for Nazis whether or not they act politely. Also, I don't see the importance of supporting "pro-white" groups. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Holocaust were all carried out by whites.

I'm pretty sure that the holocaust revisionist I met there is not a Nazi.  I think, if we're going to debate this issue, you should define "Nazi".  By some definitions, it could be said that the Republican Party has "Nazis".  I'm sure that AARP has Nazis and probably most branches of government.  As a matter of fact, when I was in Israel, I met plenty of Zionists who (according to my then liberal definition) I considered Nazis.  After all, they clearly showed a disdain for the darker-hued among us and seemed to favor blond hair and blue eyes.  I was witness to anti-government protests there, where the religious would repeatedly call the police "Nazis" because they were helping the government enforce its anti-Torah policies.  It seems to me that, since most Jews today are white, we should promote the interests of the white race.  Not only that, but (with obvious exceptions) we have fared better within Western societies than most other societies.  So, for the purpose of this discussion, please define what you mean by "Nazi".

You know what a Nazi is. Any sane person can see that the Holocaust took place. People who deny the Holocaust just do so because of an extreme and irrational hatred for the Jews.

[Ulli]

rhayat1, of cause Nazis of western descent can have good manners. They can be educated too. But this people have caused more death and destruction in Europe than any other ideology before. They did it cold blooded and planned. If they say now, that they have not murdered milliones of Jews and other people - what could be their purpose?

Smearing the murdered people?

Offending the relatives of the victims and make them suffer?

Whitewash their murdereous ideology in order to convince people to give them a second chance?

Imo it is good, that Naziism is burned morally and that they have today only a little group of people who have in the moment no chance to come into power. We should do everything that the situation stays like it is, or better that Naziism will be exstinct completely.

[rhayat1]

Perhaps I'll dedicate a thread, in another section, to holocaust revisionism/denial.  It'll be a few days because of my work schedule though.

[JTFenthusiast2]

I'm not sure I understand your sympathies for these despicable people who share your beliefs about Blacks?  It's not advantageous for Jewish people to align ourselves with racist zealots: Black or White.  I have to say many of your posts seem to revolve around making naziesque antisemitism more seemingly palatable.  I'm not buying it and I don't think others are either.

[rhayat1]

I'm not sure I understand your sympathies for these despicable people who share your beliefs about Blacks?  It's not advantageous for Jewish people to align ourselves with racist zealots: Black or White.  I have to say many of your posts seem to revolve around making naziesque antisemitism more seemingly palatable.  I'm not buying it and I don't think others are either.

I've encountered such antisemitism in my time and I have no sympathy for such people.  However, the vast majority of Amren people are not antisemites.  This is abundantly clear to me and to many other Jews who affiliate with that group.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Rhayat,

Truly I am a live and let live kind of person, but your statements are at odds with one another.  You said you have no tolerance for nazis, but then in your previous post you state that because pro-white movements are marginalized that you do in fact, rub shoulders, with Holocaust deniers and members of StørmFrønt

[rhayat1]

Rhayat,

Truly I am a live and let live kind of person, but your statements are at odds with one another.  You said you have no tolerance for nazis, but then in your previous post you state that because pro-white movements are marginalized that you do in fact, rub shoulders, with Holocaust deniers and members of StørmFrønt

I shared the same building with Stormfronters - but never exchanged a word with them.  I also never exchanged a word with any holocaust denier.  I did, however, have a brief encounter with a holocaust revisionist.  There is a difference - though it may seem to you that they are one in the same.  It is simply not credible to me that the holocaust did not happen; I've known survivors, seen the numbers on their arms and heard their stories.  However, I see nothing wrong with challenging orthodoxy when it comes to the details of ANY historic event.  Personally, I haven't studied the holocaust for many years; I find it too painful and it gives me nightmares.  But right now, as I understand it, it is ILLEGAL to claim (in Germany) that less than six million Jews died during the holocaust.  I do not believe that the exact number - whether it was six million or five million or four million - detracts from the enormity of what happened.  I also do not believe that there is anything sacred about the number six million.  When I was a kid, they taught us that it was 5.5 million Jews who were murdered.  Furthermore, like any great tragedy, there are those who would profit from it, make political points or otherwise further their agenda.  I can understand how this might make some people upset - Jewish or gentile.  So, if a person believes he has a more accurate account of what transpired during those dark days, I say let him have his say and let's engage him politely.  If that person shows signs of hating Jews, well then that's a different matter altogether.  I have no reason to suspect that the person I spoke to harbors any ill feelings toward Jews.  If I found out otherwise, I'd stay away from him as I do the handful of Stormfronters who attended the conference.

[JTFenthusiast2]

I understand your point of view.  But in an era of such rampant anti-semitism and holocaust denial, I think this is a slippery slope.  Is it any wonder that Holocaust deniers are booming only now when most of the survivors are deceased?  I think not.

[rhayat1]

I understand your point of view.  But in an era of such rampant anti-semitism and holocaust denial, I think this is a slippery slope.  Is it any wonder that Holocaust deniers are booming only now when most of the survivors are deceased?  I think not.

I hear you and it burns me up too.  I do believe, however, that the best way to fight this battle is through rational discourse and education.  Not through threats, name-calling and intimidation - and certainly not through making martyrs of them as they do in Germany.  BTW, I'm pretty sure the worst holocaust denial is in the Arab world.  When I visited Egypt, I was in a book store and there displayed prominently for all to see, was a book titled "The Crimes of the Jews".

[JTFenthusiast2]

I think you're absolutely correct there Rhayat.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                     בס"ד

Holocaust deniers are not acceptable and illigitimate. Today, it's a fact
that at least 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. Claiming that there
has been less is denying the facts and therefore obvious hatred and conspiracism.

If you're Jewish, you should not care about "white" rights. You should only
care about your own people. If your irrational love for Whites [which is
the same as irrational love for Blacks] makes you ally yourself with Nazis,
then you're free to leave our nation.

[rhayat1]

                                                                     בס"ד

Holocaust deniers are not acceptable and illigitimate. Today, it's a fact
that at least 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. Claiming that there
has been less is denying the facts and therefore obvious hatred and conspiracism.

If you're Jewish, you should not care about "white" rights. You should only
care about your own people. If your irrational love for Whites [which is
the same as irrational love for Blacks] makes you ally yourself with Nazis,
then you're free to leave our nation.

All my life, I've taken a stand for the downtrodden.  In Israel, I was involved with Shas (the Sephardic political party) even before 'Ovadia Yosef knew about it.  I felt darker skinned Jews were downtrodden in Israel, so I took a stand.  These days, it is clear that white people are downtrodden (as a group), so this is the stand I take.  Of course I take a stand for Jews as well seeing that I am one.  I don't know where you live Ron, but I live in America - a nation founded by European whites and based upon European/white ideals.  I benefit every day from the technology invented by whites.  I rely upon the medicine developed by whites and I speak a language that was spoken by whites.  The car I drive was invented by whites and the cloths I wear.  The computer I'm typing on was invented by whites and the architecture that went into my home - which is heated by mechanisms invented by whites.  The industry I work in was invented by whites as was the currency they pay me in.  Many of those whites were also Jews; yes, it is possible to be both Jewish and white.  Hence I do not consider my admiration for whites (in general, of course) to be misplaced.  If you have a problem with white civilization, you might consider moving into a mud hut and surrendering your fate to the graces of nature.  See how that goes.

[Lisa]

Ron lives in Israel. 

[rhayat1]

Ron lives in Israel. 

Good for him.  One might bring his attention to the fact that America (and Europe) has aided Israel immensely over the years.  So a certain appreciation toward America (and Europe) is warranted I think.  Also, Israel is very much based on Western civilization.  Its people speak Hebrew with a strong European accent (as I've mentioned in another post), dress Western style, fashion their government after Western democracies and benefit from all the great things that Western civilization has to offer.  "Western" is a subset of "white" of course.  It's ironic that I, personally, prefer Mideastern culture as far as language, music, dress and cuisine.  I believe our Jewish roots go back to that.  And yet here we are...

Furthermore, although I might come across as a troll, in reality I'm just not very diplomatic at times.  I have strong opinions and I'll just blurt them out.  Nevertheless, I don't think it's appropriate to fling personal attacks or vitriol.  If Ron feels that some people are mistaken about historic facts, let him engage them in debate and let him show them the error of their ways.  He is convinced that such people simply hate Jews and this is why they question the magnitude of the holocaust.  Perhaps... but I'm curious, has Ron ever actually spoken to one of those people?  I'm not talking about holocaust DENIERS because I agree with Ron on that count.  I'm talking about revisionists.  Get to know a person.  Become familiar with their stance and attitudes and then pass judgment.  To do otherwise is prejudice and prejudice is bad.

[Moshe92]

Ron lives in Israel. 

Good for him.  One might bring his attention to the fact that America (and Europe) has aided Israel immensely over the years.  So a certain appreciation toward America (and Europe) is warranted I think.  Also, Israel is very much based on Western civilization.  Its people speak Hebrew with a strong European accent (as I've mentioned in another post), dress Western style, fashion their government after Western democracies and benefit from all the great things that Western civilization has to offer.  "Western" is a subset of "white" of course.  It's ironic that I, personally, prefer Mideastern culture as far as language, music, dress and cuisine.  I believe our Jewish roots go back to that.  And yet here we are...

Furthermore, although I might come across as a troll, in reality I'm just not very diplomatic at times.  I have strong opinions and I'll just blurt them out.  Nevertheless, I don't think it's appropriate to fling personal attacks or vitriol.  If Ron feels that some people are mistaken about historic facts, let him engage them in debate and let him show them the error of their ways.  He is convinced that such people simply hate Jews and this is why they question the magnitude of the holocaust.  Perhaps... but I'm curious, has Ron ever actually spoken to one of those people?  I'm not talking about holocaust DENIERS because I agree with Ron on that count.  I'm talking about revisionists.  Get to know a person.  Become familiar with their stance and attitudes and then pass judgment.  To do otherwise is prejudice and prejudice is bad.

American "aid" does nothing but hurt Israel. In the Six Day War, Israel fared pretty well without the help of the world. Israel owes absolutely nothing to America or any other country in the world.

As for the West, here's an interesting thread from the Hebrew forum about the topic. http://hayamin.org/forum/index.php/topic,23573.0.html

Holocaust "revisionists" are evil people who are enemies of the Jews. I would suggest avoiding them.

[rhayat1]

I think that survey question, and its options are ambiguous and confusing.  Then again, so were my statements about "Western civilization".  It's far too complex to simply ask "Is the West a friend or foe?"  In my case, I was using the term instead of the "White race" - which, in today's world, needs to develop a sense of cohesion, self-identity and solidarity (because every individual has the right to consider himself a member of an ethnicity.  To be part of a "tribe" if you will).  Otherwise, every white will be at a disadvantage at the hands all the other races which DO have such an identity.  Regarding the survey, it's confusing because one option states "they tried to physically destroy us" - obviously referring to older European nations such as Germany or the Cossacks - while another option refers to the "trash of Western culture" - clearly referring to American pop culture.  These really are two different things and it's unfortunate that they both are called "Western".  Are American pop culture and Victorian British culture really the same thing?

I stand by what I posted earlier.  Israeli culture is 90% "Western" if not more.  The only aspects of Israeli culture that are still Mideastern are a) some of the cuisine and b) some of the more negative attitudes amongst the lower classes regarding law and order.  The music is, at best, a hybrid - even what passes for "Sephardic" music.  So, if most Israelis despise "Western" culture so much, why do they emulate it?  Why is it so important to be "moderni" (a euphemism for "American/European")?  At least when I was there, the government would subsidize bread - but only Western style bread.  It would not subsidize flat bread/pita.  This should tell you something.

As for the foreign aid, I'll defer to your opinion on that.  It wouldn't surprise me.  But I have read that many of the weapons and ammo the IDF uses were manufactured in the U.S.

If I knew how I could directly type in Hebrew to the forum, I'd participate in the Hebrew section as well.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                              בס"ד

All my life, I've taken a stand for the downtrodden.  In Israel, I was involved with Shas (the Sephardic political party) even before 'Ovadia Yosef knew about it.

It's Rav Ovedia Yosef, learn your place you whitie Martin Luther Queen.

  I felt darker skinned Jews were downtrodden in Israel, so I took a stand.  These days, it is clear that white people are downtrodden (as a group), so this is the stand I take.

That was just ok [though I'm not in love with the Shas party at all], but the thing is... Whites are not neccesarily our brothers, Sephardic, Ethiopian, religious, Haredi and Russian Jews are.  

Of course I take a stand for Jews as well seeing that I am one.

It's just fine whe it's rational and moral. Fighting for "white rights" is irrelavent for Jews since we are forbbiden to even live in USA. Let me tell you something --- I'm happy that Whites generally and Jews especially are discriminated in the States. This way, more and more Jews are leaving [or at least expected to do so]
Also, there's a huge contradiction between fighting for Jews and fighting for White Neo-Nazis and all other scummy cockroaches living in the West.

I don't know where you live Ron, but I live in America - a nation founded by European whites and based upon European/white ideals.

- I don't believe in races so these words ["white", "colorful", "black" etc] mean 0 for me.
- What ideals? ideas of Crusades, barbarity, hatred for science and rationality, witch hunting, etc?
- That's a shame you live in the Galut.

  I benefit every day from the technology invented by whites.

- See above.
- Do you own a vehicle?

  I rely upon the medicine developed by whites

Which ones? The Greek developements influenced by Egyptian and Babylonian ones? The ones developed in the Caliphats?

and I speak a language that was spoken by whites.

 
It's quite funny since non-Whites [what's that?] speak it as well. In the end of the day, it doesn't matter since all languages are driven out of Hebrew.

The car I drive was invented by whites

I just hope you don't use the [censored] wheels..

and the cloths I wear.

What kinda clothes do you wear anyway?

The computer I'm typing on was invented by whites

I wanna know what is it like to invent a computer without understanding math, of which non-Whites have been experts long before White Euros knew how to preserve inventions.

  and the architecture that went into my home - which is heated by mechanisms invented by whites.

When White Euros started to do anything besides complaining about the Jews, the Musilms and the Chinese, and adopted Jewish ideas, and started to think and research --- only then their "inventions" deserved the name "invention".
What is the architecture style of your house?

  The industry I work in was invented by whites as was the currency they pay me in.

I don't think Whites would let you live too long if you had the guts to suggest to teach them what industry is in the 14th century. Non-White Muslims would love to use you as a loyal Caliphate Dhimmi and only then kill you.

  Many of those whites were also Jews; yes, it is possible to be both Jewish and white.

So is the opposite and so there is a possibility of being both Gentile and White and anti-Jewish and White.

  Hence I do not consider my admiration for whites (in general, of course) to be misplaced.

 
We have to admire only our own nation.

If you have a problem with white civilization, you might consider moving into a mud hut and surrendering your fate to the graces of nature.  See how that goes.

Just like the ones the silly little Missionary White Trash monkeys had in Southern US before the Jews came?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                             בס"ד

I think that survey question, and its options are ambiguous and confusing.  Then again, so were my statements about "Western civilization".  It's far too complex to simply ask "Is the West a friend or foe?"  In my case, I was using the term instead of the "White race" - which, in today's world, needs to develop a sense of cohesion, self-identity and solidarity (because every individual has the right to consider himself a member of an ethnicity.  To be part of a "tribe" if you will).  Otherwise, every white will be at a disadvantage at the hands all the other races which DO have such an identity.  Regarding the survey, it's confusing because one option states "they tried to physically destroy us" - obviously referring to older European nations such as Germany or the Cossacks - while another option refers to the "trash of Western culture" - clearly referring to American pop culture.  These really are two different things and it's unfortunate that they both are called "Western".  Are American pop culture and Victorian British culture really the same thing?

I stand by what I posted earlier.  Israeli culture is 90% "Western" if not more.  The only aspects of Israeli culture that are still Mideastern are a) some of the cuisine and b) some of the more negative attitudes amongst the lower classes regarding law and order.  The music is, at best, a hybrid - even what passes for "Sephardic" music.  So, if most Israelis despise "Western" culture so much, why do they emulate it?  Why is it so important to be "moderni" (a euphemism for "American/European")?  At least when I was there, the government would subsidize bread - but only Western style bread.  It would not subsidize flat bread/pita.  This should tell you something.

As for the foreign aid, I'll defer to your opinion on that.  It wouldn't surprise me.  But I have read that many of the weapons and ammo the IDF uses were manufactured in the U.S.

If I knew how I could directly type in Hebrew to the forum, I'd participate in the Hebrew section as well.

I don't see even one answer to any of the arguments posted in the link Moshe gave.

[Spectator]

                                                                              בס"ד

All my life, I've taken a stand for the downtrodden.  In Israel, I was involved with Shas (the Sephardic political party) even before 'Ovadia Yosef knew about it.

It's Rav Ovedia Yosef, learn your place you whitie Martin Luther Queen.

 

Rhayat, Ron exposed you as complete LIAR. After this you "pearl" you may also agrue that you drank beer with Abraham Lincoln.

[rhayat1]

                                                                              בס"ד

All my life, I've taken a stand for the downtrodden.  In Israel, I was involved with Shas (the Sephardic political party) even before 'Ovadia Yosef knew about it.

It's Rav Ovedia Yosef, learn your place you whitie Martin Luther Queen.

 

Rhayat, Ron exposed you as complete LIAR. After this you "pearl" you may also agrue that you drank beer with Abraham Lincoln.

It's "Ovadya Yosef" as far as I'm concerned; I owe no respect to a man who makes arbitrary rulings, though he did help me out once in a personal matter.

I'm not sure why you think I'm lying about being involved with Shas before the above individual knew about it.  At first, there were only about 30 or 40 of us at the meetings.  Before it became known as "Shas", it had a different name.  Let's see if anybody else here knows what it was.  I have some of the original fliers that sport the original name on them.  But first I'll wait to see if anybody else here knows what the original name for Shas was.  Just curious.  Oh, and Nehama Timstit, if you're still alive and reading this, a warm Derishath Shalom from Reuven!

As for Ron's response.  It seems he swallows every one of the myths the far left comes up with.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                              בס"ד

All my life, I've taken a stand for the downtrodden.  In Israel, I was involved with Shas (the Sephardic political party) even before 'Ovadia Yosef knew about it.

It's Rav Ovedia Yosef, learn your place you whitie Martin Luther Queen.

 

Rhayat, Ron exposed you as complete LIAR. After this you "pearl" you may also agrue that you drank beer with Abraham Lincoln.

It's "Ovadya Yosef" as far as I'm concerned; I owe no respect to a man who makes arbitrary rulings, though he did help me out once in a personal matter.

It's ok. I'm sure that if he ever heard about you he wouldn't the tiniest respect to you. Rav Ovadia Yosef started the Shas party along with Rav Shach.

I'm not sure why you think I'm lying about being involved with Shas before the above individual knew about it.  At first, there were only about 30 or 40 of us at the meetings.  Before it became known as "Shas", it had a different name.  Let's see if anybody else here knows what it was.  I have some of the original fliers that sport the original name on them.  But first I'll wait to see if anybody else here knows what the original name for Shas was.  Just curious.  Oh, and Nehama Timstit, if you're still alive and reading this, a warm Derishath Shalom from Reuven!

התאחדות הספרדים העולמית שומרי תורה.

As for Ron's response.  It seems he swallows every one of the myths the far left comes up with.

Let's see you living in Middle Aged Europa; you'd be missing the "barbaric primative" Mid East.